✦ 00s Indie Pop ✦ & ✖ 00s Indie Rock ✖ Rates | ✖ Indie Rock Rate Finale! ✖
- Thread starter soratami
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#14
#41
Moth's Wings
Passion Pit
7.75
11 (2) soratami @ohnostalgia | 10 (3) @Sprockrooster @MilesAngel @elektroxx | 9 (3) @berserkboi @Remorque @An Insider
2 @DJHazey | 5 @Phonetics Girl
Well... here we are. Time to eliminate the first of my 11s, which falls just short of making the overall top 40. Fun fact: if it weren't for @DJHazey's ballot, this would have been #9 instead...
Passion Pit, a band from Massachusetts, are, I believe, the "youngest" act in the rate, only having released their debut album Manners in June 2009 (if anyone's curious, the second youngest would be White Lies), and three more since, with the most recent one having been released in 2017. Moth's Wings is (obviously) taken from their debut, as is their second most well-known song Sleepyhead, embedded below, which I did consider including but felt it would be a bit too marmite for the rate. As for their most well-known song, that would be the iconic Take A Walk, also embedded below. Taken from sophomore album Gossamer (2012), it would definitely be a strong 11 contender in a potential 10s Indie Pop Rate. With the talent present in this rate, it was difficult picking an 11, and Big Jet Plane and Islands especially came close to getting it, but in the end Moth's Wings seemed like the correct choice, most of all because of the evocative, poetic lyrics, which manage to be affecting despite their meaning being quite ambiguous. I especially love the second verse:
You come beating like moth's wings
Spastic and violently
Whipping me into a storm
Shaking me down to the core
But you run away from me
And you left me shimmering
Like diamond wedding rings
Spinning dizzily down on the floor
#14
#41
Moth's Wings
Passion Pit
7.75
11 (2) soratami @ohnostalgia | 10 (3) @Sprockrooster @MilesAngel @elektroxx | 9 (3) @berserkboi @Remorque @An Insider
2 @DJHazey | 5 @Phonetics Girl
Well... here we are. Time to eliminate the first of my 11s, which falls just short of making the overall top 40. Fun fact: if it weren't for @DJHazey's ballot, this would have been #9 instead...
Passion Pit, a band from Massachusetts, are, I believe, the "youngest" act in the rate, only having released their debut album Manners in June 2009 (if anyone's curious, the second youngest would be White Lies), and three more since, with the most recent one having been released in 2017. Moth's Wings is (obviously) taken from their debut, as is their second most well-known song Sleepyhead, embedded below, which I did consider including but felt it would be a bit too marmite for the rate. As for their most well-known song, that would be the iconic Take A Walk, also embedded below. Taken from sophomore album Gossamer (2012), it would definitely be a strong 11 contender in a potential 10s Indie Pop Rate. With the talent present in this rate, it was difficult picking an 11, and Big Jet Plane and Islands especially came close to getting it, but in the end Moth's Wings seemed like the correct choice, most of all because of the evocative, poetic lyrics, which manage to be affecting despite their meaning being quite ambiguous. I especially love the second verse:
You come beating like moth's wings
Spastic and violently
Whipping me into a storm
Shaking me down to the core
But you run away from me
And you left me shimmering
Like diamond wedding rings
Spinning dizzily down on the floor
@DJHazey (2) “Pas pour moi. Just nothing else to say really, unless you want me to add it’s basically just noise to me, oh that makes it worse? Sorry I’ll stop.” Let me adjust my scores for your rate real quick x
@Maki (6.75) “I want to like this one more than I do. It's fine, I guess.”
@DominoDancing (7) “It certainly goes (Indie) big for its chorus, but like all Passion Pit songs, it's better on paper than in reality.”
@daninternational (7.75) “Song wise there's nothing to complain, but it doesn't really grab me - I think it is their 'wall of sound' approach”
@berserkboi (9) “Amazing as expected but Little Secrets remains the standout of this era for me”
@MilesAngel (10) “The production has delicate moments contrasted with a gossamer 'wall of sound.' The lyrics are enigmatic and moving.”
✦
Commentary Guessing Game
Moth's Wings
@MilesAngel:Moth's Wings
18. “The production has delicate moments contrasted with a gossamer 'wall of sound.' The lyrics are enigmatic and moving.” ✔
@slaybellz & @daninternational:
13. “The much too busy production is really distracting here. I could definitely see this work a lot better with a more restraint arrangement.”
A correct self-guess plus two wrong ones.
@slaybellz 3 (+1)
@MilesAngel 3 (+1)
@klow 3
@Phonetics Girl 3
@Maki 2 (+2)
@daninternational 2
@Untouchable Ace 1
@Attis 0 (+1)
The contrast between these two comments is making me laugh.
I was very into Passion Pit back in the day but I think these are my fav songs by them alongside Take A Walk.
