he/him
14 years and two daughters later, it’s not necessarily a bad faith response, even if one disagrees with her interpretation of the film.
Disney
- Thread starter Charley
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14 years and two daughters later, it’s not necessarily a bad faith response, even if one disagrees with her interpretation of the film.
He/Him
Yeah sorry but no Paloma Faith. She’s familiar with the movie, hence the 2009 tweet, so why does she ~now~ have an issue with it? Hmmmmmt? No thanks.
I feel like using Disney movies to make superficial feminist adjacent statements is...largely a battle with no real winner. They don't have the depth in those areas to really hold up to any rigid debate and you just end up with weird CinemaSins/Film Theory level discourse where we have to say Beauty and the Beast is about stockholm syndrome and they 'fix' Belle by making her teach a kid to read for...reasons. I mean you COULD have real conversations about say...Pocahontas (god we really need to) but that tends not to be mentioned because people are seeking easy ways to have an opinion vs genuine critical thinking and media literacy that may deal with difficult topics about things people are attached to.
Like we live in an age where I think its fair so say we aren't expecting Disney movies to be a moral guidebook. If parents have their concerns then have a conversation with kids about the themes and content of a work. Engage at their level and you'd be surprised at their takeaways.
Like we live in an age where I think its fair so say we aren't expecting Disney movies to be a moral guidebook. If parents have their concerns then have a conversation with kids about the themes and content of a work. Engage at their level and you'd be surprised at their takeaways.
Mvnl
Staff member
I don’t think ‘Disney’s gonna Disney’ is the answer either cause their original movies are both a reflection of the times they were made in and a part of raising a generation with certain ideas.
Yes any kind of ‘woman sacrifices herself for the love of a man’ kind of plot is questionable unless the narration is clearly in on ‘this is messy, someone get the girl some self love’ and I doubt Disney is.
That said I’ve read they did make some changes to this version, I have yet to see it, and Paloma might just be a white lady.
Yes any kind of ‘woman sacrifices herself for the love of a man’ kind of plot is questionable unless the narration is clearly in on ‘this is messy, someone get the girl some self love’ and I doubt Disney is.
That said I’ve read they did make some changes to this version, I have yet to see it, and Paloma might just be a white lady.
I've always found the 'Little Mermaid is really just telling girls to change everything about themselves for a man' discourse to be incredibly lazy and to me misses the actual point of the film (if you insist on having one beyond it being a cartoon love story for kids which includes a singing crab and sometimes things can just be quite simple) which is her standing up to her father and breaking out of the life that has been stipulated for her to become the person she truly is and life the live she wants to live. And a nice soppy lesson about dad overprotection coming from a place of love but being harmful and you 'have to let your children go' etc...
The whole 'Why didn't Eric ever consider becoming a merman?!' schtick is so boring. Might it be because Ariel doesn't want to keep living under the damn sea?! The whole thing is that she goes out and gets the life and future she wants that everyone told her was impossible and she wasn't allowed.
Sorry, I ramble and digress. I just find so much of the hyper intellectualism and the insistence on it being applied to every single thing such an odd use of energy. A film can just be a film, and it's 'message' doesn't always have to be deep.
The whole 'Why didn't Eric ever consider becoming a merman?!' schtick is so boring. Might it be because Ariel doesn't want to keep living under the damn sea?! The whole thing is that she goes out and gets the life and future she wants that everyone told her was impossible and she wasn't allowed.
Sorry, I ramble and digress. I just find so much of the hyper intellectualism and the insistence on it being applied to every single thing such an odd use of energy. A film can just be a film, and it's 'message' doesn't always have to be deep.
Yeah, I thought that. For this massive underwater civilisation we saw like two rooms.
Also the ~lore felt a little rushed. The Queen saying 'humans and mer-folk have always been enemies!!' felt a bit throwaway. Show us, don't tell us.
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he/him/his
Paloma coming to that conclusion when the live movie even made some points better.
Ariel wants to become human first of all. She fancies Eric but he is not the motivation. Triton destroying everything and telling her to never leave again actually makes her go to Ursula.
And in the movie they even make *attention spoilers* Ariel forget that she has to kiss Eric so the focus is on her being a human and them finding a natural connection.
The movie even makes a damn point that you shouldn‘t have to give up your voice to be heard.
Ariel wants to become human first of all. She fancies Eric but he is not the motivation. Triton destroying everything and telling her to never leave again actually makes her go to Ursula.
And in the movie they even make *attention spoilers* Ariel forget that she has to kiss Eric so the focus is on her being a human and them finding a natural connection.
The movie even makes a damn point that you shouldn‘t have to give up your voice to be heard.
Saying the little mermaid is about a girl who gives up her voice to be with a man is such a shallow 2009 Buzzfeed article era reading of the movie. I thought society had moved past that interpretation.
I hated that scene in the movie. Also the dodgy CGI (and direction) took me out of the film at times. Despite that I loved the cast and enjoyed the music. Im kicking myself for not seeing it in 3D.
