Discussion in 'TV + Film' started by rav4boy, Apr 5, 2017.
Graduation Day is losing one of it's parts.
Afraid so- and it's the better part...
No. 9- Graduation Day, Part 1!
A brilliant episode, with so many top quality Buffy moments which this incredible season was building up to. Naturally, the showdown between Buffy and Faith is a big draw:
@Lost In Japan. (9.5): "A lot of ramp up to the big events of Part Two, but that final fight between Buffy and Faith is such a great moment."
@sfmartin (10): “you killed me” “Brilliant set up. Electrifying showdown between Buffy and Faith.”
@unnameable (10): "Faith is on top form once again."
@AstronautMikeDexter (9): "When I was choosing my top 25 episodes, I put Part 2 but not Part 1 and I’m wondering now if that was the right choice. The build-up in this episode is great, from Faith shooting Angel with the poison arrow to Buffy stabbing Faith – it was all top notch."
Not only is that confrontation a huge deal, but also that of the Mayor with the scoobies. Mayor Wilkins’ almost calm ‘I’m gonna eat her’ is incredibly chilling:
@New Flame (9): "Many classic moments, raising the stakes. The Mayor showing up in the library, Giles stabbing him, Faith with a bow, Buffy vs Faith, people saying goodbye to high school. I’m happy Buffy won and the drama of the leap of Faith! Like a cat, she fell in the litter box. Vitamin C’s Graduation (Friends Forever) could be the perfect soundtrack."
@vague (10): "Typically for Buffy, I find the second half of the big two-parters to be the superior episodes, but I love both of these episodes almost equally. Part 1 just barely takes the cake for me, though, and that's all down to the amazingly brutal fight between Buffy and Faith. The whole season has led to this confrontation and, boy, does it deliver. I also adore the moment when Giles just loses it and stabs Mayor Wilkins after he promises to eat Buffy... just awesome."
@DJHazey (10) nails Buffy’s predicament in this episode. Yes she is fearful, almost anxious in the run up to the big fight- but it really isn’t because of what Faith might do to her. Buffy is more worried about what she has to do to Faith:
“This was the slightly better part of the finale for me because Buffy and Faith's fight felt like a finale piece. Everything from Faith's arrival to "Bad Girls" to "Enemies" has all been building up to this battle. You can see how it wears on Buffy emotionally as she not only gives everything she has to save Angel's life, but is also trying to figure herself out at the same time.”
When you peel back the layers in the episode, looking beyond the fight to the death and everything else, there’s also some fantastic character moments too:
@Presibrent (10): "If my graduation day was anything like this I would’ve dropped dead. Buffy telling Wesley that she’s quitting the council was amazing. “This is my graduation.” The fight between her and Faith was great, and Faith congratulating Buffy on finally becoming like her, only to fall into that truck, leaving Buffy to sacrifice herself for Angel. That slow-mo fall when he’s sucking her blood, wow."
For such a memorable episode, this one was surprisingly bereft of commentary, which surprised me as, for me, this is superior to its successor. Part 1 has the climax between Buffy and Faith which has been pretty much building ever since Faith arrived at Sunnydale. It’s less predictable than the fight with the Mayor- it was fairly obvious that that was going to be a huge battle, resolved with the students bandying together (a pretty big hint dropped during the Class Protector presentation in The Prom). It was less obvious why Buffy would eventually have to put an end to Faith- would she kill her? Why? Would Faith surrender? Not likely. It had to be a one-on-one fight, which proved once and for all that Buffy was the better slayer. Not because she’s a superior fighter (I don’t think she is), but because she has more heart and handles her emotions better.
Part 1 also has one of the funniest lines in the series, delivered by Xander (“The suspense is killing Angel”)- he also gets to claim an equally funny line in Part 2... Throw in some Anya, some slight bickering between Oz and Willow (“Do you wanna drive?”) and it’s an altogether fantastic episode.
Highest scorer: Me, @unnameable , @Robsolete , @sfmartin , @playboy69 , @Spiderwebs , @vague
DJHazey's Dad, @DJHazey , @GhettoPrincess , @Presibrent , @Shockbox , @Mikl C , @ladylloyd , @silkandskin (all 10)
Lowest scorer: @Animalia 6.5
Rest of the scores: @Maria 8, @BTG 8, @LPMA 7, @VicePresidentJocasta 9, @SushiJoe 9, @P'NutButter 7, @Joe. 8, @One Stop Candy Shop 8, @Hudweiser 8, @New Flame 9, DJHazey's Mom, @Lost In Japan. 9.5, @Asmgz 9, @kalonite 7, @JamesJupiter 8.5, @AstronautMikeDexter 9
Mostly very strong scores as we are nearing the end!
