He/Him
The next three cuts are all the first loss for three of our major artists so brace yourselves!
20GAYTeen the Rate: WINNER!!
- Thread starter Trouble in Paradise
- Start date
He/Him
Our first from this main artist will be introduced by Imam Ludovic-Mohamed Zahed who founded the first LGBT friendly mosque in Europe and aims to promote a more accepting and feminist profession of the Muslim faith.
54. "What's-Her-Face"/ "Machin-Chose"
By Christine & The Queens
7.356
Highest Scores: 10 x 2(@constantino @Lost Boy) 9.5 x 1(@yuuurei)
Lowest Scores: 4 x 3(@Hurricane Drunk @Empty Shoebox @happiestgirl 5 x 2(@Reboot @GimmeWork)
My Score: 6
My bubblin' face, tangled hair
Like gloomy thoughts to separate
Recreation looks easy for some
Nosebleeds dismissed with a cruel hum
It's been years since that playground
It's been years since that playground
Yes, our French legend finally loses her first track at #54. I knew after listening to NPR's amazing interview with her that I would have to include this track in the rate even if it wasn't my favorite sonically and I knew it wouldn't be voter catnip. The themes it dwells on are really important to the queer community and the foreboding production matches it quite well. I rated it lower because even though I admire what the song is about and think it's done well, I don't really enjoy listening to it. Is it a case of cutting too close to the bone or simply a case of finding all those echoing "ever evers" a bit too much?
Anyways, as promised the main artist write-ups will be a bit shorter. I'll start with the quote from NPR that sold me on this song's necessary inclusion in the rate:
Posh Spears Phew, a trip!
Reboot The lyrics are really powerful and relatable, but I’m not a fan of the melody. It’s a bit too slow for my liking. I find the “ever, ever” bit quite annoying to be honest.
londonrain The menacing production really makes this for me.
Pop3blow2 Very confessional starkness to this song. Reminds me of the show Sharp Objects. It stirs the same feelings & parts of the lyrics even remind of some of the plot points in that show.
Yuuurei Melancholy and dark and relatable. I love the lyrics and the vocals are incredible. (Does anyone else hear a frog in the beat during the chorus?)
ufint So it has been years since I have been on the playground, but this song is kinda the definition of what’s-her-face on this album. It sets the mood beautifully but not a song that I could ever sing along to comparing to the other songs on the album or her previous album. Still, this album is a 8.3 and this is not the absolute worst on the album.
Untouchable Ace How sad. Is this a goodbye?
The Hot Rock Not every song can end my existence/be a 8+ but that's okay!!!
untitled yas Chris yas, you look so good when you assure me of the unachievability of happiness and the inescapability of the past!
constantino THIS is how you do a down-tempo; dark, searing and viscerally emotive. This paints a vivid picture of isolation and frustration, set in a rainy, cold Parisian night. (Suddenly the ImperialAsteroid is me, whew!)
54. "What's-Her-Face"/ "Machin-Chose"
By Christine & The Queens
7.356
Highest Scores: 10 x 2(@constantino @Lost Boy) 9.5 x 1(@yuuurei)
Lowest Scores: 4 x 3(@Hurricane Drunk @Empty Shoebox @happiestgirl 5 x 2(@Reboot @GimmeWork)
My Score: 6
My bubblin' face, tangled hair
Like gloomy thoughts to separate
Recreation looks easy for some
Nosebleeds dismissed with a cruel hum
It's been years since that playground
It's been years since that playground
Anyways, as promised the main artist write-ups will be a bit shorter. I'll start with the quote from NPR that sold me on this song's necessary inclusion in the rate:
There's a song on the album called "What's-her-face" that kind of addresses the permanence of the wound: once an outsider, always one. Even if, at some point, you get empowered and you belong for some reason, or you find a way to mend your narrative, the wound of feeling totally cast out and lonely and rejected – I think it will forever linger. It never heals, and it actually wakes up, and for me, I do have this experience of the wound waking up regularly. You can't really escape it, you just have to tame it.
