BIG POP GIRLS 2022 - THE END
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He/Him
No, we don't.
she/her
Sorry to continue the Folklore discourse in this thread but the idea that longtime Swifties don't like Folklore as much as Midnights is kinda insane. Apart from the arguments already made above, not the most scientific survey obviously but in a recent survey of the Taylor Reddit (11k people voted), Folklore was voted her best album:
It's very much a fan favourite.
It's very much a fan favourite.
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They sure were.
Any/All
But darling Midnights would actually benefit from her exploring others' stories instead of bulldozing us with her quirks, easter eggs, "engaging BPMs" (literally where), did-you-knows, and tabloid/TikTok fodder. Her "hiding in the pages of others' stories" came off as refreshing for an artist so obsessed with self-mythologizing. In all fairness, I could give two shits who the song is about if it's a good one - I mean Enchanted was written about the guy from Owl City. Yes it might add bonus points if you know the lore, but a good song is a good song, and it shouldn't need a background check to convince you that it's good.
Also funny you would argue for songwriting quality on Midnights by using the example of tracks that could actually sit comfortably on folklore and evermore. I guess it makes sense cause you wouldn't find that on the likes of Question...?, Lavender Haze or Mastermind.
he/him
I'm not sure you get what I'm talking about and thus have no clue what point you're trying to make in response. No one is talking about "tabloid fodder". We're talking about pop music and the art of "keeping it simple, stupid".
No one said Would've, Could've, Should've works because it's "tabloid fodder". It works because it's a first person account of regret and anger. That directly tackling the subject isn't any less powerful or meaningful than writing the same song from the perspective of a 1920s saloonist estranged from her oil tycoon lover who lived within the rocky beaches of Rhode Island that Taylor once read about in the pages of an old newspaper.
That there's an art to pop music without pretension, posturing or a creative writing BFA.
I don't begrudge anyone for enjoying either album or ranking them as her best, but the like.. sheer revulsion and contortions performed when suggested Midnights is just as strong of an album is.. a lot. Like, that sepia is doing a lot of heavy lifting!
Actually!
Pop songwriting is indeed a craft that some people actually do like!
Any/All
That was precisely my point about Would've Could've Should've - a good pop song is a good pop song. When I mentioned "tabloid fodder" it was in the context of the things present on the album as a whole, which is why it was listed along with other elements that you conveniently forgot to take out of their context. At the end of the day, it's really not about whether the songs are written in the third or first person. Midnights would be a good album if any of its "first person accounts" came remotely close to first person accounts in tracks like peace or marjorie.
The fact still remains that Taylor has spent a significant portion of her career (and especially the last decade) in extensive self-fashioning that for many fans started to be grating around the time of Reputation. That's why her using someone else's perspective to speak from came across as a welcome change for so many listeners - and it's probably part of the reason why Midnights' backtracking didn't go unnoticed. And of course, we don't have to agree on that one, it's very legit for you to find folklore and evermore challenging and pretentious, but I actually think she never sounded so effortless as on these two albums. Her working the word "Machiavellian" into the verbal vomit bridge you praise so much comes off as far more pretentious than her whole "indie era".
he/him
If disliking Midnights is posturing because it came after Folklore/Evermore, then how come people never cared much about Lover, which is in the same sonic landscape bar the Joel Little tracks?
I like songs on both Midnights and Lover, by the way, so even if I find both albums bland as a whole I still think there's something to enjoy in them. And it's not like Folklore/Evermore are some utter alternative anti-pop pieces of work either.
I like songs on both Midnights and Lover, by the way, so even if I find both albums bland as a whole I still think there's something to enjoy in them. And it's not like Folklore/Evermore are some utter alternative anti-pop pieces of work either.
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he/him
Perfect segue to some Ellie promo!
Hmm while I don't necessarily agree in terms of placing the albums, I get what @Sanctuary is saying with the reception to folklore/evermore vs. Midnights.
I think folklore functioned in the same way as 1989 in her career as a means of giving her a new approach to songwriting and resetting her technique a bit: 1989 tightened her writing just as folklore created more space, and it freshened up her musicality without sacrificing the melodies with which she's always exceled. That being said, I think people tend to overlook certain lyrics while being overly harsh on others depending what album we're discussing: Bad Blood being the obvious example but also there are multiple mentions of clowns on folklore which has always kinda irked me nn.
I think folklore functioned in the same way as 1989 in her career as a means of giving her a new approach to songwriting and resetting her technique a bit: 1989 tightened her writing just as folklore created more space, and it freshened up her musicality without sacrificing the melodies with which she's always exceled. That being said, I think people tend to overlook certain lyrics while being overly harsh on others depending what album we're discussing: Bad Blood being the obvious example but also there are multiple mentions of clowns on folklore which has always kinda irked me nn.
