B.Y.O.B (Bring Your Own Ballot) | The Nu Metal Rate | Winner Revealed | Page 3 | The Popjustice Forum

B.Y.O.B (Bring Your Own Ballot) | The Nu Metal Rate | Winner Revealed

Discussion in 'Charts, rates etc' started by DJHazey, Oct 11, 2021.

  1. Amazing @Ironheade. Love the Fear Factory mention. Obsolete is one of my favorite albums, it had a dark industrial edge to it and songs like Securitron and Freedom or Fire had amazing intros that really created amtospheres unlike anyone else at the time. I do think 2001's Digimortal is probably a better example of them trying to do nu metal though. But I still think of Obsolete as a legendary nu metal album, kind of like Chimiaira's Pass Out of Existence.

    Check this out guys:

    I also love that you mention hair metal. I wanted to insert that in there somewhere but my timelines kind started after its death but to me its almost like hair metal was nu metal before nu metal. Kind of 'popularized version of metal' that true metalheads would sneer at. That is why I often joke that nu metal is like 'pop metal'.

    I story of the person who latched on to nu metal was very much me in 7th/8th grade. My first experiences of buying albums were stuff like Presidents of the USA or No Doubt but I think I always wanted something 'harder' yet still being 'poppy' (thats why I eventually became a pop fan too). Also, I was one who latched onto metalcore when it first broke as we saw in Ultimate Popstars artist ranks, when I had Atreyu and Avenged Sevenfold on my list.
  2. Icons only!
  3. Oh my God. That is epic.
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  4. Nu Metal Encyclopedia

    Let's take a tour through the genre, touching on all the key songs and albums from A-Z that I think should get a quick spotlight. First up is Anchorage, Alaska's 36 Crazyfists. For me, I never got into them as far getting any of their albums. To be honest, they weren't really a big name in nu metal necessarily, most of their more popular material was when they moved to a post-hardcore/metalcore sound, as evidenced by "Bloodwork" being mentioned as a possibility back when I was asking for song suggestions. While I agree "Bloodwork" is a good song, it was "Slit Wrist Theory" that got more attention from fellow nu metal listeners, from their second album Bitterness the Star. You can imagine how amazing "Get the fuck out, stay the fuck out" sounded to a young Hazey, especially with the little pause before it comes in. I was never going to consider it for this rate because 1. The song/band aren't big enough in the grand scheme of things. 2. The lyrics, made obvious in the title, could be triggering for some people.

    Next is one of the darker bands, lyrically, which is 40 Below Summer. This New York/New Jersey based band wasn't really a big name either, unless you were really into nu metal then 40 Below Summer will always get a mention. I was really into their second album Invitation to the Dance, which has some really crazy stuff on it. Some of the songs like "Rejection" and "Jonesin" have borderline disturbing lyricism and there's high energy throughout the record. In 2015, VH1 ranked it as #9 on their "12 most underrated nu metal albums" list, so that confirms what I'm saying. I tried to get into the follow-up The Mourning After but besides a couple minor moments like "Taxi Cab Confession" or "Rain", it failed to deliver to their standards. From their nu metal peak of Invitation to the Dance, I'll pick "Rope" though, not because it's my favorite which would be the softer "Wither Away" or insanity of "Rejection", but because it's often mentioned as the favorite among fans.

    Into a couple "A' bands, we arrive at couple that are in this very rate. Starting with Bakersfield California's Adema with lead singer Mark Chavez, who happens to be the half-brother to Korn's Jonathan Davis. For that reason, I probably could've jokingly thrown them on the 'Vanilla Nu Metal/Bands Trying to Be Korn' list, but more often than not they fall in the 'Post-Grunge' category. Most their best music, and they have alot of it, comes from the emotional side of things lyrically. My favorite songs of theirs have deep meaning and have helped me get through tough moments in my life. Their first two albums Adema (2001) and Unstable (2003) are underrated because they should be discussed as top-tier nu metal, but never are. Don't get me wrong, Adema was always considered in the mix of bands you'd mention in the genre and they had a few hit songs, compared to alot of other bands. I just think their was alot of "they're too whiny" from the 'go hard or go home' crowd that I could never understand. It's the same arguments you see against Puddle of Mudd, but I can agree with them in that case. Twitch Mo played the living hell out of those two albums and I know every song from them like the back of my hand. I picked "Giving In" over "The Way You Like It" even though I'd probably rate the latter higher, barely. It's because "The Way You Like It" has a couple questionable lyrics I didn't want it getting raked over the coals for. The title-track from Unstable actually ended up getting the most airplay from its video and appeared on a couple video games like Madden and I swear it was on a Mortal Kombat too. However, this time, since Adema is one of my all-time favorites (they were on my Ultimate Popstars list), I'm going to throw out a deep cut and invite you into the world of "Trust" which has alot of trippy elements going for it, with passionate words and ethereal vocals from Mark. I think Popjustice would really love it if they gave it a chance:

