Discussion in 'Charts, rates etc' started by DJHazey, Oct 11, 2021.
Whyyyyyy? Why would you guys do this?
Well, all he got was a footnote instead of an entry in the rate proper. (with reason)
When I saw I got tagged, I was so scared for my 10, which is a Domino enemy - but I was glad it was a low score instead!
Sevendust // Praise 6.2
Drowning Pool // Bodies 7 Possible future workout playlist entry?
Well the creators of this genre lasted 14 songs, but which song goes first?
At least we get the order right.
Korn | Falling Away From Me | 7.106 (+0.047 / +0.75 points)
Highest: 10x1 (@DJHazey) 9.5x1 (@Twitch Mo)
Lowest: 4x1 (@berserkboi) 5x1 (@unnameable)
Album: Issues - 1999
Charting: 24 108
Let's cut right to the chase, what the song is really about. Korn frontman Jonathan Davis said: "The song is about domestic abuse and that there are ways to get help. Whether it's telling someone or calling a help line, there are ways to get out of those situations. No one has to be treated like that."
Fred Durst directed the video, whose concept was a teen coping with domestic abuse. According to Pop-Up video, MTV had a problem with the beating part. They wouldn't allow Korn to show any direct contact. According to Korn's management, the electricity part of the video "represents the power inside us to change our situation and take control." Korn saw it differently, "it was just a metal cool thing." ddd At the end of the clip when the room starts lighting up, if you look close enough you can see Fred Durst's face for a split second.
The video enjoyed similar success to its predecessor, "Freak on a Leash", debuting on MTV's Total Request Live at number three, and reaching number one on its seventh day. It would eventually become Korn's third "retired" video on the program, with ten non-consecutive days at number one. In fact, the video begins as a continuation of the famous video for "Freak on a Leash", starting with its closing animation.
I won't get into too much detail but considering the very early childhood I myself endured, this song hit me pretty hard and instantly became one of my favorites. This (and to a lesser extent Follow the Leader) were the albums I remember blasting in @Twitch Mo's basement non-stop. Every song on Issues will transport me back to those days within the first five seconds. Usually back to playing Magic the Gathering, building new decks, editing old ones, and going through binders of cards as we did trades.
@berserkboi - 4 - Eh, not terrible!
After getting 'attacked' in your thread for my French rate scores we're going to call a song that you're give a 4/10 "not terrible". Will it makes things easier for me if I just say all my 2's and 3's aren't terrible dd?
@unnameable – 5 – ok, but a bit discordant
Oh I'd love to see you listening to their debut. Not that either is better than the other in my eyes, but this is polished in comparison.
@livefrommelbs - 6 - This is a pre-eminent example of early 00s existential angst.
I'd...honestly choose different wording considering what the song is about and the fact that the singer and lyricist is writing from direct experiences on the subject.
@DominoDancing - 7.5 - Case in point, this is already feels a lot more generic than Freak on a Leash.
I disagree, they didn't start to sound generic until maybe Take a Look in the Mirror. They sound like Korn and classic Korn is just Korn not a generic version of anyone else.
I'm simply going to post my other Top 3 songs from the album and mourn this loss.
Always pointing me to the party bops, love you Hazey!
Upon further listening maybe it's not supposed to be a party but still bop.
The lowest high score at 8.5, which begs the question: How did it survive this far?
Taproot | Poem | 7.116 (+0.010 / +0.15 points)
Highest: 8.5x2 (@If You Go, @WowWowWowWow) 8.1x1 (@Untouchable Ace)
Lowest: 4x1 (@berserkboi) 6x2 (@livefrommelbs, @Sprockrooster)
Album: Welcome - 2002
Charting: 92 106
"Poem" was the lead single from Taproot's second major-label release Welcome in 2002. It gained a lot of airplay and became easily their most successful single. It was the 5th most played rock song in 2002.