So where will Part 2 bow out? And what will be the next season to completely fall?
Another elimination coming in a few hours...
Hmm Part 2 should've gone before Part 1. That Buffy & Faith fight was good.
Absolute classic Buffy moment. A lot better and darker than part 2 although both parts are amazing.
Yikes! Part 1 is definitely better than part 2.
Wow, how did Part 2 beat Part 1? Finale effect I guess. Part 2 is a great episode, don't get me wrong, but it feels a bit like you know how things will play out as you're watching it. Part 1 just had all of the real drama.
The fight between Buffy and Faith in part 1 is one of my favourite moments ever in the show.
I genuinely felt scared for Buffy when I first watched it. "Is he dead yet?" proved what an actual bitch Faith had become!
Someone's 11 is about to go...
And it was very nearly my 11 up until I started collecting scores. This is a fantastic episode, though it has probably done very well to get as far as it has, seeing as it's another Season 3 fan-pleaser.
That involves Vamp Willow.
What's it gonna be? The Wish? Or Doppelgangland?...
Yes, Bitch! indeed! I'm pissed off that this didn't beat The Wish!
No. 8- Doppelgangland!
@One Stop Candy Shop: “When the gang thinks their Willow had died and became a vampire: excellent comedy!”
Several of Vamp Willow’s lines get quoted, making this one of the more iconic Buffy episodes:
@DJHazey - "Bored now." “Vampire Willow's return is brilliantly done and the amount of foreshadowing is off the charts here. Willows wrestling with an evil version of herself...when will we see that again? (The sexual advances of VW hint at Willow's coming out) Alyson really shines in both roles. It's also the first time we see Anya struggling without her powers, which makes her fans immediately start to have feelings for her.”
@AstronautMikeDexter : “And I think I’m kinda gay.” “Same, girl.”
@sfmartin : “And I think I’m kinda gay” “People often prefer this to the wish but although brilliant I prefer the former. Vamp Willow is a hoot. Alyson is amazing in it.”
@New Flame : “The plot is slightly a stretch and it’s clear everyone wanted vamp Willow back, regardless how. Everybody being relieved Willow didn’t actually died is a funny moment. Shout out to fellow Belgians K’s Choice singing ‘Virgin State Of Mind’, one of the better atmospheric songs appearing on the show. Interestingly, Sarah Bettens, the lead singer, is also gay, just like vamp Willow and (real) Willow.
@vague proves that, despite years of me thinking I’m a huge Buffy stan, I’m actually a bit of a flop fan, given how I massively overlooked this very clever allusion to how Buffy is a better slayer than Faith for more simpler reasons:
“In a show so full of wonderful characters (and Xander), Anya is my very favorite and it's great to see her again here. Even without Anya, I would still adore this episode, though, 'cause it's just so funny. The whole sequence of Willow as Vampire Willow cracks me up every single time I watch this episode (which is a lot). I also love the callback/contrast to Faith staking Allan Finch in Bad Girls: while Faith isn't able to (or maybe isn't willing to) stop in time to prevent Allan's death, in this episode, in similar circumstances, Buffy is able to stop herself from staking Vampire Willow. Maybe Buffy has just had more time to hone her reflexes, but I think there's more to it... Faith's whole outlook since appearing has been that she can only trust and rely on herself, so when Buffy yells out to stop, Faith can't because she doesn't fully trust her. Buffy, however, completely trusts Willow and relies on her insights often, so she is able to stop herself in time. But anyway, yes, this episode is comedy gold.”
@Asmgz : “Perfect fan service. A funny and action-packed episode. It’s great fun to witness sweet Willow’s very willow-y rebellion. Also the “kinda gay” line has to be classic by now. Even Angel get’s his funny moment, when he tells the scoobies about Willows “demise”. The non-fatal conclusion in Sunnydale has a nice human touch, although, in typical Buffy-fashion, the period of grace doesn’t last too long.”
@unnameable : “When this show was on, my friends used to have a pub question – who is sexier, good Willow or evil Willow? This episode made it clear this was a trick question – the real answer is good Willow in her evil twin’s costume. It also showed why Alyson was going to go on to become a comedy star.”
Although this is known to be a favourite amongst cast and crew, some of you aren’t so convinced:
@Presibrent : “Not one of my all-time favorites but I enjoyed Vamp Willow masquerading as regular Willow and Buffy thinking that Willow had been killed and turned.”
Though, thankfully, it did garner the 11 from Hud, which I cruelly denied it at the last minute:
@Hudweiser : “Willow was always my favourite and this episode pans out just perfectly, from Anya's meeting with D'Hoffryn, Xander calling Willow Old Faithful and Old Yeller, Buffy saying she has "a really dumb idea" - it's literally flawless.”
