Climate Crisis | Page 2 | The Popjustice Forum

Climate Crisis

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by ohnostalgia, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. Unfortunately most of the plastic stuff you put in the recycle bin doesn’t get recycled, because China stopped buying mixed plastics. A lot of markets have stopped accepting various plastics (my city doesn’t take black plastics).
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  2. I think corporations are going to kill us all unless we kill them first. Fetch the guillotine.
  3. I've become a lot more aware over the last few years--I've pretty much cut out single use plastics and papers utensils/dishes, I try to do all my work electronically, I don't eat much beef or dairy anymore (mostly chicken, which is far better for the environment), I conserve electricity where possible, recycle fairly aggressively, and invest in funds focused on sustainability, even at the cost of a couple bps of return.

    One person can't change everything, but if someone else picks it up, you've now doubled your impact!
  4. Black plastic can't be recycled, because the conveyor belts are also black and so the machines can't 'see' them. The issues around plastic is more complicated anyway, because, for example, by using plastic packaging you save far more food which prevents greenhouse emissions. Theres been a few Radio 4 shows on this.

    I've had a lifetime of Green activities, but the simple fact is I still choose to fly. Because I'm selfish. And that, fundamentally, is the problem times 7 billion.

    I think there's zero chance of averting catastrophic climate change, and in very short time frames. Like, the next 30-40 years, and looking at huge swaths of the world being uninhabitable for humans.

    We've shown over 40 years we're not going to stop producing greenhouse gases. We'd need HUGE structural changes which we're unlikely to make to keep warming below 2 degrees. Once you hit 2 degrees of warming, you get into runaway warming that is completely out of our control (see Six Degrees by Mark Lynas).

    In terms of warming, as far as I know, things are worse than expected (in terms of melting of ice, and of prema frost).

    All that said, I dont particularly worry about it, because that's how humans work. I'm always slightly surprised about people who say it really stresses them out, but I guess some people must have gone through the 60s worrying about nuclear annihilation.
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  5. On the bright side, don't worry about your vinyl collection - I recently read that streaming was actually worse for the environment than buying CDs, due to the energy it takes to run the servers.
  6. I didn’t know that about black plastic. But I do know that clear and other coloured mixed plastic is generally not being recycled because nobody will buy it. The Guardian did an entire piece on it.

    On the subject of plastic packaging- a lot of it is unnecessary. You don’t need to buy a pack of 6 apples in a hard plastic case (yes this is a real thing I’ve seen). Also, this argument leads me to the question- if the food that’s saved goes to waste anyways, what’s the point? it’s breaking down and emitting greenhouse emissions in the landfill then.
    andru likes this.
  7. Solenciennes

    Solenciennes Moderator

    I work for a major electricity company, and it’s honestly incredible the difference that being regulated makes on the behaviour of a big business. If we fuck up, we get penalised; if we can’t demonstrate that we’ve done the right thing, we get penalised; if we spend money inefficiently, we get penalised. So, it makes everyone quite thrifty and socially aware I think? Like even the middle class engineering back office nightmares are concerned about carbon footprint, renewables and electrical losses so that does generally make me feel quite good about being where I am (sometimes fff it’s still a pale, stale, male, heteronormative oppressive workplace) but when you see the nonsense that oil and gas companies get away with because they can, it’s a frustration.

    I’m in the habit of sorting my recycling now and have been for at least a decade, I’m a public transport commuter, walk as much as I can and try not to do anything wilfully harmful to the environment. I think you’ve just got to persevere even when the tide seems to be turning towards populism and extremism, keep doing our bit towards making the world a survivable place and hope that the next generations manage to push it along further than we can.
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  8. Life in East Asia right now means life where I somewhat regularly check air quality apps


    Days are only rarely super bad but that it’s even this level at all... At least I’m not in Beijing?
    ohnostalgia likes this.
  9. Actually, apples in plastic 6 packs were an example they gave. One supermarket ditched plastic packaging for apples, and put them in huge cardboard boxes. They ended up throwing away half the apples that reached the shops. It's one of those issues where the intuitive reaction isn't the 'best' environmental response

    The BBC had a good podcast, New Years Solutions, which is still on the BBC Sounds app (my jeans are currently sitting in the freezer because of it....)
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
    beautifulmorning likes this.
  10. Nothing makes me angrier than people sticking their fingers in their ears and digging out all sorts of random, non-scientific reports or facts stating that climate change is rubbish. Even more so when these people have children or grandchildren who will grow up in a world that's gonna be way more fucked than it is now.

    You can do as best you can as an individual, but huge structural changes and regulations need to be incorporated from government levels immediately to avoid disaster. I just don't think think enough is gonna be done in time. Stephen Hawking was probably right about humans needing to look to the stars for their continued survival, because Earth is very likely going to be made uninhabitable in the not-too-distant future.