He/Him
Literally any and every long-time Taylor fan hearing "Midnights is better than folkmore"
Kate Bush’s entire career INVALIDATED.
he/him
Not to go on a tangent but honestly if anything I find the most interesting songwriters tell stories outside of their own experiences but manage to relate to them anyway. To take specific experience and translate them into universally understandable feelings. "And then it was bought by me" kind of moments.
He/Him/His
Hmmm... I don't think anyone here would truly argue there's no art in unpretentious pop music. I'm also not gonna knock anyone too much for revisiting tropes in their own universe until the songs suffer because of it1 – and, for me, a lot of Midnights' melodies and lyricism aren't just cloyingly familiar, they're outright redundant. I'd rather listen to her songs where she did it better. There's just not enough meat on Midnights' bones for it to sit alongside the strongest albums in my Taylor pantheon. What I will agree with is that You're On Your Own, Kid is an example of her songwriting at its peak.
1 I still have nightmares about Miss Americana and the Heartbreak Prince
1 I still have nightmares about Miss Americana and the Heartbreak Prince
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Um, this is a 10/10 what are you talking about.
He/Him/His
The lyrics make me want to kill myself and the song should be as maligned as I Forgot You Existed, ME!, You Need to Calm Down, and London Boy
he/him
36
7.9186
11 x 1
@DinahLee
HIGHEST SCORE: 10 x 16 (@man.tis.shrimp, @Dijah, @fatyoshi, @eatyourself, @Dangerous Maknae, @GimmeWork, @Jersey, @Andy French, @Purple, @aaronhansome, @klow, @Laurence, @Isobel, @papatrick, @thommyh, @heavymetalgaga)
LOWEST SCORE: 4 x 3 (@Verandi, @Monkey Meat, @Remyky22)
MY SCORE: 7
"Twice" is actually an incredibly morbid song, in a weird, comforting way. The song is about worrying about what comes after our lives and how our lives are temporary. It's also about the comfort of knowing that our lives are so futile that they're temporary - we should not think twice about our actions because, at the end of the day, in the large scheme of things, these actions do not matter.
"Nothing is forever, lucky to remember" is quite possibly my favourite line on the song. It's something I think about a lot. It's not easy to think about life as temporary, but it does help to change your mindset on life. I think there's something beautiful about everything we do being temporary and how time just keeps going forward even if we linger on specific moments. I don't know, it's just... healthy knowing that all of this is temporary in some way?
When talking about this song, Charli XCX described the song as being " a very important song to me because I’ve never written a song about the end of the world and this is what “Twice” is about, so it’s a different subject matter for me. I was kind of just thinking about you know how it would feel if/when the world ends, who I would think about, who I would miss, what memories I would keep at the front of my mind, and whether I would feel I lived my life exactly the way that I wanted to live it."
7.9186
11 x 1
@DinahLee
HIGHEST SCORE: 10 x 16 (@man.tis.shrimp, @Dijah, @fatyoshi, @eatyourself, @Dangerous Maknae, @GimmeWork, @Jersey, @Andy French, @Purple, @aaronhansome, @klow, @Laurence, @Isobel, @papatrick, @thommyh, @heavymetalgaga)
LOWEST SCORE: 4 x 3 (@Verandi, @Monkey Meat, @Remyky22)
MY SCORE: 7
"Twice" is actually an incredibly morbid song, in a weird, comforting way. The song is about worrying about what comes after our lives and how our lives are temporary. It's also about the comfort of knowing that our lives are so futile that they're temporary - we should not think twice about our actions because, at the end of the day, in the large scheme of things, these actions do not matter.
"Nothing is forever, lucky to remember" is quite possibly my favourite line on the song. It's something I think about a lot. It's not easy to think about life as temporary, but it does help to change your mindset on life. I think there's something beautiful about everything we do being temporary and how time just keeps going forward even if we linger on specific moments. I don't know, it's just... healthy knowing that all of this is temporary in some way?
When talking about this song, Charli XCX described the song as being " a very important song to me because I’ve never written a song about the end of the world and this is what “Twice” is about, so it’s a different subject matter for me. I was kind of just thinking about you know how it would feel if/when the world ends, who I would think about, who I would miss, what memories I would keep at the front of my mind, and whether I would feel I lived my life exactly the way that I wanted to live it."
I like that "Twice" feels like Charli's take on a J-Pop/Perfume song. That vocal hook.