During the production of Welcome, Taproot had given their producer about 40 completed songs, which he said were not up to their potential and forced them to start from scratch. However, "Poem" was actually written long before the band started working with Wright. Guitarist Mike DeWolf elaborated: "That's actually the first song we wrote for the album. . . We played it at the 2001 Ozzfest and there was a big reaction. The kids went nuts for it even more than to our other songs that they'd heard a million times before. In production we changed little things here and there to make it stronger, but it's basically the same song."
Taproot worked with directing team Brothers Strause, whose other work includes Linkin Park and Godsmack.
Not really a lot to say about Taproot as they are one of the smallest bands of the time, but I felt like they had a sound that would be deemed more pleasant by new listeners. They've beaten quite a few heavyweights here. The biggest thing about them is how Fred Durst discovered them and wanted to sign them to Interscope, but Taproot had other plans and with the help of System of a Down, swerved Durst's deal and signed with Atlantic instead. Durst would retaliate by leaving a nasty message on Taproot vocalist Stephen Richards's answering machine. Then he kicked System of a Down off the 1999 Family Values Tour. Welcome is okay, it has aged terribly though and I'd rather listen to anything from Gift 100 times more. Despite both albums sounding like Taproot as its own brand or style, Gift had something working for it that made sound more unique and fresh. When I got into a car accident senior year of high school and was in the hospital, one of the first thing I asked for was my CD player with Gift in it. The album means a lot. Gift is also the last time I ever bought a cassette tape.
@berserkboi - 4 - Didn’t love
But did you love anything?
@DominoDancing - 6.5 - This never really made it across the pond. Not bad, but rather bland, so its apparent success in the US is a bit of a puzzler.
Not a lot of success here either, in a broad sense, but for nu metal you really can't mention the genre without them.
@unnameable – 7.5 – I like the lyrics to this one.
Their alright, but I include another song that helped me out a lot over the years and has better songwriting in my opinion.
My favorite song of theirs from Gift, a song simply titled "I".
Their breakthrough nu metal hit "Again and Again" from Gift. Their style reminds me of why I got into a phase where all I wanted to wear was button down shirts like the one Taproot band members are often wearing.
Some of these bands were such a mess ddd
What is messier is the actual phone message:
"Hey man, you fucked up. You don't ever bite the hand that feeds in this business, bro . . . Took you under my wing, brought you to my house, talked about you on FM radio and press, and you embarrassed me and the Interscope family. Your association with Limp Bizkit doesn't exist. Your manager slings our name around, he's gonna be blackballed and probably be erased, and you will, too. He's a fucking idiot. You're gonna fucking learn from this time right here I hope you let your band know that you just fucked yourself. You need to be associated with somebody in this business, to put you out there and believe in you. Now you got enemies. Don't fucking show up at my shows cause if you do, you're gonna get fucked. You and your fucking punk ass man. You're learning right now exactly how to ruin your career before it gets started. All the luck, brother, fuck you."
Well I'd better re-listen to Poem and remind myself what it sounds like seeing as how I'm one of the highest scorers! Hmmm the 8.5 is seeming a little high now, I wonder if coming after Push It boosted it.
Let's do a little double-header as we close in on the point of the rate where we'll start hitting on the main acts.
#34 and #33
Chevelle | The Red | 7.197 (+.081 / 1.30 points)
Highest: 10x1 (@DJHazey) 8.9x1 (@Untouchable Ace)
Lowest: 4x1 (@iheartpoptarts) 4.5x1 (@Ironheade)
Album: Wonder What's Next - 2002
Vocalist Pete Loeffler once said that this song was about someone getting so angry at the world, life, and just about anything and everything, that he actually begins to see red.
The video for was filmed in a Baptist church. In it the lead singer goes to an anger management class and sees all the anger which is inside the people there
Former Major League Baseball player Geoff Blum used "The Red" as his intro song when he came up to bat.
The song played for the nominee montage of The Ring at the 2003 MTV Movie Awards.
"The Red" was also used during the 2021 WWE Hall of Fame ceremonies.