And i've always loved this Marina remix too.
he/him
I honestly could never get into Passion Pit or any of those similar acts from the same time who hid decent songs behind LOTS OF MUSIC
ohnostalgia
Staff member
She/her
Let me look up everybody’s score in the full spreadsheet and issue some warnings. I’m so tired of people calling songs noise (admittedly this frustration comes more from my Kpop listening than indie listening). As Taemin once said, “use your imagination in a more novel way.”
Also that commentary guess was so obvious, I can’t believe only the writer got it right. Gossamer? Moth’s Wings?
D
Deleted member 26234
I'd love to hear your arguments why you love the song. Actually some of the positive reviews make me listen to a song again, maybe with "different ears", but not one negative review has made me love a song less ...
I have to admit I've stopped commenting on songs that I'm quite indifferent to because it's so much work to put my thoughts into words. I always try to explain my low votes and I love praising the songs I like.
I was disappointed at the Neko Case's song as I love some songs by her and I expected something similar beautiful. But I'm not sure if you just generally rant or it's really the assessment of "This Tornado Loves You" that you're disappointed at.
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ohnostalgia
Staff member
She/her
When I can gather my thoughts a bit more, I will. I was telling @soratami in our PM that I’d been listening to Moth’s Wings a lot this year, so I do have a lot to say.
I can write a bit about Neko Case too, even though my comment was meant more for Moth’s Wings.
I'm quite pleased nobody guessed my commentary for Moths Wings, although the clues were there.
I'd never heard it before and was immediately drawn in. I love the fluttering production and find the chord progressions in the chorus beautiful. I'm generally attracted to a 'wall of sound' and I find this one emotional, especially paired with the lyrics, which have reached into my soul and become imprinted there.
'Put down your sword and crown,
come lay with me on the ground.'
It's such a shame it didn't reach the Indie Top 10.
I'd never heard it before and was immediately drawn in. I love the fluttering production and find the chord progressions in the chorus beautiful. I'm generally attracted to a 'wall of sound' and I find this one emotional, especially paired with the lyrics, which have reached into my soul and become imprinted there.
'Put down your sword and crown,
come lay with me on the ground.'
It's such a shame it didn't reach the Indie Top 10.
ohnostalgia
Staff member
She/her
Okay. The first thing I'd like to say is that just calling a song "noise" is lazy musical criticism. Of course, it's a commentary for a rate and you don't need to do a full in depth analysis, but what I find missing from many of these comments is any analysis of said noise and what it is trying to accomplish. There's a difference between just calling a song noise versus looking at what the noise is trying to represent and then saying that the artist didn't quite accomplish what they were trying to convey with said noise. And to be fair, there are a few comments like that on the "noisy" songs we've eliminated.
I think the first thing that I would like people to know is that Moth's Wings is about the death of a friend (edit: I thought this was 100% confirmed, but there actually isn’t a source. However, for the sake of my comments we will go with the most common interpretation so that we can look at intent). The central metaphor of the song is moth's wings, which the writer describes beating as "spastic and violently." Right from the opening synth, I'm taken into this atmosphere. In my personal experience, whenever I see a moth I feel one of two things - if it's from far away I can appreciate the beauty, but if I'm seeing it up close I can get quite unsettled and scared. Let's add in the knowledge that Michael [edit: probably] wrote this song about his friend's death and we can put the pieces together to see how he's trying to create an ethereal atmosphere, but with an underlying hint of ugliness (or anxiety or unsettledness, whatever you want to call it). I think the best example of this tension is expressed through these lyrics: "Whose side are you on? What side is this anyways?" I have my own personal interpretation, which I will explain later on, but there's a comment on genius.com which really opened my eyes. What if Michael is referring to the sides of the veil (a common metaphor used when speaking about death)? Our narrator is clearly still shaken and haunted by his friend's death. So is the friend on the side of the living because the narrator can't let him go? He then goes on to question, "what side is this anyways?" Maybe the narrator has it all wrong and he's crossed over to the side of death by refusing to let their friend go? Michael leaves that completely up to the listener and I think it's one of the greatest parts of the storytelling on Moth's Wings.
The other most common theory about Moth’s Wings is that it’s about Michael’s struggles with bipolar disorder, which actually fits incredibly well with my own personal interpretation of the song. In this interpretation the friend and the narrator likely represent the ups and downs of living with bipolar disorder. The ethereal atmosphere with the underlying touch of ugliness slash anxiety works well with this interpretation as well, evoking the ever changing moods one might experience while living with bipolar disorder.
The next part is my own emotional reaction to the song (which I don't expect people to connect with, I'm simply sharing because you asked why I love the song so much). To understand why I love Moth's Wings so much I think I need to give a little bit of context (but not too much in case it's triggering). In 2018 I was essentially pulled out of the world outside me - it started with a brief hospitalization, then a year long leave from work. In February 2020 I was finally cleared to go back to work and fully enter the outside world. Two months later I was sent home because of the global pandemic. When I listen to Moth's Wings, I interpret it as a conversation between two voices inside my head - the one that desperately wants to get better and sees recovery as a linear progression and the other that just wants to give in and is perfectly okay letting mental illness run her life. The narrator represents the first voice and the friend is the second.
