Alexandra Burke

T

TeenIdle

But that theory can be easily disproven. Using myself as an example - I adored Misha B during her stint on X Factor and thought the attitude twist towards her was ridiculous. Yet, I still find Ms Burke quite annoying.

I don't think you're getting the point. You're trying to localize and individualize the argument and also then finding it sad that people are being accused of racism, which isn't happening either and shows you trying to tackle this on a local level. The issue is the subconscious and internalized thoughts and overall mentality a society has been fed to think about a certain minority or another.
 
But I'm localising it to prove a point that it's impossible to make blanket statements about such an issue. If that makes sense.
 
But no one is maklng a 'blanket statement'.

People are getting extremely defensive and immediately declaring that none of this is true because they personally are not racist and thereby completely missing the point. No one is being accused of being personally racist.

There are plenty of reasons that people may dislike Alexandra Burke none of them to do with her race, but the level of vitriol and the petty excuses given for it hint at something deeper.

British society undoubtedly has a problem with black women (The women part being just, if not more, important than the black) and specifically black British women. Refusing to accept this simply because you don't think it applies to you doesn't mean that the problem isn't real.
 
D

Deleted member 312

I used to love Alexandra and really wanted her to win X Factor. Then she released a string of mediocre songs and revealed herself to be a bit of a knob. I now think....she's a bit of a knob!

I'm not sure about the whole racism thing. It may play a part in her treatment in the media but I think the pudding is being somewhat over-egged.
 
The English in general are an insecure bunch. It is incredible that some people still have insecurity issues regarding confident, extrovert women who have an opinion.
Jessie J has also been getting alot of negative press for being a diva, loud, full of herself. Thats just the way things are here, you are expected to know your place.
 
R

Resi12

I used to love Alexandra and really wanted her to win X Factor. Then she released a string of mediocre songs and revealed herself to be a bit of a knob. I now think....she's a bit of a knob!

I'm not sure about the whole racism thing. It may play a part in her treatment in the media but I think the pudding is being somewhat over-egged.

How is she a knob though? Like any stand out interviews or whatever?
 
L

LoveLockdown

This is 100% correct but doesn't explain why the everyone loves black US female artists but won't support UK ones. Bit too close to home maybe, we don't want to home grown ethnics getting above themselves do we !!

The US has always had a big thing about blacks. There are a lot of them and so they have their own community etc. That isn't there in the UK, ie MOBOs being called racist when they aren't and are there to give black artists credit.
 
But no one is maklng a 'blanket statement'.

People are getting extremely defensive and immediately declaring that none of this is true because they personally are not racist and thereby completely missing the point. No one is being accused of being personally racist.

There are plenty of reasons that people may dislike Alexandra Burke none of them to do with her race, but the level of vitriol and the petty excuses given for it hint at something deeper.

British society undoubtedly has a problem with black women (The women part being just, if not more, important than the black) and specifically black British women. Refusing to accept this simply because you don't think it applies to you doesn't mean that the problem isn't real.

Agree 100%. It's nice that someone intelligent is commenting on this.
 
S

SilverSurfer

Did this all start because of the X Factor judging spot?

I don't live in the UK anymore so I don't know exactly how her image is there at the moment, but how could she go from arguably the #1 pop star in the UK during 2009/2010 with smash after smash.....to not even being able to get a spot on Chatty Man, blacklisted by every major radio station, hated in the media? What happened? It's not like "Elephant" flopped either, #3 is pretty respectable, why didn't they release the album right after it and get some major promo off the back of that song's success? Does her own management hate her too?
 
I

IotV

The problem with the racism thing is that those alleging it seem to be making it virtually specific to Alexandra; she is apparently the only one the public are racist about. Really?

1. There are tonnes of black artists in the chart.
- It's only black women!

2. There are tonnes of black women in the chart.
- It's only English black women!

3. There are a lot of English black women in the chart, such as Leona Lewis (yeah, I Got You flopped, we know).
- It's only dark-skinned black English women!

4. But Emeli Sandé is doing brilliantly in both charts...
- She's singing music she's expected to sing!

5. So it's dark-skinned black English women who sing uptempo pop music that feel the heat of the nation's subconscious racism?
- Ya!!

6. But how come Alexandra won the X Factor?
- She won it being falsely humble, and singing songs she was expected to sing!

7. But plenty of white girls with big voices have been on the X Factor singing ballads and being humble, and they didn't win. Even people in Alexandra's year. Surely that shows the (voting) British public (who are likely to be a similar demograph to those who would buy her music nowadays) connected with Alexandra on some level greater to that of Laura White (e.g.), regardless of her skin tone?
- Yeah, but people just don't like seeing her succeed!