    Last band we'll touch upon today is Riverside California's Alien Ant Farm, one of the more 'pop-punk' bands of the rate's entries. Back in the day, I never really considered them to be nu metal but now looking at any list about the genre, I see that at least with their commercial peak Anthology in 2001, they definitely were considered as such. I remember listening to this album once or twice, but I was really only a singles guy with them. All of the singles from this album are great. Everyone knows "Smooth Criminal" and "Movies", but "Attitude" was solid too. I didn't choose "Smooth Criminal" because of the person it covers and I wanted to avoid covers anyway, even know it was much a bigger hit for the band. "Movies" was still pretty big though, so it was easy second choice. I'll throw out "Attitude" as a possible first listen though.

    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
  5. Oh man. Trust me, you're gonna have fun when you get to Trapt. I'll say no more!

    I had the distinctly odd experience of seeing Alien Ant Farm on the main stage of Download... in 2016. When half the crowd is clearly just waiting for "Smooth Criminal", it doesn't really make for a good vibe, so I felt bad for them, in a way. They had decent stage presence though, and some of their other songs weren't bad from what I recall. (I actually don't mind "Smooth Criminal" as a novelty genre-swap cover, either.)

    I do love these Wikipedia band member timelines. There's some good nu-metal ones about to find. Adema's, for instance.


    Let's just say, Ryan Shuck should probably keep a close eye out for bizarre gardening accidents.
  6. I was planning to have Trapt in the rate until it was pointed out to me how they would not be ideal. Less extreme than why I never even considered Lostprophets but along the same lines.

    Yeah a lot of band timelines are insanity. I remember trying to follow them when I'd put together the little fact tables for each band in Ultimate Popstars. The flashbacks are giving me nightmares.
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  7. Nu Metal Encyclopedia

    Moving along, we arrive at another band in this rate and that's Illinois's Chevelle. Though one could argue that Chevelle is more of an alternative rock band, and in some cases I'd agree, their two most popular albums Wonder What's Next (2002) and This Type of Thinking (Could Do Us In) (2004) are both widely considered to be nu metal albums. What is interesting is this one of the very few bands, maybe the only the one in the genre in fact, to have only three members during their peak. The lead and backing vocals (as well as guitar and bass) were provided by brothers Pete and Joe Loeffler, while the drums were performed by the third brother Sam. Only Pete and Sam remain in the band today (it's unclear whether Joe was fired or left on his own accord in 2005, the former would have been pretty cold if true dd). Chevelle's nu metal output was definitely along the lines of post-grunge, with their harder songs being along the lines of Taproot or Adema's style. Pete has a beautiful softer side to his vocals that any pop fan could love. The first song I ever heard from them was on a local music store's Sample CD, a store called Bull Moose Music (still alive today, selling CDs, Books, DVDs, and video games) -- which had Chevelle's cover of Depeche Mode's "It's No Good" and I fell in love with it. The song would later appear on Wonder What's Next as a bonus track. They had three hit songs that were on the Hot 100 and I chose "The Red" because it was the highest charting one and more of nu metal moment when it came out. It's right up there for me with their next hit "Send the Pain Below", which I'd actually rank slightly higher. The best song on Wonder What's Next was always "Don't Fake This" though with a perfect blend of aggression and melodic moments. They're one of the few nu metal bands I actually kept listening to albums from later in the decade as Vena Sera (2007) and Sci-Fi Crimes (2009) are both loaded with alternative rock bops. I will pick "Send the Pain Below" though to show off their other big hit and see if I chose the right song for the rate.

