Discussion in 'Charts, rates etc' started by Ironheade, Mar 3, 2018.
Surely everyone knows the Stevie Wonder song because of 'Gangsta's Paradise'?
You know that's going to leave at like #26.
For reasons unknown I have Shawn Mullins' follow up single What is Life, which is actually a bop. I'd never heard Lullaby before this rate.
Not sure if my memory serves me well, but this was also in the 00's #1's and was butchered hard.
I'm showing my age again.
Funny how All Star became famous for being featured in a movie that wasn't the one who was originally written for.
Besides Aimee Mann's Wise Up, does anyone know other cases like that?
For a moment there I thought you were talking about this... which didn't seem quite right
Unchained Melody is probably the most famous example. It's literally named after the film it was in, and yet it's probably best known nowadays as the song from Ghost.
I actually don't even like Shrek.
I didn't even stan All Star for its inclusion in Shrek.
So, it seems people are afraid that a rap song might go soon...
Well, a rap song is going. But you made a good choice as to which one it should be!
80. Can't Nobody Hold Me Down - Puff Daddy feat. Mase
Highest scores: 1 x 9.5 (@KingBruno )
Lowest scores: 6 x 0 (@Mina , @londonrain , @ohnoitisnathan , @Rooneyboy , @Filippa , @Spiral )
Weeks at #1: 6 consecutive Hot 100
Year-End Hot 100: #5 (1997)
There is almost nobody in hip-hop that I respect less than Sean Combs. Not just the way he likes to trot out Biggie's corpse and make it dance on a string, though God knows that's bad enough. And not just his lack of any mic skills, irritating ad-libs, and stupid dance moves. No, it's more the way that he blatantly only cares about making money and not for any kind of art, mostly by ripping off huge hits of the past note for note, putting them over soft and toothless production, and blathering inanities about money over them. And the worst part is that it was influential. So many of the East Coast rappers who got popular within the next few years were stuck with that kind of sound, and as a result, most mainstream hip-hop in the late 90's ended up so watered-down it was embarrassing. Say what you will about Vanilla Ice or MC Hammer or whoever; at least they weren't actively damaging to an entire genre.
I rated all the Will Smith songs higher than either of his songs in here. Let that sink in.
Anyway, onto “Can't Nobody Hold Me Down”, the first big single that broke Puff Daddy as a solo artist in his own right. And as a rapper, Puff Daddy sucks. Lil Pump would kick his ass in a rap battle. He's got no flow and always seems just on the verge of falling off the beat, barely rhymes a lot of the time, and his command of the mic is weak as hell, especially with that slurred lazy delivery of his. His lyrics don't help either, pretty much epitomizing what was so bad about this kind of “shiny suit” or “jiggy” rap; take the “mafioso” rap of earlier in the decade, but make it completely edgeless and don't bother with the compelling stories of organized crime, the result being that pretty much all the lyrics are the same insipid drivel about being rich and how great having money is, witlessly delivered and lacking in any lines that catch the ear. Mase is a bit better in terms of flow – barely – but his lyrics are still the same crap as his mentor's, and his irritating slack-jawed mumble gets pretty infuriating to listen to after a while, because it sounds like he couldn't even be bothered to put any energy into his performance. I hate this bored delivery shit in hip-hop, by the way. If the rappers can't even sound like they're invested in what they're saying, then why should I be? (Oh yeah, and then there's the infamous “money hanging out the anus”. I dunno. It's a wack line for sure, but I've heard worse lines from better rappers, so whatever.)
And of course there's a blatantly obvious sample from a hit 80's pop song! This time, it's Matthew Wilder's “Break My Stride” that gets interpolated for the chorus. Honestly, that's not totally offensive on its own, even with Puff's crappy singing. But why rip off one big 80's hit, when you can rip off two? Because, yeah, the beat is pretty much a straight clone of Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five's “The Message”, just at a slower tempo. I'm not sure I like the idea of them using a heartfelt song about growing up in poverty in the ghetto to brag about being rich, I don't know why Puff thinks he's earned the right to spit over one of the most iconic hip-hop beats of all time, and on a purely musical level, it doesn't work either. Part of what makes “The Message” the all-time classic that it is is that it's tight-wound and tense, with its jittery funk synthesizers and nervy staccato lead lines, which sound just as agitated as Melle Mel's rapping, all of it coming together into a perfect portrait of a man worn down by his circumstances and about to snap; don't push him, cause he's close to the edge. When the instruments are slowed down and layered over one of the laid-back, overly soft rhythm tracks that plague jiggy rap, the synths retain a bit of their tension and bite, but they also sound out-of-place. (And yet, compared to the other Puff Daddy song here, it looks like Madvillainy in terms of creative sampling...) Well, "Can't Nobody Hold Me Down" is far from the worst that I've heard Puff fart out, and the bouncy beat is sort of fun for a while, plus the synths from “The Message” are good enough that I guess you can't ruin them entirely. Hence, I let it off easy with a 3.75. But, no. I'd rather not listen to it again.
japanbonustrack (6) - Not very good.