"Dear friend as you know your flowers are withering...but the clouds are clearing up and I've come reveling, burning incandescently." This reminds me so much of the feelings I had when I started my new job.
"You come beating like a moth's wings, spastic and violently / whipping me into a storm, shaking me down to the core. But you run away from me and you left me shimmering." This reminds me of every moment I've thought, "things are looking up," only to run into another stumbling block. The moth's wings can represent my self-doubt getting the best of me, or they can represent my determination trying to push through that self doubt.
"You're resting on your laurels and stepping on my toes. Whose side are you on? What side is this anyway?" This is every feeling I've ever had that I'm keeping myself sick on purpose, that I don't want to get better. Is there any part of me that wants to get better or have I fooled part of myself into believing it? Are we all of the same side and more importantly, is it the wrong side? Is there even a wrong side?
"Put down your sword and crown, come lay with me on the ground." Some of my best and worst moments happen when I'm lying on the floor, face up. The two voices rarely cross at these moments, but maybe it's time that they do.
I listened to Moth's Wings so much in 2021 because I finally felt like I was adjusting to the pandemic and all the curve balls it threw at my recovery plans.... and then I broke my foot in March, leaving me essentially bed ridden for a month. Once again, the cycle started all over again.
I'll close this off by saying that there is an official stripped down release of Moth's Wings. I don't find it nearly as effective, but here it is for people who want to compare.
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ohnostalgia
Staff member
She/her
I edited my post slightly because I thought the meaning was confirmed by Michael himself, but I can’t find it now. So I added a bit about the second most common interpretation.
D
Deleted member 26234
@ohnostalgia at first I have to say I love your review and your interpretation of the song. Thank you so much for sharing. I could never ever see moths or any flying insect (but bees and maybe ladybugs) as beautiful but I try to not get too hysterical whenever I see one.
I've certainly re-listend to Moth's Wings with your explanation and I have to admit the song is right up my alley and I definitely underscored it with 6 points. I don't like the instrumental intro and the düdüdüdüdüdü vocal part but I do love the melody line.
I understand the sadness you take out of the song and that part of you feels like just to let go and give in but I'd like to underscore the positive aspects of the song. To me the melody has such an optimistic mood like when you've gone through a hard time but now you've coped and everything's going to be better. As right now everything is quite quiet, maybe the sun is shining and warming you inside up and so you've got the strength to go on.
I remember that I once was asked to draw a picture of how I feel. I have to admit I'm a very bad painter so I really can't express myself that way. I wanted to share a picture of warm sun and how protected I feel under it. My imagination showed me a Greek Island with its blue houses, the warm sun and the beautiful environment but what I draw was a stonewall with a big sun and a lonely flower growing out of it, which was interpreted completely wrong by my teacher. But in hindsight that's the same with this song I get such a positive vibe of it but it can also be interpreted as the opposite that steady flow that's taking you down and you can't fight it anymore ...
I've certainly re-listend to Moth's Wings with your explanation and I have to admit the song is right up my alley and I definitely underscored it with 6 points. I don't like the instrumental intro and the düdüdüdüdüdü vocal part but I do love the melody line.
I understand the sadness you take out of the song and that part of you feels like just to let go and give in but I'd like to underscore the positive aspects of the song. To me the melody has such an optimistic mood like when you've gone through a hard time but now you've coped and everything's going to be better. As right now everything is quite quiet, maybe the sun is shining and warming you inside up and so you've got the strength to go on.
I remember that I once was asked to draw a picture of how I feel. I have to admit I'm a very bad painter so I really can't express myself that way. I wanted to share a picture of warm sun and how protected I feel under it. My imagination showed me a Greek Island with its blue houses, the warm sun and the beautiful environment but what I draw was a stonewall with a big sun and a lonely flower growing out of it, which was interpreted completely wrong by my teacher. But in hindsight that's the same with this song I get such a positive vibe of it but it can also be interpreted as the opposite that steady flow that's taking you down and you can't fight it anymore ...
ohnostalgia
Staff member
She/her
This is lovely, thanks for sharing. I especially love the last two sentences of your first paragraph. A lot of the time I do feel the same way when I listen to Moth’s Wings. It honestly really depends on my perspective in that moment of time, which is one of the reasons why I love it so much. I actually meant to submit commentary for this rate, but unfortunately a series of events at work left me feeling unwell right around the deadline time. Thank you for asking me to write about Moth’s Wings.
For anyone interested, I found a remix of the song that I think really emphasizes the wing beating effect Michael was going for with his instrumental. Never thought I’d be turning to a dance remix, as I usually don’t enjoy them, but here we are.
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Today
After the beating the indie pop section has taken, we start the longest indie rock cull in the rate
...with two of my 10s
(as soon as we get to the next page nn)
he / him
"Little Secrets" was that bop.