Discussion in 'TV + Film' started by Charley, Apr 18, 2009.
That's probably their worst storyline ever, next to the one where Joey can't speak French.
I know it's been said a million times, but Joey going from Season 1 "Not the brightest spark, but plenty of common sense and street smarts" to Season 10 "How has this person genuinely made it this far in life without dying by literally just existing because they're that thick" is one of the weirdest character developments in TV history.
I forgot about that one, that’s the worst.
There is precisely one time when I found a ‘Joey is dumb’ joke humourous:
(And it’s mainly funny for Rachel’s reaction)
Yea, there's not much I don't like about Friends but this is one of the things that I never liked. I also never liked how progressively meaner and meaner Phoebe became to Chandler to the point that you wondered why he would ever tolerate having her around?
It's a thing I've noticed about TV series that run for a long time - the characters seem to to become parodies of themselves. Watch the first few episodes of House, Bones, Castle, even Friends and compare them towards the end; it's like 2 different shows.
Yea, thats true. Jack on Will and Grace is another great example. From the first few seasons to now its night and day. He over-exaggerates everything now.
It's noticable for all the main four in Will & Grace as the original run went on. They went from being smart, well written characters to complete parodies of themselves. Each of them getting meaner and more stupid from season 5 onwards. I think the most evident was Grace - she goes from being a smart, single female who runs her own business to being a clown who sings loudly out of key for jokes.
I've not watched the reboot but I heard it reeled it in a bit (apart from Jack).
Yeah, I love Friends, it’s my absolute favorite tv show ever, but in the later seasons, like a lot of other long running shows, It also sacrificed the characters’ “realness” for the jokes and laughs and made them an over the top versions of themselves. Joey turned into an idiot, Rachel also got dumber, Phoebe became a total bitch, Ross was a high shrieking loser, Chandler with the endless gay jokes and Monica was high maintenanced than ever.
I feel like Monica and Chandler probably remained the most grounded of all the characters. They definitely leaned into Monica's OCD more as the series went on, but they never took those characters to far into the land of becoming parodies of themselves.
Ross and Joey probably got the most exaggerated, which benefitted David more since Ross was always funniest when he was trying to find some dignity in a mortifying situation. Joey being dumb was never that funny to me, which is why it baffles me that he got the most Emmy nominations of the men. Not a slam against Matt - I love all m'Friends - just he had the least interesting writing.
Rachel and Chandler probably had the biggest character arcs. Chandler from a commitment phobic man child to emotionally mature married father. Rachel from spoiled rich girl to single mom who has Ralph Lauren and Louis Vuitton fighting over hiring her in a position she has zero qualifications for.
I never noticed Pheobe getting bitchier over time to be honest. I'll have to look out for that. Joey turned into absolute parody by season 8, and he unfortunately didn't get a proper "finale" because they were sending him to the spin-off. Ross and Rachel reunited, Pheobe got married, Chandler and Monica had kids and sold the apartment... and Joey just sort of ends the series in the exact same spot as he started, with no professional or romantic advancements.
You really should check out the reboot, I know I stan W&G as much as I stan Friends so I may be biased a bit (however I will critique Debra/Grace cause it took her some TIME to find Grace in the reboot) but Grace is still single and running her business (with Will? lol where'd that go hahaha) and is now a feminist (per Debra's request)... while yes if you view comedies as "No ChAraCteR GRoWth!!!11!1!" without looking at subtle changes you may not like it...
It used to bother me that Joey got no closure like the others (due to his spin off) but really what is closure? Not everyone marries and has kids. In hindsight his ending was more true to who Joey was (if you ignore the spin off which I do)
Jack was witty / sassy in the first few series, but yeah, he became more stupid from season 5 onward, maybe even series 4.
I always felt as though they watered Karen down, she was a cold bitch in the first few series and this is what made her hilarious, then she became nicer and more high-pitched in the later series of the original run, they've definitely brought her cold bitchy personality in the new series (with a little bit of niceness), in fact, I'm surprised the show has got away with some of the things her character has said in 2017/18.
Grace however, I do love how selfish she became in the original run, they've toned this down in the new series, it's still there, but just not as in your face.
Will is Will.
That's true, but even without closure he didn't really get any major storylines near the end of the series either. He was just kind of an after-thought while everyone else was doing big things. Some kind of small victory would have been nice.
'Oh my God, I wanna trade lives with Ross?!'
That was a classic, that was a classic.
It would’ve been nice for them to set up the (terrible) Joey spin-off with a big break into acting and also moving. I think that would’ve been better to have them all move out of the two most iconic apartments throughout the series run, as opposed to Joey still sort of living there for a bit.
I always saw Joey's big movie role alongside Gary Oldman as the closure to his storyline.
...and I've just checked and that was season 7/8 so nevermind
As much as I would have loved to have seen Joey and Phoebe get together, I'm glad it didn't happen. Was already enough with 2 couples in the group. Plus then we'd never have had Mike who honestly fit in so perfectly and was a great character especially for Phoebe. They struck gold with Paul Rudd.
Separate names with a comma.