    As I said before, I tried to not have too much of the 'extremely heavy' side of nu metal unless it was warranted. One example of me refraining from making this rate 'scary' for the new listener, was to leave out a band like Cleveland, Ohio's Chimaira. The band's name is derived from the monster in Greek mythology called Chimera, so this should tell you what you'd be in for. Only their debut album could be considered nu metal, which was Pass Out of Existence (2001), before they became a metalcore and groove metal band with their later releases. I remember vividly how in high school you'd see the hipster members of the hard rock cliques start wearing Chimaira t-shirts to school instead of Korn and Slipknot. This was what made me check this album out and I instantly fell in love with all of it. It's definitely one of the 'hardest' albums I've ever enjoyed in my life, since I usually have a limit on how hard I'll go. Stuff like early Avenged Sevenfold, early Atreyu, or Shadows Fall are examples of maybe the heaviest music I've ever stanned for. The album also has a heavy use of electronics that make me mentally categorize them with the industrial metal side of nu metal. Pass Out of Existence's atmosphere can best described as feeling like you're in some dungeon in the middle of a horror movie, without any hope of escaping. Some of the guitar riffs are so catchy though, that borderline with being a hardcore breakdown in nature. Prime example is with their opening track "Let Go" which I will link below. Wait until it gets going, you're going to start wondering where you are, what's happening, how did I get here exactly?, as the chaos comes pretty quickly when they start shredding everything in their path.

    Next up is a band that I'd say is definitely one the darker bands in the rate, but I had to include them because of how relevant they were to the genre and that's Los Angeles's Coal Chamber. The only two albums I messed with were their first two, Coal Chamber (1997) and Chamber Music (1999). Their third album Dark Days (2002) is also considered a nu metal album, but I wouldn't be able to tell how how any of its songs go. The best way for me describe Coal Chamber that sets it apart from a lot of other nu metal bands is by calling them one of the more 'gothic' brands of the genre. Apart from the horror movie man himself Rob Zombie, I imagine Coal Chamber's music being the best fit for a horror flick, especially on Chamber Music. I mean, just listen to "El Cu Cuy" once and you'll find it could easily represent a new horror movie series as the soundtrack of the film's beasty. The dungeon aesthetic I just described with Chimaira could definitely be applied to them, as far as a setting that their soundscape creates. However, Coal Chamber comes with music that is oftentimes more reined-in than Chimaira's and less chaotic. Although representing them with "Loco" probably doesn't do that description any justice dd. There wasn't any way I wasn't including "Loco" though because it's the first song any Coal Chamber listener will ever point you to and there's no debating that. I don't blame any new listeners who can't pick any words out when they first hear these verses. It's a classic nu metal song for a reason though. Since that's from their debut, which in my opinion is a rougher album, with the band finding their footing on Chamber Music, I'll choose "Shock the Monkey" as one of their 'lighter' songs, also being widely known. It's also one of Twitch Mo's favorites and features the legend himself, Ozzy Osbourne.

    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
  8. [​IMG]

    I was nearly going to write that this band seems to have a penchant for questionable cover versions, but then I realized I was thinking of Orgy and their Blue Monday cover. Oops!
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  9. Some of the more long-lived ones here. I kept hearing new Chevelle songs on the radio up to about 2016, Chimaira got bigger if anything when they switched to metalcore, and Dez from Coal Chamber's hung in there with Devildriver.

    Shame about Chimaira not being around any more or able to keep a stable line-up, because The Impossibility of Reason was a pretty banger album. But when all the members quit on Mark Hunter at once, twice, you have to wonder about him...
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  10. Make sure to check out the Depeche Mode cover by Chevelle I have linked too.
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  11. The Coal Chamber song that was played in all the rock clubs when I was young was...

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  12. Yup. "The roof is on fire". Easily the second most well known song on the album and a bop.
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  13. Nu Metal Encyclopedia

    Next up is a band I never got into much despite Twitch Mo stanning for them at the time and that's Jacksonville, Florida's Cold. Twitch Mo already sent me his ballot and mentioned that he thought a few of his favorite bands were left out. I think he might have been referring to Cold as an example, if I had asked him to specify. As mentioned in the history write-up, you can definitely categorize Cold right along with Staind in the 'post grunge' category of nu metal. As such, they've had a few albums that had nu metal moments on them, but the only one I would consider to be completely within the genre is 2000's 13 Ways to Bleed on Stage. They've certainly had other hit songs, including 2003's "Stupid Girl" (not a Garbage cover), but most fans of this band would agree that 13 Ways is their darkest album through and through. Vocalist Scooter Ward has a deep tone that I would best describe as giving Disturbed's David Draiman a run for his money, but not being as enjoyable for me. Scooter did make it on Hit Parader's Top 100 Heavy Metal vocalists list though (along with Draiman), so what do I know? I'll let you all decide if I made a mistake by not finding a spot for Cold, by bringing forth their best hit from this album which undoubtedly would be "Just Got Wicked".