Haven’t seen the film yet but Halles’ cover of ‘Part of Your World’ is next level. Her voice is just so gorgeous.
he/him
I’m sorry, Paloma’s comment is beyond stupid.
Even if you are looking at solely the original and not the remake, which updated a lot of things, Ariel wants to be a HUMAN. Her entire “I want” song has to do with wanting to escape her life for something more. And she actually goes out and does something about it.
It’s frankly the same (tired) argument for Cinderella. She was abused and forced to be a servant in her own home. She wanted to go to a ball. Her objective was not a Prince. Did marrying a Prince help her escape her misfortune? Absolutely. But Cinderella isn’t set in 2023 and Cinderella couldn’t just “leave” and start her own new life. That’s just — not how it worked back then. Sondheim said it beautifully in his lyrics for Into The Woods: “wanting a ball is not wanting a Prince.” She wasn’t seeking love and a man to save her, she was seeking a single evening of enjoyment.
It’s a very tired discourse tbh.
Even if you are looking at solely the original and not the remake, which updated a lot of things, Ariel wants to be a HUMAN. Her entire “I want” song has to do with wanting to escape her life for something more. And she actually goes out and does something about it.
It’s frankly the same (tired) argument for Cinderella. She was abused and forced to be a servant in her own home. She wanted to go to a ball. Her objective was not a Prince. Did marrying a Prince help her escape her misfortune? Absolutely. But Cinderella isn’t set in 2023 and Cinderella couldn’t just “leave” and start her own new life. That’s just — not how it worked back then. Sondheim said it beautifully in his lyrics for Into The Woods: “wanting a ball is not wanting a Prince.” She wasn’t seeking love and a man to save her, she was seeking a single evening of enjoyment.
It’s a very tired discourse tbh.
Paloma giving:
So I watched the film last night and I really enjoyed it! I was very worried going in and was sure I’d hate it but I didn’t!
Halle was incredible and slipped right into the role of Ariel and Melissa done a great job as Ursula. The only weak part of the cast for me were Awkwafina and Javier, i just feel they didn’t fit their characters. I wish Daveed had a lower tone for Sebastian’s but he was t bad.
They only nitpicks I have are the Giant Ursula scene wasn’t the best. You could barley see her.
Why did they not let Flotsam and Jetsam talk
And I missed the “You’ll have your looks, your pretty face and don’t underestimate the importance of body language” part of ‘Poor Unfortunate Souls’.
Halle was incredible and slipped right into the role of Ariel and Melissa done a great job as Ursula. The only weak part of the cast for me were Awkwafina and Javier, i just feel they didn’t fit their characters. I wish Daveed had a lower tone for Sebastian’s but he was t bad.
They only nitpicks I have are the Giant Ursula scene wasn’t the best. You could barley see her.
Why did they not let Flotsam and Jetsam talk
And I missed the “You’ll have your looks, your pretty face and don’t underestimate the importance of body language” part of ‘Poor Unfortunate Souls’.
I thought the CGI was good, although I could have used more bubbles throughout.
I enjoyed Awkwafina as Scuttle, but that Scuttlebut song coming at my favourite moment from the original movie was so awful.
Ariel and Vanessa? Perfect casting. Melissa was decent but I wish she'd upped the camp a little.
The boat crash/fire scene was stunning, probably the highlight for me.
The engagement party scene (changing it from the wedding was a pointless plot change) and the final scene both not taking place on big boats screamed budget cuts.
All in all, for a live action of my favourite animated movie, it was decent.
I enjoyed Awkwafina as Scuttle, but that Scuttlebut song coming at my favourite moment from the original movie was so awful.
Ariel and Vanessa? Perfect casting. Melissa was decent but I wish she'd upped the camp a little.
The boat crash/fire scene was stunning, probably the highlight for me.
The engagement party scene (changing it from the wedding was a pointless plot change) and the final scene both not taking place on big boats screamed budget cuts.
All in all, for a live action of my favourite animated movie, it was decent.
Just watched it and I loved it! Obviously Halle's voice is great etc but can we talk about her acting?? She was fantastic. I was scared when I saw the runtime but thought the movie had great pacing. The ending was so emotional!! I love the original with the wedding and the rainbow but I thought the new one was great too. When Triton pushes their boat I shed a tear ddd.
The only thing I didn't like too much were Ursula's scenes. Melissa herself was great but the shitty make-up + the way her scenes were filmed left me a bit cold.
Even the realistic animals didn't bother me. Honestly I think people do too much over this type of thing! I get it with The Lion King but in here it works.
The only thing I didn't like too much were Ursula's scenes. Melissa herself was great but the shitty make-up + the way her scenes were filmed left me a bit cold.
Even the realistic animals didn't bother me. Honestly I think people do too much over this type of thing! I get it with The Lion King but in here it works.
Vanessa is definitely for the gays