I ALWAYS thought I’d end up giving this episode my 11, ever since I first had the idea of doing an episode rate for Buffy. How could you not love it?! The comedy is gold. You have the misunderstanding then relief that Willow is actually alive, resulting in “Hey, you all didn’t happen to do a bunch of drugs did ya?”
Willow trying her best to act both sexy and menacing, though failing miserably due to her innate charm, which she promptly shrugs off for Anya “Why don’t we start with her!” There’s also Vamp Willow being generally brilliant – “Bitch!”- and Wesley and being Wesley (well, season 3 of Buffy Wesley). What really makes this an exceptional episode for me is how tight the Scoobies come across at this point- we even get some nicer interplay between Oz and Angel- and also Alyson Hannigan essentially playing 4 different roles. You have Willow, Vamp Willow, then Vamp Willow pretending to be Willow (“I like books.. cos I’m shy”)
and Willow pretending to be Vamp Willow (running her hand through someone’s hair then getting it caught!).
But where will it's predecessor end up?...
Score: 289 (SO close to Graduation Day Part 1!)
Me: 10, @Maria 8, @BTG 10, @LPMA 9, @VicePresidentJocasta 9, @silkandskin 10, @ladylloyd 8, @SushiJoe 8, @P'NutButter 9, @Mikl C 8.5, @Shockbox 10, @Joe. 10, @One Stop Candy Shop 9, @Hudweiser 11, @Presibrent 8.5, @GhettoPrincess 10, @DJHazey 9, @New Flame 8, DJHazey's Dad: 9, DJHazey's Mom: 7, @Lost In Japan. 10, @Asmgz 10, @vague 9, @Spiderwebs 9, @playboy69 6, @sfmartin 10, @Robsolete 9.5, @Animalia 8.5, @kalonite 8.5, @unnameable 10, @JamesJupiter 9, @AstronautMikeDexter 8.5
Highest scorer: @Hudweiser
Lowest scorer: @playboy69
The next elimination will see the fall of another season... Does this mean Becoming Part 2 is going to drop? Maybe Hush is about to go? There's also The Gift or Once More, With Feeling. (One of these episodes shocked me with how popular it is!!!).
Giles: "She truly was the finest of all of us"
Xander: "Way better than me"
Giles: "(pauses) much, much better"
Probably one of the funniest moments on the show. Also, Cordelia going on to vamp Willow in the book cage is hilarious.
Hoping my 11 isn't going to be the next one out, I was rooting for it to make Top 5.
Dopplegangland is good but I don't really like Willow so it was too much of her.
The Wish needs to do one
Another elimination in 2 hours time- and it marks the fall of another season...
A season is about to fall. Will it be the episode where Willow suddenly finds her magical voice?
Will it be the episode where everyone loses their voice? Or will it be the episode where everyone suddenly finds their singing voice?
No. 7- Once More, With Feeling!
What we Brits refer to as 'Marmite'- something you either love or hate. I had a feeling this may be one of those episodes, crashing out around the 20 mark, but no- those of you who don't love it can still appreciate the creativity behind it.
And there are, understandably, plenty of fans who love it:
@One Stop Candy Shop straight away references the moment that first told me I’d love this episode: "She's not even half the girl she... ouw!!" "This is a top tier Buffy episode, with great songs especially for a tv musical."
@vague is not feeling the love: "I feel like this is near blasphemous to admit, but I just don't like this episode very much. I mean, the Scoobies finally finding out they ripped Buffy out of heaven is absolutely heartbreaking, but the musical aspect just turns me off ("Walk Through The Fire" is amazing, though)."
@VicePresidentJocasta : "Another episode that was vying for my 11. Many shows have attempted musical episodes since, but not have come close (Grey’s Anatomy, what were you thinking?). Not only do I love the episode, but the soundtrack itself is an incredible feat."
@Lost In Japan. : "Buffy Summers, Big Pop Girl is truly iconic. It’s not my all-time favourite episode but I can see why it’s the episode most often brought up when people talk about the show - it was a massive risk and it completely paid off, as it’s well written and well put together throughout. Full of bops, particularly Going Through the Motions and Walk Through the Fire."
@New Flame : "I have the cd. It loses 1 point for stretching the plot, just to have a musical, but most of the songs work. Buffy, Tara and Giles are the best at singing. Willow not so much."
@Asmgz gives an extremely reasoned bit of commentary, proving that, whilst you might not fall for the musical oeuvre, it’s still a great piece of television : "Not *as* in love with this as the rest of the world, although it is definitely an astounding achievement in television for this time (and for network tv)! I just never could completely shake the feeling that it was a bit gimmicky in way of topping the likes of “hush” and “the body”. However, it still is masterfully executed and gives everyone the perfect (genre of) song specific to their character and journey.
