Doja Cat - Hot Pink | Page 69 | The Popjustice Forum

Doja Cat - Hot Pink

Discussion in 'Pop & Justice' started by allyshone, Oct 7, 2014.

  1. I think rather than absolving her, we are all just treading lightly so not to seem to be going in the other direction and "cancelling" her. It's important to have the above conversation, but I also think that we as a forum have collectively forgiven plenty of white women for so much that it doesn't feel right for us to dogpile on Doja especially as we saw with Nicki, it's plain weird when a bunch of white gays rush to tear down a black woman and immediately negate all of her accomplishments because of some choice behaviour.
  2. Just for the sake of clarification and clearer understanding for whoever is not familiar with those corners of the internet, 4chan is similar to Reddit in that it has "subforums", it's not solely a right-wing / racist / edgy site. I know this because I, too, was a curious kid on the internet (with non-english-speaking parents) and I nowadays monitor one of their boards because my work gets illegally shared there very often and I have to send DMCA notices. Of course, a lot of that disgusting mentality permeates the website due to its anonymous, quasi-lawless nature, but it has sessions for discussing everything from cooking to origami.

    I'm just saying this because not everyone who stumbles upon 4chan was necessarily looking for edgy content, in its origin it was primarily known as a hub for nerdy / otaku interests.
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  3. The Lana situation is very different. And while the victimization and coddling of Doja’s behaviour indeed warrants a discussion, that wasn’t why I was voicing my discomfort. You made the joke at your own expense, but it’s the type of joke where people compare their situation to “their own Vietnam”. In this context I think it’s giving me the similar effect. But I really don’t want to derail the conversation being had here so if you disagree we can take it into our inboxes.
    bess marvin, Vasilios and Glitterizer like this.
  4. How far into the thread did you read? The person who started the thread had initially posted on private and there was a whole back and forth about the poster's identity. So a mod ended up revealing the names of the accounts who were posting on private so people would stop derailing the thread. Turned out the OP wasn't lying about her identity (she was a longtime member and people in the community knew her), and the poster who posted the alleged nude was revealed to be a Doja Cat stan who was trying to get the thread deleted or sent to the locked NFSW section of the site so less people would see it.

    I'm not denying that she's been trolled by these men desperate to see tits but I think we can safely say that they didn't start this. She was careless and probably didn't care about getting caught and she got caught.
    lushLuck, Rem and spaceship like this.
  5. Oh, I understand. In no way do I want to encourage piling onto her with hateful rhetoric that may suggest misogynoir. Thankfully, I really haven't seen that in this thread. I just think this thread is a few more posts away from finding middle ground, but it felt like "she's garbage and I don't know how y'all didn't see it sooner" on one end and "I've been on alt-right forums too so we all make mistakes uwu" on the other end.

    There's always a better way to do things, and you are definitely right about how this forum should watch how they talk about black women considering a lot of people here are white (or non-black) men.

    I'm just floored by the amount of people (both on here and on social media) admitting to have been on that side of the internet and have been actively engaged (albeit, most of the people who have admitted to it were young themselves). I'm just sensing a racial difference here.

    Growing up in a black household, I got talks about everything, not just what to do when I encounter the police. In retrospect, it's fucked up how my identity will influence everything I do and everything everyone else does, including how we all use the internet, but it's the way my father prepared me so I wouldn't be surprised by the uglier aspects of life.
  6. I hope this isn't referring to me, because that's not in any way shape or form what I said and I'm frankly dumbfounded if that's what you took away from my post.

    Why are you trying to make this into "well, SOME people have been on THAT side of the internet" trying to frame it as me "visiting alt right forums", when exactly what I was trying to say is that some parts of that site are just people shitposting about which Zelda protagonist design is hottest and getting into fights about the proper way to make kimchi?
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  7. I was on a WayBack link, so I have no idea how many pages the thread got in real time, but I read about 30 of them. I just know that it’s not unusual for alt-right members to pretend to be black people on the internet and infiltrate their circles, so with that in mind and the timing of it all I’m just extremely skeptical. Especially since they had just been spreading doctored videos of Doja saying “fag” making them seem recent. Obviously the source doesn’t matter at the end of the day when she got exposed, but that’s why I’m coming from that point of view rather than the alternative.
    lushLuck likes this.
  8. Dude, none of this is inherently about you. The way you are always trying to shoehorn yourself into issues that aren't about you in the slightest across this entire forum gets mad annoying. There are several people in this thread who have mentioned being the slightest bit engaged with these sites. Not solely you. If I wanted to name-drop you, trust that I would have. I know your @. Don't try me.
  9. RMK


    I could be misunderstanding your post, and tell me if so because I don't mean this to cause animosity. I totally agree with you that there's a line to walk on and this should be understood with accountability, but I also feel like sometimes people aren't raised well and it isn't something to hold over there head. Or sometimes people do have these talks or "warnings" but ignore them. Surely, yes, we all are better off without these sites, but it feels a bit like.. Holding your, or others, good upbringing over her head?
  10. To clear the air, I'm not holding myself on higher moral and ethical ground than others. I'm simply taken aback by the amount of people admitting to have encountered these sites and even found some sort of solace in them. Jesus Christ 2005.

