BIG POP GIRLS 2024

I felt as a young Black woman that I couldn’t mess up. I felt the pressure from the outside and their eyes watching for me to trip or fail. I couldn’t let my family down after all the sacrifices they made for me and the girls.

This is exactly how I feel about legacy part of the song! I think about my family and ancestors and how I have to make them proud.I’ve got something to prove in their memory as Beyonce says.
 
I just love how… lethal Von Dutch sounds, obviously amplified its excellent video, but its fang barely withheld, teetering on the edge in a manner so unhinged one wrong movement will lead to total destruction - Furiosa Monster Truck burning across the cityscape while mayhem.mp3 takes place. A banger for maladjusted girls!
 
Nah, sorry, "Von dutch" is a dissonant trainwreck which drives Charli's wellworn formula of basically yelling into Melodyne completely into a ditch. I also remember it having a far cooler reception on here than its performance in this rate would suggest, until - surprise! - the album became a hit and once again the forum's favourite cinnabun and every faggot's adopted little sister could once again do no wrong. I hope she's okay and has good people around her :/
 
Nah, sorry, "Von dutch" is a dissonant trainwreck which drives Charli's wellworn formula of basically yelling into Melodyne completely into a ditch. I also remember it having a far cooler reception on here than its performance in this rate would suggest, until - surprise! - the album became a hit and once again the forum's favourite cinnabun and every faggot's adopted little sister could once again do no wrong. I hope she's okay and has good people around her :/

I'm pretty sure most people were here for it initially though, at least after the video dropped. If anything a #29 placement seems about right for a song that was well received by the majority but which is just a bit too abrasive to be everybody's cup of tea. This "people only like it because the album was a hit" narrative doesn't really sound accurate.
 
I don't like a song so I will just try and gaslight the forum into accepting my opinion.

"Nah, sorry"

4oigdH.gif
 

Solenciennes

Staff member
Whilst that it would be extremely difficult to argue that Beyoncé doesn't (now) lead a pretty enchanted life and status that very few people could even dream of ascending to, it would be foolish to deny the sacrifices she's likely made to get there. 16 Carriages helps to scratch at Beyoncé's veneer, as she laments at the loss of her youthful innocence and the responsibilities and burdens that were place upon her shoulders during her teenager years as essentially being her family's main breadwinner. In an interview back in 2021 - a year or so after 16 Carriages was presumably written given the '38 summers' line - she said the following:

'I felt as a young Black woman that I couldn’t mess up. I felt the pressure from the outside and their eyes watching for me to trip or fail. I couldn’t let my family down after all the sacrifices they made for me and the girls. That meant I was the most careful, professional teenager and I grew up fast. I wanted to break all of the stereotypes of the Black superstar, whether falling victim to drugs or alcohol or the absurd misconception that Black women were angry. I knew I was given this amazing opportunity and felt like I had one shot. I refused to mess it up, but I had to give up a lot.'

I can appreciate the good nature in which they're often intended, but with this in mind, those clips of Beyoncé's supposed 'diva' moments during her time in Destiny's Child don't always sit right with me.​

Among the biggest swings on the album, 16 Carriages feels like it has the highest stakes of the album because it is asking a lot of the listener to forget that they're listening to a wealthy woman talk about struggles and sacrifice. I think she succeeds by strength of delivery and maybe by dint of it being the first time in a long time that she's offered relatability in a song? She's been this elusive figure for a decade+, maybe that's why this song works for me.

The quote mentioned in the write up summarises this beautifully for me, because for example I find her Jolene cover a bit crass because it's about Jay-Z, a routine fuck up, in juxtaposition with her curated, cautious public image. That guiding thought that she can't ever make a mistake, not just a telltale sign of a perfectionist, but an all consuming fear. That's a heartbreaking paragraph, really, it's created this incredible career and glittering legacy that she's still adding to, but you get the sense that she's not been able to relax, ever. It's a double edged sword and it's really piercing to see her acknowledge it quite succinctly as an explanation for the song and also for her public persona.

Ultimately knocked off a point because I do have some reservations about the production being a bit grandiose and style over substance, but, the emotional gut punch she delivers made it a solid 9 for me.
 
She/her
I gave 16 Carriages a 9.5 because it wasn't quite a 10 for me but I do think it is one of her best songs and it does make me quite emotional (and I'm not really someone who gets emotional over music. TV shows and films can reduce me to tears easily but I've never really felt sad before while listening to a song).
 
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Von dutch was polarizing on release, there was just a very loud subset of fans gooning over that gay crack synth so if you don't remember the former you were probably part of the latter!
I mean I get what you're saying, but I think the perception that it was polarizing here was actually because of the other "loud subset" of it's detractors like @Vasilios (loves an opportunity to remind us he hates it <3) while most of us just enjoyed and bopped in silence, which is reflected in it's high score and placement here.
 

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