Eurovision Song Contest 2023 - Liverpool

johnoclock

johnoclock

No, this could be a teaching moment for me. I'm honestly asking. In what way was my post sexist? I'm extremely open to being taught and apologizing. I'm not here to argue or insult anyone. Honestly.

If my post came across as sexist, I apologize, my intention was solely to critique the quality and intent of the songs with no correlation to the gender of the singer. This could possibly be a blind spot for me though and I fully take responsibility and again, I apologize if I hurt or insulted anyone. I'm sincerely sorry.
 
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crash9081

crash9081

I love Gustaph’s entry (it’s probably my most listened to Eurovision 2023 track over the past week) and given that I’m going to the final rehearsal on Saturday afternoon, I’ll be gutted if it doesn’t qualify. Though judging by the reactions on this thread, it feels like it’s almost certainly going to get through?!
 
PopfanSF

PopfanSF

JakobVision22 said:
Pointless but curious question:

Europeans, what do you usually do after the grand final ends? Do you go to sleep, continue to party, re-watch right away? It begins at noon and ends around 4 here in California, which is such a lame time slot. Too sober and awake to sleep, too drunk and tired to be productive and make other concrete plans.
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So true. San Francisco here, so I feel your pain. I always block off the whole day (and Sunday) and just keep partying all night rewatching old Eurovision videos. It's a very unhealthy strategy.
 
StratusJM

StratusJM

he/him
johnoclock said:
No, this could be a teaching moment for me. I'm honestly asking. In what way was my post sexist? I'm extremely open to being taught and apologizing. I'm not here to argue or insult anyone. Honestly.

If my post came across as sexist, I apologize, my intention was solely to critique the quality and intent of the songs with no correlation to the gender of the singer. This could possibly be a blind spot for me though and I fully take responsibility and again, I apologize if I hurt or insulted anyone. I'm sincerely sorry.
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So, just my personal take, but:

1. "Maudlin histrionics" feels gender-coded as a criticism to me. Not something I'd expect to see directed at a man in general.
2. The post in question feels like an example of the popular narrative of the authentic, creative man having to struggle versus the safe, basic, sellout woman (see the public's insistence that Ed Sheeran is somehow an underdog while every female popstar's success apparently comes easily).
3. Artists being villified for working hard to achieve success after their time is judged to be past is almost exclusively a female experience and much of your post relies on the idea that Loreen, having succeeded and then struggled, should give up and accept her irrelevance.

I am sure that you weren't trying to communicate any of that, but it's how it came across to me. At the end of the day, both of them will rightfully smash it in the final, and I don't think we need to build up Käärijä by dismissing Loreen. I understand that Loreen's 2012 win and her more mainstream entry make her seem like a Goliath, but she's also a very talented woman who never really got her flowers in light of that win and who has been in the wilderness despite making excellent music for a long time. She's struggled to get here too and just being at Eurovision again is already an admirable comeback for her. If she wins and becomes Sweden's first two-time winner, that will be a spectacular story in its own right.
 
johnoclock

johnoclock

StratusJM said:
So, just my personal take, but:

1. "Maudlin histrionics" feels gender-coded as a criticism to me. Not something I'd expect to see directed at a man in general.
2. The post in question feels like an example of the popular narrative of the authentic, creative man having to struggle versus the safe, basic, sellout woman (see the public's insistence that Ed Sheeran is somehow an underdog while every female popstar's success apparently comes easily).
3. Artists being villified for working hard to achieve success after their time is judged to be past is almost exclusively a female experience and much of your post relies on the idea that Loreen, having succeeded and then struggled, should give up and accept her irrelevance.

I am sure that you weren't trying to communicate any of that, but it's how it came across to me. At the end of the day, both of them will rightfully smash it in the final, and I don't think we need to build up Käärijä by dismissing Loreen. I understand that Loreen's 2012 win and her more mainstream entry make her seem like a Goliath, but she's also a very talented woman who never really got her flowers in light of that win and who has been in the wilderness despite making excellent music for a long time. She's struggled to get here too and just being at Eurovision again is already an admirable comeback for her. If she wins and becomes Sweden's first two-time winner, that will be a spectacular story in its own right.
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I understand and thank you for your input. I certainly didn't mean all that, I just dislike that type of overwrought Eurovision ballad sung by anyone and I think that maybe it's a little unfair to go against an established winner as an unknown.

In any case and in the grand scheme, I understand that trying to be funny and hyperbolic can be taken in ways that not only did I never intend, they never even crossed my mind. I will try to be more mindful in the future. Thanks again for taking the time to explain.
 
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swim

swim

he / him
20230511-055151.jpg


G-O-D-D-E-S-S
 
G

garax

johnoclock said:
No, this could be a teaching moment for me. I'm honestly asking. In what way was my post sexist? I'm extremely open to being taught and apologizing. I'm not here to argue or insult anyone. Honestly.

If my post came across as sexist, I apologize, my intention was solely to critique the quality and intent of the songs with no correlation to the gender of the singer. This could possibly be a blind spot for me though and I fully take responsibility and again, I apologize if I hurt or insulted anyone. I'm sincerely sorry.
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If there is one thing i’ve learnt on here, once someone comes for you its pretty irrelevant what you meant because your just a target then, better to just back off and try and play nicely. There is definitely a bullying mentality in some places here and one word can trigger it. And then they just come. You should be able to express the opinion that the show, for many people is irrelevant the next day. It doesn’t mean they didn’t enjoy it at the time - i don’t see the crime in it not being the most important thing ever to happen. But good luck saying it.
 
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