Discussion in 'TV + Film' started by ADolla, Feb 22, 2009.
Ha! This gif has me howling. David was good looking, but eh. He wasn’t all that, especially by the time that he left Buffy and Angel began.
You don’t like one of the best episodes of the series?
A Xander stan? Will wonders never cease?
You think that's bad I'm infamous for the fact that I think Spike and Dawn are two of the best characters in the series.
I said I liked one Xander centric episode. Didn’t know that turned one into a stan
I like Dawn in retrospect, even though I couldn't stand her back in the day. She actually fits right in.
Having just rewatched, I don't think that's too controversial. I mean, obviously Spike has his utterly horrendous moments (but I put that more down to Joss being a particular horror towards the end of the show's run), but he's a generally likeable character throughout the show's run, and James Marsters does an excellent job of bringing a great deal of necessary charm to the character to pull it into the anti-hero territory the show is desperate to drive him into (if in quite a clumsy way).
Dawn is annoying as fuck in S5 (and somewhat in S6), but alongside Joyce's death, the character allows for Buffy to make that shift into a more responsible figure in the latter seasons in a pretty realistic way. By S7, she's actually quite a likeable and useful character that gets a few interesting plotlines.
Xander is pretty much irredeemable. The worst main character by far.
I like Xander a lot. He can be very annoying sometimes and he's not always a good guy but I like him. I like all the main characters, honestly.
Dawn definitely was super annoying in her first season but by season 7, I love her. I wish she was written like that from the start.
Spike was great up until season six. I wish they'd killed him off either at the end of season 5 during the battle with Glory or somewhere along the line in season 6. Basically, any time before he became a rapist. If his 'arc' had concluded early (and to me, the most natural time would have been the end of season 5) we'd have had a lot more room to properly explore Willow, Xander, Anya, and Buffy's storylines in season 7.
Xander definitely got annoying (and increasingly useless, as they basically refused to write for anyone but Spike in season 7...) but I'll always have huge love for the core 4 scoobies.
I think I'm in the minority that loved season 5 Dawn, if only because of The Gift. I mean, sis was ready to jump to her death to save the world. Season 6 Dawn was definitely a bit aimless at first (wtf was that klepto story?), but by 7 it did feel like she was more of a fully formed character.
A shame Xander followed the reverse character arc. "The Zeppo" is one of my favorite episodes of the series and a great showcase of what the Xander character is all about. But by the end of the series he really does end up being the Zeppo of the group.
I really like Hell's Bells (I'm also a major fan of season 6 as a whole), but on rewatches, I always wish they had gone about the breakup in another way. I know there was always that undercurrent of them not entirely being suited to each other (Once More With Feeling, Tabula Rasa), but it was always presented in an odd couple kind of way.
I feel like once Xander knows that the vision was a lie, there's no real reason for him to leave. Had they built this element up in some kind of way (although I wouldn't want any of that storyline to go down any kind of dark route) then it would have made the conclusion more believable.
I finished a season six rewatch a few months ago, and I enjoyed it much more than I did years ago when I first saw it. The standalone episodes that pushed the overall arc for each character forward (Tabula Rasa or Older and Far Away, for example) were a lot better than anything involving the Trio IMO.
I don’t mind the conclusion of HB as I’ve always felt that Xander had cold feet quite early on. As you said, the writers made them seem mismatched, but I’ve always looked at it as signs that Xander was seriously starting to reconsider his decision rather than just little doubts one would get and the false vision just gave him an excuse to act on those doubts even though he knew it was magic.
And Anya deserved better in the end, let’s be real, so she kinda dodged a bullet unlike Tara ddd
TOO SOON! *cries*
And actually, when you put it like that I can definitely look at it in a different way. I think I was always looking at it in terms of the violence of the vision. But as you say, he'd always had cold feet, so I guess he knew that at some point marrying Anya would result in him resenting her.
And as you say Anya deserved so much better than Xander. And I've always loved that final shot when she looks up at D'Hoffryn. So much is said in just that look alone. And it's a real "Oooh shit" moment, even all these years later.
The entire thing felt like a sitcom with all of the family's unfunny antics and I didn't buy the Xander leaving Anya thing one bit. Seemed liked forced drama. I usually see dislike of this episode to be honest. Anyone who likes this episode
Last time I rewatched, season 6 was better than it had ever previously been to me, and season 7 was worse than it had ever previously been to me. I warm more and more to the cheese and low budget horror movie nature of season 1 with every rewatch.
Crazy how much rankings continue to shift 20 years later as we get older. 2, 3, and 5 are cemented as the best seasons, though.
Yesss. There is something nostalgic about those early eps that, weirdly, get better (or maybe more comforting) with age.
So I just watched Angel's The Trial for the first time last night and I was NOT prepared for that ending!
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