All three of those connections to media highlight something that can often be attached to anger: sports, horror, pro wrestling. The chorus is striking with how Pete straddles the line between rough and clean vocals on that "laaay" part and the rest of it. If you listen to Chevelle, you'll notice that it's the clean vocals that dominate their material, so I wouldn't be afraid of it. Plus the music is oftentimes very ethereal in nature and atmospheric. Was my 10 a little high in retrospect? Maybe, because I like many songs from this album a bit more than "The Red" but I really wanted to represent Chevelle because they were always one of my favorites from this time period.
@berserkboi - 5 - Another one I forgot as soon as finished!
Me with the first-half of the Les Hommmes section!
@DominoDancing - 7 - I enjoy this musically, the chorus feels a bit empty though.
Hmm, for my money there's definitely a few less impactful choruses in this rate.
@livefrommelbs - 8.5 - An excellent new discovery! Good stuff.
@Maki - 8.5 - Very well-crafted overall, though I feel it could pack even more of a punch.
I'll put another selection for you below.
Here's a little gem for y'all, something a little different. "An Evening With El Diablo" is a journey, that's all I'm going to say. Despite the title, it sounds a bit more peaceful than you may think.
(The artwork is me praying for your taste dd)
Adema | Giving In | 7.200 (+.003 / 0.05 points)
Highest: 10x2 (@iheartpoptarts, @DJHazey) 9x1 (@Maki)
Lowest: 4x1 (@berserkboi) 5x2 (@CorgiCorgiCorgi, @DominoDancing)
Album: Adema - 2001
This was Adema's debut single and even though you could argue "Unstable" might have become their most well-known song, this is still up there.
"Giving In" appeared on the Now 9 album and was on an AT&T Mobile commercial at the time, which helped get the word out about the band.
Though I've never seen Mark Chavez say anything specifically, it's clear the song is rooted in the idea of giving into your weaknesses (or addictions).
I've already spoken about how much I love this band when I did a little write-up for them. They're probably my favorite among all 'second tier' bands. Their first two albums are both bulletproof to me and still are to this day. I know @Twitch Mo also loves both albums, nearly as much, so I'm shocked he only gave an 8/10. I will have to speak with him about this one.
@berserkboi - 4 - Not terrible, but not something I’d choose to hear
Fair, because that's how I would describe my 4's and 5's.
@DominoDancing - 5 - Muddy production, and the clean vocals are...shaky. A song among millions.
Mark isn't really the most talented vocalist, but for me he does everything he can with what he has. I've never been one to stan for vocal perfection anyways.
@livefrommelbs - 8 - The only Adema song I ever knew was 'Brand New Thing' from their 2007 album, which I love. More than this, tbh, but this is still good!
That's after Mark left the band, so I was checked out by then.
@unnameable – 8 – seems very Linkin Park-lite these days
Hey that's why they're hear right?
@Maki - 9 - I love the instrumental, very cleverly used double guitar riff to achieve that effect. Very angsty, too. Shame the chorus is the weakest part of the song. Great discovery anyway.
Yeah it's not the catchiest, admittedly. "Trust" that I posted before goes off in that regard. I'll post another here too.
Here's another favorite from the album. Very much like "Trust" but this one seems to talk about dealing with loss of life and needing to re-connect with that person. It's very powerful writing.
This hate for Paradis bleeding into this thread too @DJHazey? Comment Peux-Tu Me Faire Ça??
One of my lowest scores (7) is met with the first song to have 3+ 10's in quite some time.
Hoobastank | Crawling in the Dark | 7.228 (+.028 average / 0.45 points)
Highest: 10x3 (@livefrommelbs, @If You Go, @WowWowWowWow) 8x1 (@Twitch Mo)
Lowest: 3x1 (@berserkboi) 5x1 (@soratami)
Album: Hoobastank - 2001
Charting: 47 68
Of course everyone already knew "The Reason", which made it all the way to #2 on the Hot 100 in 2003. So I expected people would be surprised when they first heard this one. Kind of like "I had no idea they used to sound like this" for reactions and during the watch2gether session, that's what I got. To me, it's become rather generic sounding compared to a lot of the songs here, but was their most nu metal song, so my hands were tied. I love "Remember Me" far more, but determined it was not quite the same hit for them.