Childhood traumas, can't be queer without having at least a couple! I do love that she touches on the fact that even if you grow to a more empowered and confident place in your life, these experiences stay with us and forever mark how we experience the world. She had similar things to say in her album breakdown with Pitchfork:
The permanence of one’s state is the sad, but weirdly tender, idea behind that song. No matter what you eventually become—free, empowered—the lingering feeling of “once an outsider, always an outsider” is very vivid for me. It’s like a wound that sometimes wakes up and bleeds, even when something really small happens—a side-eye, a feeling of betrayal. It’s about the idea that a trauma can also be a full part of your story. It’s about giving some justice to that story, even though it’s not a triumphant one, because owning it makes the pain less absurd. I worked around a really bare production with a heavy, pulsing bass and some ghostly vocals that build around the main lead, as if to build the sad emergence of a memory. I recorded the ending vocal in one take, trying to emulate the feeling of crying from the inside.
You know what wound sometimes wakes up and bleeds all over me? The commentary document:
Posh Spears Phew, a trip!
Reboot The lyrics are really powerful and relatable, but I’m not a fan of the melody. It’s a bit too slow for my liking. I find the “ever, ever” bit quite annoying to be honest.
londonrain The menacing production really makes this for me.
Pop3blow2 Very confessional starkness to this song. Reminds me of the show Sharp Objects. It stirs the same feelings & parts of the lyrics even remind of some of the plot points in that show.
Yuuurei Melancholy and dark and relatable. I love the lyrics and the vocals are incredible. (Does anyone else hear a frog in the beat during the chorus?)
ufint So it has been years since I have been on the playground, but this song is kinda the definition of what’s-her-face on this album. It sets the mood beautifully but not a song that I could ever sing along to comparing to the other songs on the album or her previous album. Still, this album is a 8.3 and this is not the absolute worst on the album.
Untouchable Ace How sad. Is this a goodbye?
The Hot Rock Not every song can end my existence/be a 8+ but that's okay!!!
untitled yas Chris yas, you look so good when you assure me of the unachievability of happiness and the inescapability of the past!
constantino THIS is how you do a down-tempo; dark, searing and viscerally emotive. This paints a vivid picture of isolation and frustration, set in a rainy, cold Parisian night. (Suddenly the ImperialAsteroid is me, whew!)
He/Him
Oh what a shame! I finally discovered her catalog when doing the CHRIS rate but seeing the context around the track here gives it so much power. Thanks for sourcing those interviews @Trouble in Paradise ! XXX
55. “11:11”
By LEADR
7.335
Highest Scores: 10 x 4(@GimmeWork @Reboot @Cutlery @Untouchable Ace) 9.5 x 2 (@yuuurei @londonrain)
Lowest Scores: 4 x 2 (@Verandi @slaybellz ) 5 x 5 (@LE0Night @Empty Shoebox @happiestgirl @dylanaber @Sanctuary )
My Score: 7.5
When you make a wish
Light as feather
Flowing through the wind
Follow your heart, it’s gold
I am both very surprised at how well liked this song was and very surprised that I didn’t see that coming! With time, I’ve come to see that I both underscored the extras as a whole and overscored a select few of the main artists songs. For some reason dipping below a 8 for a main artist felt like it needed to be justified while I needed justification for going about an 8 for extras. Who knows why?
“11:11” is for me the perfect case of a great song that doesn’t try to recreate the wheel but just do what it sets out to do really well. The dreamy vibe oozes out of this song in every way. It helps that LEADR is not only the performer but the songwriter and producer as well. He’s crafted such a clear vision for his artistry (his music videos and his Instagram are aesthetic goals) without losing focus on what matters most: how it sounds.
In discussing the video with my beloved Billboard Pride, LEADR explained:
I think by now y'all have learned how much I love queer artistry playing off of religious motifs- I'm a big Years & Years fan- and I think LEADR does that exceptionally well in his video. It's not some overdone moment where he's bashing you over the head with the metaphor but instead gorgeous scenes that provoke the same type of reactions those paintings and religious images do.