8. Her début album sold about 800,000 copies in the United Kingdom alone. She had many #1s. She was clearly supported by the public. Why would this public later turn on her?
- (I can't think of a response to this)


People seem to want this to be racism just because Alexandra Burke is flopping, narrowing and narrowing the parametres so the British subconscious racism basically extends to Alexandra Burke. Stop making excuses just because she's flopping; it wasn't an issue in the Overcome era when she was successful, so raising it here is just petty and devalues the real issue of racism in today's work in my opinion. People find her annoying; and ok.com! was probably the tipping point. I remember back when it was said, it was mooted by some as 'Alexandra's great moment in popular culture!'. Whoops. Plus the material is generic shit. Why is it hard to accept that a singer is flopping when they release a shit song and are generally regarded as exceptionally annoying? Pixie Lott flopped because she was annoying and the material was generic shit. That wasn't racism.

Realistically Alexandra doesn't get any more heat than many other pop stars do as well. Example: Leona is called "dull", "boring" etc just as much as Alexandra is called annoying. Leona is a bit of a dull interview, just as Alexandra is an annoying one. Look at the ridiculous hatred over Lady Gaga's looks in the early part of her career; her "massive nose", the hermaphrodite "rumours." Madonna gets more heat than any other pop star around. Britney is front-page news when she chews her nails. The idea that Alexandra Burke has the world gunning for her is a bit melodramatic.
 
3. There are a lot of English black women in the chart,

.

No there aren't and there never has been, i can count on 1 hand the black british women who have sustained careers in the UK (Shirley Bassey, Sade, Gabrielle, to some extent Beverlt Knight)

Emelie Sandi is the totall exception she has had the whole industry behind her (but only after they had run out of white girls singing soul to promote)

The UK music scene has always has a problem with black Uk artists and only in the last few years has this changed for the men, women still have absolutely no support whatsoever and if they are lucky enough to get signed they have no money behind them , no coherant strategy and no promotion.

Nobody is denying any of the reasons that you have proffered for Alex's lack of success this era but we're not talking about the lack of sales we're talking about the irrational and vitriolic negative feeling that people have towards her with nothing to back it up.
 

Mvnl

Staff member
She's black. There are a lot of racist people out there. Therefore obviously some of the hatred she gets is race related.
People who otherwise might have liked her.
With any artist you can find people who dislike/hate them for whatever reason, and with any artist of a minority the amount of dislike/hate will always likely be bigger because they get an additional group of people who automatically hate them.
But that does not mean she's flopping because she's black, or anyone who hates her without having a good reason is being racist.
 
She comes across as obnoxious and delusional in interviews. That's enough isn't it? People disliked Rachel Stevens for less than that.

Can't believe people are playing the race card.
 
I

IotV

No there aren't and there never has been, i can count on 1 hand the black british women who have sustained careers in the UK (Shirley Bassey, Sade, Gabrielle, to some extent Beverlt Knight)

Emelie Sandi is the totall exception she has had the whole industry behind her (but only after they had run out of white girls singing soul to promote)

The UK music scene has always has a problem with black Uk artists and only in the last few years has this changed for the men, women still have absolutely no support whatsoever and if they are lucky enough to get signed they have no money behind them , no coherant strategy and no promotion.

Nobody is denying any of the reasons that you have proffered for Alex's lack of success this era but we're not talking about the lack of sales we're talking about the irrational and vitriolic negative feeling that people have towards her with nothing to back it up.

OK. 90.94% of people in the UK are white. So 9.06% are black/Asian/mixed race. So 4.53% are black/Asian/mixed race women.

Consider the current black/mixed race/Asian women from the UK having musical success at the moment. Leona. Emeli. Rita Ora. Rebecca Ferguson. Alexandra (first five I thought of). Realistically only 9.06% (assuming 1:1 male-female ratio) of British females having chart success [should be black/Asian/mixed race (should = going by percentages, not my personal opinion). I'd say there's more than 9.06% of current UK-born female chart toppers falling into that category.

See my point? It's not a nice way of doing things, but it makes logical sense. Out of that 9.06 when you consider the fact that the majority of pop stars end up failing in one way or another, it makes sense that a lot of black females have failed. A hell of a lot of white ones have too.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Mvnl

Staff member
Do you have any examples of that? Obnoxious is subjective I guess, but I've never seen her come off remotely delusional.

I also think, cliche and horrible as it is, she might have been a lot more succesful going with a more R&B/urban sound. Currently her sound might put off some potential black fans, while white girls probably don't grow up thinking 'I want to be like her!' like they do with the Britney's of this world.
 

Top