"Crawling in the Dark" was their breakthrough hit however. In fact, all three singles including "Running Away" and "Remember Me" got a lot of play back then and were pretty well known in alternative rock communities.
The song had profound appearances in media to help promote the band. This included appearances on various video games like Karaoke Revolution, soundtracks for The Fast and the Furious, and Mountain Dew ad campaigns.
@berserkboi - 3 - Better than The Reason!
I agree and the gap between the two is far more than this.
@Ana Raquel - 6 - Blah I'd rather keep knowing them as band "the reason".Knowing that song takes points away from them as far I'm concerned.@Maki - 6.75 - This would make for a good pop-rock song for a female singer. Still, I'm not a fan of the song. It's okay, I guess.You'll have lots of fun in the Women of Hard Rock rate where you don't have to use your imagination like this.@unnameable – 7.5 – Hoobastank were always pretty melodic@DominoDancing - 7.5 - I hated this back in the day, and I don't know why? It's quite boppy!That was part of me wanting to include them, they were a "metal for Popjustice' pick.@livefrommelbs - 10 - File this one under 'songs that I loved in my early high school years'. Always been a rock fave of mine - that chorus is UNDENIABLE.Yes, I will say the chorus rolls off the tongue, plus they had alot of energy here.@If You Go - 10 - I think this is the only other Hoobastank song I know besides The Reason, and I’ve always liked it a lot, nearly gave it the 10.5 for this section!I think you'd like they're other singles from this album.SongsI posted "Remember Me" before, so her is the other one "Running Away".----
From a band that I knew would be known for a bigger non-metal hit, to one I had no idea would be as well known as they ended up being.
Ill Niño | What Comes Around | 7.338 (+.110 average / 1.75 points)
Highest: 9x2 (@iheartpoptarts, @DJHazey) 8.5x2 (@Twitch Mo, @Ana Raquel)
Lowest: 5.5x2 (@berserkboi, @unnameable) 6x1 (@DominoDancing)
Album: Revolution Revolución - 2001
Charting: 81Well the mild UK success might explain why I'm surprised that people knew this. The band was quite literally the last one I added to the rate, thinking to myself "Well might as well throw a little unknown one in there for discoveries". Then when we did the watch2gether session, everyone seemed to be saying they already it and I was shocked. Their song "How Can I Live" was on the Freddy vs. Jason soundtrack, so if anything I figured someone might know that one. Otherwise I covered this band in their little write-up, and there really isn't much else to add to this post other than to say it being at #31 is truly one of the bigger underdog stories of the rate thus far.Commentary@berserkboi - 5.5 - I know this! It’s meh!I gets the image in my mind of you saying this an an excited fashion with both exclamations in the same tone of voice and it cracks me up.
@DominoDancing - 6 - Dddd those ten seconds of acoustic guitar are really not enough to give this song enough personality to really stand out.
I'd argue there isn't another band in the rate that sound quite like them.
@Maki - 8.25 - Not amazing, but feels oddly nostalgic and I love the switch-up during the middle-8. Great variation in the instrumental, too.
One person's 'meh' is another's 'interesting'.
@Ana Raquel - 8.5 - The chorus is quite underwhelming. Sad because I love the verses and the bridge.
Yeah actually I think I've always loved this band more for the verses, which always pop off.
I posted "How Can I Live" and album track masterpiece "I Am Loco" before, let me show you how this album opens up with a bang.
Nu Metal Sampler Songs That Made the Top 30
Alien Ant Farm | Movies
Crazy Town | Butterfly
Deftones | Change (In the House of Flies)
Disturbed | Stricken
Incubus | Drive
Korn | Freak on a Leash
Papa Roach | Last Resort
Rammstein | Du Hast
Rob Zombie | Dragula
TRUSTCompany | Downfall
We have one of the only two ties at #29 and both songs come from this section as well, but then at #28 we'll lose our first Main Act song.
36 Korn // Falling Away From Me 4
35 Taproot // Poem 6
34 Chevelle // The Red 2
33 Adema // Giving In 2
32 Hoobastank // Crawling in the Dark 5.5
I love The Reason. Like More Than Words a breakthrough hit that doesn't represent the band's "rockier" sound.