    Now we arrive at a band who's entry in this rate probably isn't a nu metal song in itself, but the band definitely brought rap metal to the fore-front; that band being Los Angeles's Crazy Town. So yes, while there's definitely not a lot of rock elements in general involved with the rate's entry "Butterfly", there's no disputing how big it was for the genre. Well, it's more of a situation where we needed to make sure rap metal was represented by more than Limp Bizkit too. If you were to listen to The Gift of Game (1999), "Butterfly" would certainly stand out like a sore thumb because aggressive guitars and lyrics would be found elsewhere. Two members of the original lineup, guitarist Charles "Rust Epique" Lopez and keyboard/sampler Adam "DJ AM" Goldstein both passed away from drug related deaths in 2000s. So unfortunately, you could kind of say they lived their music because their lyrics entail hardcore party life, with drugs and alcohol heavily involved. What I do know though, is that this album was underrated because it has more to offer than "Butterfly", which is probably why a lot of people bought the album in the first place. "Toxic" and "Darkside" in particular, absolutely slap and represent what the rap metal style of nu metal is all about. They probably do the extreme end of subgenre about as well as Hed PE. I have included "Toxic" below. I hope Spotify includes a non-censored version of this amazing album someday; it still confuses me why the censored one is the only one there.

    Last but not least in this batch is a band on the fringes of nu metal so I didn't include them and that's South Carolina's Crossfade. This is another band you could put in the "post-grunge" pile. They had one huge hit that got to #81 on the Hot 100 that I almost included in the rate. However, I didn't feel the band itself was massive enough in the nu metal scene to get the nod. The song I'm referring to and will link below is of course "Cold", with elements of soft rock like a Hinder for example or Three Day Grace's "Never Too Late" (one of my favorite songs of all-time) but definitely also has metal infused too. Everyone must have heard that key line "What I really meant to say, Is I'm sorry for the way I am" at least once in their life, because it's pretty much pop and why it was big enough to reach the Hot 100. For these reasons, I think it could've done pretty well for itself. Their debut self-titled album (2004) was released after the true nu metal craze had already died down, but has a lot of harder songs like "Death Trend Setta", "No Giving Up", or "Disco" which really show off how 'metal' they really were at the time, so for that reason I wanted to mention them and add the album to nu metals essential catalogue.

  14. So there was Crossfade and "Cold", and there was Breaking Benjamin and "So Cold", and then there was the band Cold. Basically, if you liked post-grunge and low temperatures, oh boy, were 2003-04 the years for you!

    I still get a laugh out of Mr. Crossfade completely shutting the girl out during his guitar solo, and I have no idea why.
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  15. Don't forget arguably the best of all of them: Static-X's "Cold". (Although released a bit earlier than all of those and certainly not post-grunge at all, but I still had to mention it!)
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  16. So yes, I'd like to do a watch2gether session this Saturday if there is any interest. I think I can play through the entire song list in no more than 2 and a half hours, I'd say. I would prefer to start sometime around noon EST, so that would be 5pm in the UK, 6pm in central Europe, etc.

    I hope at least a few of you would be willing to join.

