Heaven Is a Rate on Earth. The Belinda Carlisle Rate. Ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth? | Page 22 | The Popjustice Forum

Heaven Is a Rate on Earth. The Belinda Carlisle Rate. Ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth?

Discussion in 'Charts, rates etc' started by VivaForever, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. Thanks for noticing my graphics. That said, I'll admit to going a bit overboard with everything in the Mandy rate. It's my first rate here &, as all involved have gathered, she's a bit special to me. There's probably only a handful of pop stars I'd go that hard for hosting a rate... and I very well may burn myself out (we'll see). I'm probably not a model to follow.... haha! Rates are about are as much about results as anything... I just really get into theming, etc.

    Luckily, as far as the graphics, I do that for 'a living' so it's fun & I sort of created a templated approach that expedites their creation a bit.
    VivaForever likes this.
  2. I had no idea.
    pop3blow2 likes this.
  3. I didn't know any of this, but it all sounds about 'on brand Brian Wilson'.
  4. And to think, I initially gave California a 2.
  5. Didn't they tell you Belinda was a savage?
  6. Everything I've heard about Belinda's memoir makes it sound like a total car crash. I may have to read it.

    unnameable likes this.
  7. Her book was ok, but it was 90% about her drug issues, 10% career. I wanted to find out how she felt about her material but she barely touches on it. I love anecdotes artists have about their music.
    MixmasterRemix likes this.
  8. It's not really a car crash, just a mild disappointment. My review:
  9. The real loss for me in the last batch is California. It's not a 10/10, but I really like it and it totally deserved to be a single. Key of C, however...

    A Woman and a Man is fine, but there are at least three better album tracks on the album. I'm quite averse to the chorus. The verses are good though.

    Deep Deepn Ocean...meh. I mean, it's by no means bad, but it's definitely in my bottom two from Horses, along with Whatever It Takes.

    Too Much Water is similarly in my bottom two from Real, beloved though that album is. That and Here Comes My Baby aren't up to the high standard of the rest of the record.

    What's left now?
  11. Hmmm....looking at that I'm becoming a bit fearful for my 11.
  12. Time for Goodbye day to leave, I thought it had gone ages ago.
  13. Goodbye Day is brilliant. I'd rather all the Heaven singles (except maybe Circle) went before it.

    They won't, of course.
  14. Yeah, I thought tackling Belinda's memoir, but after reading @VivaForever 's capsule review awhile back decided to put it on the back burner for now. I'm sure I'll get to it.

    Also, let me add that I can not believe 'I Won't Say (I'm In Love)' is still in, but I will ride that wave as long as the rate takes it.
    phoenix123 likes this.
  15. Yikes.

    29. I Won't Say (I'm in Love) - 7.77
    Extras (Hercules, 1997)

    Highest score: 10 x 2 (me, @pop3blow2)
    Lowest score: 4 (@Cundy)​

    Well, here we are. This should have made top 15, but at least it made top 30, and that is better than I was expecting given its underperformance in the singles rate.

    Buckle up, children. It's story time.

    In 1986, Sullivan-Bluth and Steven Spielberg's Amblin released An American Tail, a movie about a Ukrainian mouse who gets separated from his family as they immigrate to the US. Yes, it was groundbreaking, brilliant, incredible, amazing, showstopping, spectacular - or so I've been told; I've never seen it - but it's relevant to the matter at hand for one reason and one reason only. Per Wikipedia: "After the first round of songs were written, it was decided a special song would be written for Linda Ronstadt to sing over the end credits with James Ingram. Called 'Somewhere Out There', it was composed by [James] Horner and Barry Mann with lyrics by Cynthia Weil, won a Grammy Award, and became one of the most popular songs from an animated feature since the 1950s."

    Five years later, the success of Somewhere Out There was on the minds of the good sistren at Walt Disney Studios. They had just finished my favorite Disney film, Beauty and the Beast, and if I understand my BATB history correctly, had an inkling that it would have multiple songs nominated for an Oscar. How, then, to avoid splitting the vote? It was decided to mimic An American Tail by having an adult contemporary singer record a reprise of one of the movie's songs to be played over the end credits. That song, of course, was the movie's title song; originally intended for Slayline Dion, the studio subsequently turned it into a duet with Peabo Bryson for fear that Queen Céline wasn't popular enough to get that airplay. (Which she probably wasn't at the time, with only one English-language album under her belt.)

    The result was a resounding success. The song hit #9 on the Hot 100 and #3 on the Adult Contemporary chart, also racking up a #9 in the UK, #1 on Canada's AC chart, and #2 on the Canadian sales chart, and was certified gold. It was nominated for eight Grammys, including Song and Record of the Year, and won two: Best Pop Performance by a Duo or Group with Vocals, and Best Song Written for Visual Media. (Gotta love those super-specific Grammy categories.) Moreover, it won the Golden Globe for Best Original Song... and that elusive Oscar.