    It makes me angry and depressed, but you just need to do as much as you can as an individual and try to influence those around you as much as possible. I'm recycling, I only use public transport, I try to fly as little as possible, I don't eat meat, I try to avoid plastics, microbeads and anything involving palm oil, and I reuse wherever I can. But I still probably make choices every day that make matters worse.
  11. My friends are all sick of every conversation with me eventually pivoting to doom mongering on this topic but it really is the most important issue and governments need to do something now before half the world floods and tens of millions of people are displaced.

    And if we're not gonna fix climate change, then we at least need to stamp out the growing fires of nationalism, because if the nationalists are in charge when millions of poor and homeless people of colour start flowing into "western" countries, well we all know what happens next.
  12. [​IMG]

    But... yes.

    I think we are past the point of prevention and we should be thinking how to tackle this when it starts getting really bad.

    The Middle East, South East Asia, India, most of Africa... those areas are probably gonna be inhabitable in a few decades and those people are gonna have to migrate somewhere. And looking at how Europe is dealing with the refugee crisis, I'm not hopeful.
  13. I was going to say if the waters rise at least some of the cunts in government will perish, but then I remembered rats can swim.

    It's not a nice outlook, but I do think we are nearing end times. Not for like another thousand years, but yeah it's only going to get worse year on year.
  14. Society has collapsed before. It always starts with the taking away of free speech, which is happening right now. Ideologist reasoning.
  15. I sort of subscribe to the 'we die in the next hundred years or we carry on forever' theory (though I do not think humans will go completely extinct, but would be returned to a sort of primitive existence at the margins)

    I think with politicians and the environment, we get what we deserve unfortunately. Look at what happened when the fuel tax escalator did what it was intended to ie started to make driving prohibitively expensive
  16. Who's taking away your freedom of speech?

    And anyway, freedom of speech isn't a concept most societies (pre - Enlightenment) would understand...
  17. I'm not as pessimistic as other people in here, but I do think we can't solve shit while we're still in an enterprise-based economic model where the primary concern is maximizing short-term profit above anything else. It's not a coincidence that basically every solution put forward even by the most eco-friendly government has been to essentially make polluting and emitting greenhouse gases more costly, which doesn't work because: 1) it only serves to screw up the poor and 2) corporations are much better at the avoiding costs while keeping on doing the same game than any form of government ever will.

    The hard T is, capitalism isn't just ill-equipped to solve a problem like a climate emergency, it's not equipped at all. Once we as a society realise it we can start with solutions that aren't the aural equivalent of a band aid.
  18. I became vegetarian a couple of years ago to try and reduce my carbon footprint. I tried to go zero waste, although I didn't find it cheap nor sustainable for my lifestyle. Thankfully it's getting easier to buy things loose in supermarkets, etc. Some of the tips I picked up during my zero waste phase have stuck with me, i.e. using a bamboo toothbrush, buying things in bulk and cutting down on the number of products I use (I use castille soap--bought in bulk--instead of shower gel, plus it's a great all-purpose cleaner for around the house).

    My energy provider also uses 100% renewable sources for electricy and about 80% (I think) for gas. Obviously, once energy hits the national grid, there's no controlling where it goes. So the energy I use might have come from non-renewable sources. Still, I like to think I'm contributing to overall demand for renewable energy sources. Plus, I've managed to get my mum, dad, sisters and a few friends to switch!

    It's hard not to despair sometimes. We need a drastic overhaul of the current system if we want to seriously tackle climate change. It needs to come from big companies, not individual action.

    Has anyone read This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. Climate by Naomi Klein?

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  19. @Kuhleezi in Canada the Carbon tax proceeds are given back to citizens in a tax refund. Supposedly 70% of households get back more money than they had to pay, it was only the richest people who didn’t benefit. But I do agree that the people who suffer the most from climate change are the poorest.

    And I’m sorry @toby3000 that packaging defence is misguided. Instead of throwing out unused apples (which I highly doubt went bad- they probably looked imperfect but are edible), companies could be giving them to charities, composting them, fermenting them into a new product (I have read about a grocery store that does fruit fermenting). Humans have been eating apples without plastic cases for millennia.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  20. For millennia most people had a very limited, restricted diet...

    I absolutely understand the dislike of excessive packaging and I do often think 'That's ridiculous' when I'm in a shop , but often with these sorts of things it's so complicated, and something which seems 'obvious' isn't really obvious.

    Even if you had a perfect system to use all the unsaleable food, you still need to replace it with other food and all the resources and energy that entails.

    In the case of plastics, I think it'd be more useful to focus on developing biodegradable alternatives than thinking we can eliminate them to any meaningful degree.
    andru likes this.
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