Hudweiser (3) - I've already forgotten this.
unnameable (7) - Doesn’t age too badly. (I beg to differ.)
Mike (6.5) - As always, Puff Daddy's terrible rapping lets the side down. (Hey, that's not really fair. We can't forget Mase's terrible rapping!)
iheartpoptarts (5) - I lowkey ironically stan Puff Daddy sounding forever bored. (He sounds about as bored as I am. - Ed.) ‘Break My Stride’ is a massive bop though.
Rooneyboy (0) - He sounds so half arsed and nonchalant. Barely scraped any energy but he knew this would sell well. Pants. (See, that's just what I meant earlier!)
A$AP Robbie (4) - I don't mind a fair whack of Puffy's output but this never outgrows its sample.
Sprockrooster (8) - Great sample use. Yes.
əʊæ (4.5) - The score would be higher, if the interpolation (is that what it's called? we just don't know) (That is what it's called! - Ed.) was longer.
WowWowWowWow (7) - Is Matthew Wilder still alive? I hope he got a big paycheck for this. BIG. (Indeed he is. And I hope so, too... at least some good would come of it.)
berserkboi (6.5) - Great beat, cringey lyrics. (Speaking of which...)
londonrain (0) - I never liked this tuneless desecration of Break My Stride in the first place, and my later discovery of the "money hanging out the anus" line has not improved my opinion of it. Both Puff Daddy and Mase have done so much better, but this trash deserves to leave first. (Close enough!)
Blond (8) - The Message is such a bop that this is one by default.
DJHazey (4) - That GTA Vice City's 'Wild Style' radio station is all over this with those Grand Master Flash and The Furious Five instrumentals and sampling in the chorus, but that's where the truly memorable qualities end. It was just a little too monotone and uninspired sounding for me, so I completely forgot about it. Didn't even realize this was Puff Daddy's actual debut. (Pretty good station, that. I wish it played this a bit less though.)
Filippa (0) - This is ruining Grandmaster Flash's masterpiece, so no thank you. (Broken samples everywhere. People pissing on the song, you know they just don't care.)
K94 (3) - How anyone can make The Message sound lethargic is beyond me. (Well, you see, if a child is born with no state of mind...)
Ray (1) - This makes ‘The Ketchup Song’ sound respectable. That 1 is for the samples. Or more precisely 8 is for the samples, and -7 for what has been done to them. (Well, hey. Matthew Wilder's involved with another song in this rate, so let's see if he can make up for it there!)
Empty Shoebox (1) - Another hip-hop record heavily relying on sampling? There's some really horrible parts in here where they try to sing the original, and they just can't. Makes me wonder how I keep from going under.
Uh huh huh, huh, huh.
I.....don’t know why I gave this a 7 hahaha.
The sample thing is always an interesting gamble. Perhaps you do something inventive and interesting with the sample, that doesn’t detract from the original in any way. Win! However if the song is so dear that it should never have been sampled in the first place, or you turn it into a turd (like Puffy did here), you run the risk of ruining the whole thing.
Like, objectively I know this song below is a hot mess, but it doesn’t really take anything away from the original for me, so I don’t really mind it? Whereas the Puffy song feels like a crime? Obviously this isn’t a sample, it’s a cover, but we’re talking the same source material.
Also commiserations to anyone on #TeamAnus
OH EM GEE I TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT THAT LIL’ TIDBIT!!!
Thank goodness the second worst duet of the rate is out. Now let’s leave Céline be until the top 15, shall we? I can't even remember Puffy's song and have no particular desire to remind myself, so all in all, this is going rather marvellously so far!
Oh my god, I kind of loved Blue Lagoon.
P.S. This is a thing that happened.
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
The Anus Song is bad enough as it is, but to have it sitting in this rate with some of my favourite songs of all time is truly a turd in the punchbowl moment. What an absolute disaster of a song for everyone concerned.
No particular quarrel with this going, I just hope we don't lose all the hip-hop tracks in quick succession, especially California Love.
My favourite cover of Break My Stride (1997, Austria)
I remember this getting a lot of airplay around the time Can’t Nobody Hold Me Down was a hit.
The cover is fine, but I’d rather listen to it a hundred times than have to suffer through The Anus Song again.
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