    Conversely, if I found these sites in my childhood or prepubescent years, I would have probably been scarred by rhetoric referring to me as a "d*ndu n*ffin" or a "mammy" or some variation of the n-word. That's the kind of impressionability it would have had on me.
  11. So your best way to argue that your subpost wasn't a personal attack is... to make a personal attack? Got it.

    Nah, that's pretty much your modus operandi across this entire forum and it gets mad annoying as well.
  12. Yeah people trying to absolve her of any accountability doesn't sit right with me either. I think the rest of this person's thread is important to read too.

    thommyh, Sam, Uno and 13 others like this.
  13. No, you made it about you, so I made a post addressing you. Don't look for ad hominem where it doesn't apply.
    And that's your business.
  14. There *is* a kind of nuance as to what happens when digital exploration has largely been unsupervised for an entire generation and just how niche online communities work, yes, to where someone naive can find themselves in a subreddit for loneliness or even for a form of media like anime and become friends with people, all without realizing they're slowly making their way into a larger digital ecosystem whose darker corners are made-up of things ranging from sexually deranged and predatory, bigoted and violent, or straight-up illegal activity.

    I think something like ContraPoint's video on what incels are is probably a good point for anyone just.. not at all in-the-know about any of this and who sees terms like incel and femcel and 4chan and think this is all just too 'online' for them to grasp, but I'm not going to link to the actual video because I don't think exploring the incel pipeline from loner to bigot is relevant at all here.

    Doja says it in the Paper Mag interview - she knows the digital communities she finds comfort in are hostile, aggressive, and yes, bigoted with purposefully offensive content meant to see who could upset others the most. I think for those interested in the kind of.. epistemology~ (?) of online communities, that could be fascinating, but from what I'm seeing, there are people who are rightfully just uncomfortable with the 'what' of it all and for who the 'why'/'how' isn't going to bring any kind of bigger context or understanding and that's their right.

    And I say this as someone who like everyone else here started being *very online* at like.. 12 and am now 28. Many of my own experiences with obscure online communities come from things like being an atheist and quickly learning that many digital atheist 'spaces' have a very.. blatant overlap with race and cultural essentialists. As someone who has had arguments for years now regarding how harmful many of these online communities are, I totally understand the nuances as to how believers in certain ideologies work to gain converts out of more naive and vulnerable people. That still doesn't change the material impact of the behavior nor people's right to be uncomfortable with it regardless of how it comes about.
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  15. Thank you for providing a really great point that offers more insight and nuance into this conversation. You mentioned something that's really been going over my head, and I have a better understanding of the subject because of it. When I thought of these sites, I immediately thought of the bigotry, but, like you said, the more bigoted/racist/homophobic nature of these sites is hidden beneath the surface level. All it takes is someone lonely and willing enough to dive in deeper for them to really be immersed in this kind of world. You gave me a better sense of clarity in how to go about talking about this.
  16. I remember stumbling onto a 4chan-like site when I was like 11 by chance just because I was active on this flash gaming website. I don’t even know how I got there, but I remember poking around and finding really disturbing images of dead bodies. I never visited again. But yeah, I imagine a lot of these places are masking as something completely different, so I can definitely see how a lot of people might come into contact with them and just get sucked in.
  17. No problem. My post was really in support of what you were saying because I do reject the notion one user or two suggested that many of us are somehow ignoring the nuances as to how these digital communities grow. Many of us don't need to be told that 4chan is for things other than trolling like it's brand new information.

    Many of us *do* understand the nuances but 1) Doja herself has made it clear that at one point she became fully aware that the "humor" in her friend circle was meant to be offensive and 2) even as someone interested in how hateful/reactionary online communities grow out of a desire to learn how to stop them, I don't think it's fair to ask those particularly harmed by the behavior to ignore it or be interested in the diagnosis of why it happens.

    If Doja was just some popular-ish e-girl on the internet with some problematic twitter mutuals, this would probably not be anything worth beyond a 1-2 day discussion, but her being now a #1 recording artist kind of makes even the most charitable understanding of what's going on questionable because she has such a large platform. You can't really go #1 and want to bring your edgelord online best friends with you.
  18. The whole situation is deeply unfunny, but the wording of this tweet got a chuckle out of me:
  19. I suppose I'm partially curious what exactly she got out of going to these places. I mean, I get why say, a maladjusted white guy would gravitate towards these spaces since they have a permanent victim complex about their perceived inability to be as awful as they'd like everywhere else without pushback. Heck, I even get how say, a black or brown man might be self-hating enough to tolerate their racism for a chance to participate in the misogyny. But I can't imagine this sort of space was anything but outwardly hostile to her once they got over the novelty of her presence, so was she really just that lonely that even the company of nazis-in-training was preferable to the alternative?

    I say partially because I have trouble mustering much more than that level of concern for someone who apparently was so desperate for friends they may have made a "joke" song about a black woman who was murdered by the police to impress a curdle of white men.
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