I pulled references from religious renaissance paintings and portrayed our motions by being still in some shots. The dance sections represent releasing fears and being true to yourself
He explained that one of his favorite scenes is when his collaborator, singer-songwriter TXVX, holds a blooming flower. “It’s such a powerful shot that symbolizes fulfilling our soul’s purpose. Her performance brought joy and happiness which is what we all strive to do in life."
In discussing the meaning of the song with Billboard Pride and in particular the 11:11 moniker, LEADR said
“It’s much more than making a wish and good luck. I believe it’s a positive message from the universe and the number of transition. The eleventh hour is before the start of a new day, a new beginning. We all have a chance for new changes and achieving our goals.”This bitch loves numerology and is very much here for this. But actually I again think this is another example of how well LEADR ties things together in this song as the meaning lies not just in the songs lyrics but in the aural sensation it creates. The song is filled with the anticipation of a new day beginning and the hope that brings to you.
Lastly, I have absolutely no idea how to get a damn instagram post to embed in here so I'll just let y'all know that LEADR is a fellow Lil Troyester (he met him once at an airport!) as well as a big fan of Bright Light Bright Light (he opened for him!)
Now what did you Lil Troyesters and Lil Twink H8Rz have to say?
untitled glittery melancholia? have a lot of points
The Hot Rock It was alright.
Untouchable Ace Just beautiful & hopeful.
ufint If I close my eyes and think of summer this brings a warmth to my heart. Warm disco, excellent beat and decent vocals. Where is my Pina Colada?
Yuuurei I love the mystical and ethereal vibe here.
Constantino A chillwave bop, The xx are shaking.
reboot This is amazing?? It sounds so otherworldly.
Gimmework The effervescence of this track transports me and I stan.
londonrain Oh wow. I love this! I’d heard of Leadr before through Bright Light Bright Light (I think Leadr opened for him) but hadn’t really kept up after Waves failed to click with me, so I didn’t know this was out. The instrumentation on this is addictive and the vocals work perfectly with it.
Eliminating LEADR already is not okay.
It was the discovery of the rate for me.
londonrain
Staff member
Same. What a song.
Eliminating LEADR already is not okay.
It was the discovery of the rate for me.
I underscored that one, and by that I mean I gave it a 9 when it's actually a 10 (which is what I scored it in the Chris rate). It's easily one of the best and most impactful songs on the album, though it's not really surprising it's the first Chris song eliminated, since it's definitely a grower and takes a while to really click.
The next two better be Years and Years and MNEK.
londonrain
Staff member
It'll be Years and Years and Hayley Kiyoko and we'll deal.
He/Him
Next up, we have Maulik Pancholy who stole every scene he was in as Jonathan in 30 Rock but more importantly has been an advocate for both the rights of LGBTQ people and people of Asian heritage in the United States. President Obama appointed Pancholy to his Advisory Commission on Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders but he eventually resigned his post upon the transition to the current president.
53. "He'll Never Love You (HNLY)"
By Hayley Kiyoko
7.374
Highest Scores: 11 x 1 (@Blob) 10 x 3 (@slaybellz @Posh Spears @Music Is Life)
Lowest Scores: 4 x 1 (@LE0Night) 5 x 3 (@Lost Boy @Untitled @yuuurei)
My Score: 7
Playing with my fingertips
Sitting there biting your lip
Trying to kiss, who are you trying to trick?
Why don't you just cut the shit?
@Blob honey, I'm so sorry! Losing an 11 is always hard and I didn't give any warning in a blatant attempt at shock (I do it all for the ratings!) Despite all of y'all's merciless calls for Olly & Co. to lose a track, it is in fact Lesbian Jesus herself to now face the chopping block. "He'll Never Love You" is one of three songs in a trilogy based on Kiyoko's own life experiences, the other two being "Curious" and "What I Need." I'm sure being in love with a girl who couldn't be her authentic self sucked but it gave us three SONGS. I will say that "HNLY" is a fun bop for me but I'm not crushed to see it go now.
Hayley spoke more about the song's origin to GQ, saying:
I'm gonna post the commentary without my own comments but let me just say that some of y'all got a big storm coming...
The Hot Rock It's pretty cute.