    @Maki, any chance you can link the youtube list to me again, I thought I added it to my favorites on Youtube but then I couldn't find it.
  17. Definitely count me in for that, it'll probably be where I get my preliminary votes going. Though I might have to tap out early, but I guess we can do another one later.
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
  18. Will be there! Probably acting like these two in the chat

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  19. Revenge for me during the indie rock playthrough and or some of the quirky rate sessions.
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  20. Nu Metal Encyclopedia

    Next we come to one of the biggest names in the genre, even if the band would hate even being mentioned here, and that's Sacramento, California's Deftones. The band was oftentimes associated with nu metal, but lead vocalist Chino Moreno has always emphatically rejected this idea. When asked about Deftones's similarity to Korn, Moreno said the commonality only came down to a shared-influence of the band Faith No More and the vocals of Mike Patton. Most critics say with the release of White Pony (2000), Deftones had moved beyond the label of nu metal but I still consider it as part of the landscape, probably selfishly. If I look at it objectively, then sure Deftones is a "step up" from the 'basicness' of nu metal's core sound; they're basically a progressive metal band that broke out "at the wrong time" if you ask its members. However, if nu metal hadn't been as popular as it was at the time, maybe they would have never had the commercial success they did. It's a double-edged sword in that regard. It was always a good thing to say you loved their music if you wanted any credibility as a heavy music goer though. One example for me was in art class during high school, there was a 'cool kid' in a band himself, who knew a lot more about music theory than I ever will and stuck their nose up at nu metal; in fact they laughed at it and me when I told him what I listened to. However, he said he would give me a pass because I liked Deftones, which was made obvious by the dark blue White Pony era t-shirt I often wore to school. I got into Deftones because of my first girlfriend, as they were her favorite band, and I'd often sing along to their songs over the phone and try to sound like Chino (Pathetic I know and impossible..). So yeah, Deftones, with Chino's ability to swerve from hellish screams to ambient whispers in the matter of seconds, was considered the band any nu metal fan wanted to have in their arsenal -- If they wanted anyone to take them seriously that is. I consider the first three albums, Adrenaline (1995), Around the Fur (1997), and White Pony (2000) to be inside this nu metal encyclopedia. Considering they always had elements of indie rock, progressive metal, alternative metal, post-hardcore, even stuff like trip-hop in their handbag, I'm excited to find out what new listeners will think about them. I think my two choices for the rate were pretty easy, considering they're two of the biggest hits for them during the era, but it's cool how you're going to hear two entirely different sounds from them. I'll go with another personal favorite here and that's their first music video, "Bored" which is going to show you exactly why Chino Moreno is widely considered one of the most diverse vocalists in the history of metal.

    We have two heavy-hitters on tap for today and another nu metal adjacent one at that, Chicago's Disturbed. Along with Chino Moreno, Korn's Jonathan Davis, and a few others, no other other nu metal vocalist is as highly regarded in metal communities than Disturbed's David Draiman. He was ranked #42 on Hit Parader's Top 100 Metal Vocalists list and that's probably severely underrating him because the writers who made that probably had reverse-recency bias dd. (I wonder if they wanted more classic bands near the top of the list, so it would appear to have more credibility) The best word to describe Draiman's vocals when they're at their best is haunting. There's a place he can go that no other vocalist can where it begins to sound like he is narrating a dark epic tale rather than singing. Even though Disturbed's topics are often some of the darkest, Draiman can make you feel at peace with his smooth-yet-demonic chants. They were also influenced by Faith No More, but often cite classic heavy metal bands such as Black Sabbath, Metallica, Pantera, Iron Maiden, or Judas Priest as their main inspirations; they always considered themselves simply a hard rock band not one that was part of any musical trends. Draiman said he never considered Disturbed to be a part of nu metal because they didn't use turntables or rap elements, but honestly I think that opinion is kind of short-sighted. One listen to The Sickness (2000) and you'd know it was one of the more prominent examples of nu metal at its very core. You can certainly tell when Believe (2002) arrived, Disturbed was doing more of what they probably wanted to do and in my opinion its their best album, but wasn't as commercially explosive as the two albums touched on in the rate. I almost made a personal choice and went with Believe's "Prayer", so I'll go ahead and link it below. This is a prime example of Draiman just showing off vocally, with his uncanny ability to provide catchy melodic hooks that sound like he is harmonizing with himself. It's like a metal version of power pop with these choruses and the entire album is a collection of it. One of my favorite records of all time, for sure. Ten Thousand Fists (2005) started to bring a more 'classic metal' sound yet also brought back some of their older nu metal stuff from The Sickness; it's kind of an interesting infusion really. After that, I think Disturbed completely left all evidence behind, that they were ever a nu metal band in the first place.

    (Note how religious this song maty seem, but I think Draiman, despite being Jewish himself, writes music that questions religious practices with lyrics that often sound like they're coming from an atheistic place. That's how I always saw them anyway.)
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
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