Highlights: - Tara’s and Giles’ solo performances as well as their joint reprise, which moves the plot along perfectly, especially in Tara’s case, where it inverts the original meaning of her song, in relation to her sad new discovery. - Xander and Anya still quite the adorable couple in their very in-character song"
@sfmartin : "Definite contender for my 11, the songs are so good. Absolutely incredible piece of television."
@DJHazey : "I'm....not really a big fan of musicals. That's not to say I hate them, I've just never really been exposed to many and have never really gone out of my way to get into them. This was a different story though because of my connection to the characters and what they were signing about. My parents and I had absolutely no clue what we were walking into when we first watched this. It was seriously a "wait a minute...is this entire episode a musical?" We could not believe what we were seeing. We didn't have the benefit of seeing a teaser on TV. My Mom and Dad are much bigger fans of the genre so saying that they were "getting their life" would be a severe understatement. I'm guessing that they'll both give this an 11. The over-arching theme of the Scooby Gang confessing their secrets puts it over the top, with the exclamation point being Buffy finally revealing to everyone that she had been taken from heaven, not hell. When this song started, I was sold that I would love this musical forever:
@Presibrent : "Who doesn’t love the musical episode? Walk Through the Fire is such a jam. So is Rest in Peace. The fact that it also moved the plot along and Buffy revealed that she was torn out of Heaven was a masterclass in storytelling."
@Hudweiser : "Great idea, not great songs."
@Joe. : "Controversial, but I don't think this has aged very well compared to other classic episodes. It gets marks for sheer inventive ambition of course, but overall I find it quite messy, and I get especially annoyed at how out of sync Xander and Anya's dancing is during 'I'll Never Tell'."
@AstronautMikeDexter causes a fair bit of controversy to say the least, though I respect him for clearly sticking to his guns:
"I would love for someone to explain to me why this episode is so good. Actually, no I wouldn’t because whatever is said would be a lie and I don’t have time for that. I mean, certainly it’s not the singing that people love about this episode because that leaves a lot to be desired. It can’t be the songs because they’re terrible. The dancing? I’d rather watch “The Femme Fatale Tour.” The only redeeming part of this episode, which would have worked without the terrible music, is Buffy revealing to everyone that she was in Heaven. Other than that, the episode feels like Hell to me."
I'd never want Buffy to be remembered mainly for a musical episode, as it's so much more, as a show, than that. That's not to say that Once More, With Feeling isn't a great episode. It's exceptional. The music, lyrics, choreography, the tiny little touches of humour (even the Mutant Enemy has me in stitches)- it's incredible. Just not my favourite episode.
I for one thought it was a stroke of genius to have Buffy reveal to her friends her real predicament through song. Such a powerful moment had to be delivered exactly right- what better way then than to do it when everyone's revealing their inner most thoughts and feelings. A nice rug-from-under-their-feet moment amidst all the dancing and fireworks.
Oh, and 'I think this line's mostly filler' and ALL of Going Through The Motions is without doubt my favourite part of the entire season 6.
Me: 10, @Maria 10, @BTG 10, @LPMA 10, @VicePresidentJocasta 10, @ladylloyd 10, @SushiJoe 10, @P'NutButter 10, @Mikl C 10, @Shockbox 10, @Joe. 8, @One Stop Candy Shop 10, @Hudweiser 8, @Presibrent 10, @GhettoPrincess 11, @DJHazey 10, @New Flame 9, DJHazey's Dad: 11, DJHazey's Mom: 11, @Lost In Japan. 10, @Asmgz 9.5,
@vague 6.5, @Spiderwebs 2, @playboy69 8, @sfmartin 10, @Robsolete 10, @Animalia 8, @kalonite 10, @unnameable 10, @JamesJupiter 10, @AstronautMikeDexter 1
Lowest scorer: @AstronautMikeDexter
Highest scorers: @GhettoPrincess , DJHazey's Mom, DJHazey's Dad
Write up for season 6 will be coming up as soon as, plus there'll be another elimination...
Not even Top 5? I'm disgusted with you all now. @DJHazey's parents, you can stay. @AstronautMikeDexter please sashay away.
I'm rooting for The Gift or Hush now.
Did I not give Once More a score? I'm not mad at it falling now though, as whilst it's undeniably a fantastic episode, it's referenced more than more deserving and representative episodes of the show.
I think The Gift is gonna take this...
Ah sorry- you gave it a 10 and it's part of the overall score, just missed it in the write up. Will add now- sorry x
@AstronautMikeDexter ....a fucking 1?
Separate names with a comma.