Posh Spears Bop, and love her delivery on this one. “Why don’t you just cut the SHIT!!!” queen
Constantino I’m all for sapphic man-stealing bops, but this is hella basic. Still, I’ll chuck her some points for gumption.
Pop3blow2 I was admittedly only a little familiar with Hayley’s music before this rate. She’s really fantastic, so obviously I need to listen to her more. I could see her being someone I could be 'popsessed' with. Only time for so many popsessions!
kalonite Dumb name, great song.
Music is Life Love the sightly choppy verses mixed with the more melodic chorus. And yes, tell her the truth Hayley.
Yuuurei Another one of the weaker tracks, along with Curious. It's fine, just ... not as good as the rest. I don't really even have anything to say about it. I would have much preferred to see Wanna Be Missed in this song's place in the rate, since it's a much stronger and more emotionally meaningful song (to me), but it is what it is! Regardless, this just isn't one I care much for.
Slaybellz One of my favourites on the album. Love the savage lyrics, love the horns. It gives me really strong New Orleans vibes. I kinda wish she had made this a single and shot a music video for it there.
53. "He'll Never Love You (HNLY)"
By Hayley Kiyoko
7.374
Highest Scores: 11 x 1 (@Blob) 10 x 3 (@slaybellz @Posh Spears @Music Is Life)
Lowest Scores: 4 x 1 (@LE0Night) 5 x 3 (@Lost Boy @Untitled @yuuurei)
My Score: 7
Playing with my fingertips
Sitting there biting your lip
Trying to kiss, who are you trying to trick?
Why don't you just cut the shit?
Hayley spoke more about the song's origin to GQ, saying:
Am I right in guessing that "He'll Never Love You" is part of the same lyrical family as "Curious" and the Kehlani duet?
Yes! That was the last song. I was like, "This is it! I'm leaving!"
As a songwriter, it's easy to feel an emotion and then write a song about that emotion. But for me personally, it's very difficult to go through an exact experience and then autobiographically write exactly what happened from beginning to end. That was the one song I was able to accomplish that, where it was like, "I left a mark on your neck." Like literally from the beginning to end, every single word in that song is exactly what happened to me. It's such a fun song for me, because I get to sing it and yell it from the top of my lungs, where I'm like, "This is what you did to me, and this is how I felt, and he'll never love you like I do."
It feels like an anthem to my life that I've been trying to write for years, where it's just like, "Come on! Wake up! You like girls! Wake up and smell the coffee!" It's been a song that's been on the tip of my tongue and I haven't been able to just put into words.
Plus you take real ownership of the situation.
Yeah, it's pretty cocky. I was in a very cocky place where I was just like, "You know what, I'm the shit. How dare you? I know what's going on. I'm calling it out. I'm calling a spade a spade here." I have no filter with this album, definitely. Why should I have a filter? No one else has a filter.
Phew, we love making lemonade out of lemons! Also one last fun fact: I spelled the abbreviation wrong on the song list so most of you rated "HLNY" which my mind reads as "He'll love you never" cause ???Yes! That was the last song. I was like, "This is it! I'm leaving!"
As a songwriter, it's easy to feel an emotion and then write a song about that emotion. But for me personally, it's very difficult to go through an exact experience and then autobiographically write exactly what happened from beginning to end. That was the one song I was able to accomplish that, where it was like, "I left a mark on your neck." Like literally from the beginning to end, every single word in that song is exactly what happened to me. It's such a fun song for me, because I get to sing it and yell it from the top of my lungs, where I'm like, "This is what you did to me, and this is how I felt, and he'll never love you like I do."
It feels like an anthem to my life that I've been trying to write for years, where it's just like, "Come on! Wake up! You like girls! Wake up and smell the coffee!" It's been a song that's been on the tip of my tongue and I haven't been able to just put into words.
Plus you take real ownership of the situation.
Yeah, it's pretty cocky. I was in a very cocky place where I was just like, "You know what, I'm the shit. How dare you? I know what's going on. I'm calling it out. I'm calling a spade a spade here." I have no filter with this album, definitely. Why should I have a filter? No one else has a filter.
I'm gonna post the commentary without my own comments but let me just say that some of y'all got a big storm coming...