Extreme - More Than Words
31 Ill Niño // What Comes Around 5
Hopefully it's two of these three: Stricken, Du Hast and Downfall. Everything else got a 7+ score from me.
There is at least one song there I absolutely despise. But also a couple of classics, so not complaining.
BIG CATCH UP TIME
Click Click Boom: Another corny Bizkit-ish song with a marginally less irritating singer, but a way less interesting guitarist, and basically no personality, not even a funny/stupid one like the Bizkit. Also, it's mixed horribly, the guitar sounds like it's being played through a 50-watt practice amp, the drums sound like a box and the vocals are fifty times louder than everything else. Bye bye!
Down with the Sickness: Doofy thug-chug riffs combined with chimp noises and a child abuse solo? Not for me. At least David Draiman still shows off some vocal power and there's signs of better things to come. YOU'VE WOKEN UP THE DEMON, THE ANIME
My Own Summer: Y'all are wrong. That riff is just... satisfying.
Rollin': Actually pretty fun instrumentally, I like the scratching and those subtle slides on the guitar. Too bad Fred's rapping still sucks. At least he teaches us some aerobics on the chorus, that's nice.
Alive: Yeah, very stereotypical Christian rock, but it beats out "Youth of the Nation" by not having a GODDAMN CHILDREN'S CHORUS. Has a nice flow and decent sentiment, but the shouty chorus gets on my nerves a bit. (Christian metal... does not tend to be looked at well, given the roots of the genre. There are some OK examples out there though, the power metal band Theocracy is one I like.)
Praise: Lajon Witherspoon can take relatively average material and make it sound pretty damn great. This one has a good groove, great chorus, and I like the jangly guitar bridge and the vocal trade-offs on the chorus as well. (Side note, I ran across Sevendust's most recent album lately. They pretty much sound exactly the same now. There's something to be said for consistency, I've always said.)
Bodies: Stupid meathead song... but I won't lie, it does make you want to move, and it always went down well when I used to do a bit of DJing
at hard rock nights. Dave Williams is a pretty solid vocalist as well, sad that he died so young. Also, bonus points for meme value. (I CAN ONLY COUNT TO FOUR I CAN ONLY COUNT TO FOUR I CAN ONLY COUNT TO FOOOOOUUUUUR)
Falling Away from Me: Don't laugh, but I always liked this one more than "Freak on a Leash". Bit more mainstream-leaning maybe, but I feel like it has a better flow in its more melodic construction, and I like those high-pitched harmonic notes in the main riff a lot.
Poem: Ehhh... it's not bad, but it feels pretty generic. And I'll just leave that Fred Durst phone message here, because it's actually quoted in Louder Than Hell (the oral history of metal I refer to here quite a bit), and it's comedy gold. Seriously, this needs to be a copypasta.
---Frederick Durst, philosopher
The Red: Watered-down Tool that repeats the chorus way too much, that pretty much says it all, I think. The bridge picks it up a bit, I guess.
Giving In: It's alright, some interesting textures in the guitars on the verse, but again it doesn't bring much original to the table. Also, just because you're Jonathan Davis' half-brother doesn't mean you have to imitate him that hard...
Crawling in the Dark: I absolutely cannot stand "The Reason". Genuinely, it's one of my least favourite songs of the 2000's. So I was surprised that I actually got into this. A bit poor man's Incubus maybe, but that tempo change on the chorus is super tasty and the main effects-heavy guitar riff is really nice.
What Comes Around: Pretty solid. Nice vocals and catchy chorus, with the Latin interludes and percussion helping it to stand out from the pack. I'll be honest, I was kinda expecting Soulfly or even Sepultura for the Latin contingent in this rate, but I'm happy with this one here.
"Crawling" should be the first Linkin Park song to go. And come to think of it, is "Butterfly" still hanging around? Get it out!
Justice for “Send The Pain Below”
“I liked having hurt”? Is this a Scandinavian Eurovision entry or something??
Ha, I always used to hear "I-I-I-I like how being hurt"
Separate names with a comma.