Discussion in 'Pop & Justice' started by truman, Sep 7, 2014.
What do you mean? That she got involved with a married man?
I did not expect this to peak at #1 but #2 is still great. I thought she might have missed the top three. However, I see this album having a short run inside the top 100.
Yes. I personally don't give a fuck but that did not go down well. If you ever read popular black blogs or forums she's still kind of disliked because of it. She started off with a certain image singing songs like Karma so then to turn around and get involved in something like that felt like her image was a bit disingenuous. That is brought up along with her screetchy ass vocals a lot. *giggles*
Damn Alicia. That is news to me!
I'm really surprised you lot don't like this. I think it's quite amazing. Definitely better than Girl On Fire
There is no doubt. It is not even close, GoF was a mess.
Remember when Alicia Keys thought she'd go all (BA) in Philosophy and pose the question: if an album drops and no-one is around to buy it, has the album really dropped at all?
Well, to honour our newly qualified philosophical Princess of pop-minded R&B I was wondering: would (m)any of you be interested in an Alicia Keys discography rate in the 'Charts, rates etc' sub-forum?
@scottdisick94 @Whisky87 @londonrain @KingBruno @VicePresidentJocasta @Mr.Arroz @Consideration @RainOnFire @2014 @ basically anyone else who likes or indeed used to like Alicia's output - are there enough of us to make this a worthwhile endeavour? Let me know!
P.S. As I don't want to bump this for completely off-topic reasons: I would agree that HERE is not a particularly inspired effort but I do think it's en vogue to dismiss Alicia entirely these days when there are parts of this album which deserve more attention. 'Pawn It All' and the run from 'Blended Family (What You Do For Love)' to the end of the international edition are all varying degrees of great to my ears.
The album isn't as poor as I thought it was on first listen, but I think the difficulty is that we know she is capable of so much better.
And yes, I'd definitely be up for an Alicia discography rate.
Forgive me, for I do sort of understand where you're coming from but - I never truly get it when the criticism of a new thing is just 'oh but this person has done so much better!'. I mean, you could extend that logic to the discography of every artist in history and ultimately compact each act to one measly album, right? So why not listen for what does work this time instead of what you think has been done better? I don't even disagree with you; I do think Alicia has albums superior to HERE (though I don't think it's her weakest) but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the tracks I do think are decent on it. Unless you honestly just think these are the 18 worst tracks of her career hitherto?
Wonderful, thanks for the reply.
Here isn't one of my favourite albums of the year - it's not even my favourite R&B album of the year. It's a decent album, but it's not amazing, and none of the singles stand out to me as being a great song that I would recommend to a friend. If I had never heard of Alicia before, this would not mark her out for me as an artist to follow.
As a separate point: every album Alicia has released before has been among my favourite albums of that year (and has often my favourite or second-favourite R&B album of that year). This is why I'm a fan, and why I have bought every studio album she's released (including Here). So I do have some difficulty with Here, because I feel I should give it more of a chance, but nothing I have heard has really given me any reason to deserve it.
But I'm not saying it's mediocre because she's done better. (1) It's mediocre and (2) she has done better.
Right, thanks for the clarification. Still though, as "she has done better" is an entirely subjective stance to take on this (and one with which, as I mentioned before, I concur) I can only really respond to your first point: "It's mediocre". If I might ask, why do you think it's mediocre? Do you not like the lyrics? The melodies? Too little piano? Think her voice isn't sounding as good as usual? All are criticisms I've heard for HERE, and (to varying degrees) I can understand them all, but if all someone gives you to work with is "It's mediocre" then... what are you supposed to say back?
This is always the problem with opinions about music, though - I say it's mediocre because to me it doesn't jump out and claim a place as an album I would like to go back to, not because it fails some set of objective criteria for greatness. There are plenty of good songs on it, and I don't mind listening to the album, but there isn't a single track on it which makes me think "Wow, the vocal on that part just goes OFF" or "The lyrics on this really connect with me at this point in my life" or "I love the piano riff on this".
Your opinion is as valid as mine, so I don't want to convince you that it's mediocre if you don't think it is. If it connects with you, that's great. In comparison to her previous work, I do think there's too little piano, the melodies aren't as catchy as I'd like, and none of the vocals are particularly outstanding. I don't dislike it, and I don't know if those are the reasons that other people have for disliking it, but it's not what I'd consider a really great album.
We're of the same opinion, of course, that "Your opinion is as valid is mine" - I certainly wouldn't want to give you the impression that I'm attempting to convert you or undermine your views but - well, were your opening sentence true there would be (essentially) no point to this whole forum, right? You actually go on to disprove your initial position anyway by listing some of the tangible things which you don't like, presumably some of which come together to give a fair view of why you find the album "mediocre". The notion that ideas and opinions pertaining to music are somehow indecipherable or impossible to articulate (and not just via "some set of objective criteria for greatness") seems totally alien to me. As you've probably noticed though, I am fairly loquacious.
Anyway, I really don't want to lose sight of why I bumped this in the first place - needless to say, should the rate garner enough support I daresay I'll come to have a better understanding of your feelings towards Alicia's music soon enough!
@D.F.P. I'm fully into the idea of having an Alicia Keys discography rate!
I already know what would get my 11 but there's so many 10s too!
And Here is not that bad, just disappointing after the brilliance of In Common.
I picked up Here today in HMV for a fiver, so that means I now have all her albums and would definitely be interested in taking part in an Alicia rate.
I might be interested in doing an Alicia rate, if for no other reason than it might encourage me to finally listen to Here.
Given that I used to buy her albums on the day of release, the fact that I haven't already probably tells its own story.
Yeah, I found it for 50p in a charity shop years ago, so it's around somewhere!
Thanks for replying @KingBruno , @2014 , @Eric Generic and @Mike - your interest in an Alicia rate has been duly noted. Please feel free to ask other members you know are keen on Alicia's music whether or not they'd be interested; I fear as a new member the length to which my 'extensive research' could reach was merely looking back to see who commented positively in this very thread...
How about you @Vasilios , do you care for much of Alicia's stuff?
Separate names with a comma.