The Hot Rock It's pretty cute.
Posh Spears Bop, and love her delivery on this one. “Why don’t you just cut the SHIT!!!” queen
Constantino I’m all for sapphic man-stealing bops, but this is hella basic. Still, I’ll chuck her some points for gumption.
Pop3blow2 I was admittedly only a little familiar with Hayley’s music before this rate. She’s really fantastic, so obviously I need to listen to her more. I could see her being someone I could be 'popsessed' with. Only time for so many popsessions!
kalonite Dumb name, great song.
Music is Life Love the sightly choppy verses mixed with the more melodic chorus. And yes, tell her the truth Hayley.
Yuuurei Another one of the weaker tracks, along with Curious. It's fine, just ... not as good as the rest. I don't really even have anything to say about it. I would have much preferred to see Wanna Be Missed in this song's place in the rate, since it's a much stronger and more emotionally meaningful song (to me), but it is what it is! Regardless, this just isn't one I care much for.
Slaybellz One of my favourites on the album. Love the savage lyrics, love the horns. It gives me really strong New Orleans vibes. I kinda wish she had made this a single and shot a music video for it there.
Ew gross.
I knew as soon as I was tagged the time had come.
Hayley is a fantastic artist, she has great songs, can command a stage and even though you can tell deep down she's vulnerable she can still fake it like she's the shit.
He'll Never Love You Like Me encompasses that whole persona for me. As she states in the interviews you can tell there's raw emotion underneath the 'cocky' lyrics.
Honestly, the album is probably one of my favourites ever. As a gay man I feel I can really relate to the experiences and emotions Hayley writes and sings about. The other songs she has in this rate are fantastic (you'll see from my scores) and I knew that she had to have my 11.
He'll Never Love You Like Me had to be the one in the end. Everything about it is perfection. The instrumental before it kicks in, the production on the song, the way she sings on the verses like she needs you the listen to her words. But most importantly the lyrics and how simple yet effective they are.
'I left a mark on your neck, yeah I know you won't forget'
...
'I'm the best you've ever had, yeah cos' I'm sweet like that'.
...
'Who are you trying to trick, why don't you just cut the shit'
...
'He'll never love you like me'
...
The urgency, the cockiness, the power these words have! I'm so sad to see this go so soon (and before the top 30?!) but as I've already seen there's so much varied taste in this thread so I don't think anything is guaranteed at this point.
Although I must say 'Wanna Be Missed' is my favourite song off the album. It shows a truly vulnerable side to Hayley that I'm so pleased she's willing to share. Not every artist can do that and it really makes me appreciate the album so much more.
Also credit to team taste @Posh Spears @slaybellz @Music Is Life
Hayley is a fantastic artist, she has great songs, can command a stage and even though you can tell deep down she's vulnerable she can still fake it like she's the shit.
He'll Never Love You Like Me encompasses that whole persona for me. As she states in the interviews you can tell there's raw emotion underneath the 'cocky' lyrics.
Honestly, the album is probably one of my favourites ever. As a gay man I feel I can really relate to the experiences and emotions Hayley writes and sings about. The other songs she has in this rate are fantastic (you'll see from my scores) and I knew that she had to have my 11.
He'll Never Love You Like Me had to be the one in the end. Everything about it is perfection. The instrumental before it kicks in, the production on the song, the way she sings on the verses like she needs you the listen to her words. But most importantly the lyrics and how simple yet effective they are.
'I left a mark on your neck, yeah I know you won't forget'
...
'I'm the best you've ever had, yeah cos' I'm sweet like that'.
...
'Who are you trying to trick, why don't you just cut the shit'
...
'He'll never love you like me'
...
The urgency, the cockiness, the power these words have! I'm so sad to see this go so soon (and before the top 30?!) but as I've already seen there's so much varied taste in this thread so I don't think anything is guaranteed at this point.
Although I must say 'Wanna Be Missed' is my favourite song off the album. It shows a truly vulnerable side to Hayley that I'm so pleased she's willing to share. Not every artist can do that and it really makes me appreciate the album so much more.
Also credit to team taste @Posh Spears @slaybellz @Music Is Life