    Naturally, this had a great effect on those involved. Alan Menken cemented his position as Disney's main composer throughout the 90s. Peabo returned for another duet on the end credits of Aladdin, this time with Regina Belle. Reine Céline catapulted to worldwide stardom and became arguably the 90s' queen of movie power ballads, featuring in Sleepless in Seattle, Up Close and Personal, and of course, Titanic. And the Disney studios? Well, they realized they'd just hit on a formula for $UCCE$$ (copyright Dannii Minogue). Ever since, every major Disney animated movie has featured a song by a popstar - and I use both "pop" and "star" loosely - on its end credits. Some were great songs by legitimate popstars (Vanessa Williams' Colors of the Wind); some were great songs by up-and-coming popstars (Xtina's Reflection); others... weren't (Mýa's Where the Dream Takes You).

    And that takes us to Hercules in 1997, featuring songs composed by Alan Menken with lyrics by David Zippel. In the US, the pop reprise was Herc's self-actualization anthem Go the Distance, recorded by Michael Bolton. But in the rest of the world, it had to share the spotlight with who else but Ms. Belinda Carlisle.

    In the film, I Won't Say (I'm in Love) is a dialogue between Herc's love interest, Megara, and the Muses, who act as a Greek chorus throughout the film. Yet for some reason, it didn't remain a duet for the pop version, resulting in Belinda singing both Meg's and the Muses' lines, making it sound like she's arguing with herself. Belegenda giving us that dissociative identity disorder representation? Even stranger, Meg's first verse was cut, and with it my favorite lyrics in the whole damn song: "If there's a prize for rotten judgement, I guess I've already won that / No man is worth the aggravation." This would seem to indicate that they were trying to rejig the song a bit to avoid the split personality problem, but, uh, didn't do a good job.

    Belinda's version was included on the soundtrack everywhere except the US (and I believe Canada) but was only released as a commercial single in France and Germany. It was, however, also included on the CD singles for two translated versions: Paola & Chiara's "Ti Vada o No" in Italy and Anita Hegerland's "Han er meg kjaer" in Norway. Here in the US? We got nothing. No soundtrack, no single, no release at all. Just Michael goddamn Bolton. Fuckers.

    Over the years, various Belinda comps (and, if memory serves, the Real reissue) didn't include the song as Disney either wouldn't license it or would have charged so much as to make the licensing impossible. But finally, Edsel succeeded in licensing it to include on the AWAAM reissue. Which, being Edsel, they promptly fucked up by accidentally including the movie version by Susan Egan and the rest of the cast, rather than Belinda's version. They did, of course, issue a corrected disc, and included it - correctly this time - on The Anthology as well.

    In almost all of the above cases, the version included was the one produced by Gary Wallis and Toby Chapman (IDKH). Another version - which I've only just managed to find for the first time, and frankly isn't very good - was produced by Pascal Gabriel (Kylie!), and it did feature a nameless group of studio singing the Muses' part, but that means that less than half the song is actually Belinda. It didn't even restore the missing verse! To date, Pascal's version has only appeared on the German version of the soundtrack, a weird promo copy of the soundtrack sponsored by Nestlé, a reissue of the soundtrack, and the French and German singles.

    Whew. Now let's have some thoughts. Even though the missing verse irks me, I love Belinda's voice on this and love the production and instrumentation (on the Wallis and Chapman version ddd) enough that it absolutely merited a 10 from me.

    Let's hear now from the forum's resident Disney stan and Belinda fan. Oh wait, @MollieSwift21 didn't vote. Anyway, our resident Disney and Belinda stan, @pop3blow2, 10'd this as well, saying, "A 10 everyday & twice on Sunday! One of my all-time favorite Disney songs. I knew she did a version of this & even a saw a random promo video for it in the 90’s. It was hard to track to down for awhile (I think it was on some international versions of the soundtrack), but I had a horrible internet ripped, low bitrate version from Kazaa for a long time & still loved it!" I had a YouTube rip up until quite recently ddddd... finally managed to nab a higher quality MP3 originating from the soundtrack.

    "Are we sure that Belinda recorded this in 1987? The production style makes this feel like a lost track from the Heaven on Earth sessions, and I’m really digging it. I’m surprised I haven’t heard this before now, considering how many times I watched Hercules when I was younger." I'm not sure here if @Seventeen Days (8) misread the 1997 date, or if he meant to say "are we sure Belinda didn't record this in 1987," but either way I'm inclined to agree re: the Heaven on Earth realness.

    @Hudweiser (8) picks up on another influence, asking, "Anyone else hear a touch of Every Breath You Take?" Honestly? No.

    "This was one of the few Disney movies I saw at the time," says @unnameable (8.5), refraining from commenting on the song itself, I guess. I actually never saw it until I checked the DVD out during a Disney phase in college (so, seven-ish years ago?). Don't know why, considering I had at least one of the tie-in books. Then again, I've never seen The Hunchback of Notre Dame or Pocahontas either.

    "Great song, love her much more pop version than the musical version, pity about the fuck-up on the CD reissue," says @CasperFan (7.5). "Pity about the fuck-up" could really be the Belinda fandom's slogan, no?

    Wallis/Chapman version, complete with mildly tragic drive-in themed video (Belinda ha M2M!):

    Dame Pascal Gabriel version:

    (If anyone needs me for the rest of the afternoon, I'll be listening to M2M's Don't Say You Love Me. WHAT a song.)
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
  16. California is so damn dull.
  17. Incidentally, there is ONE other elimination that MAY be as lengthy as that one, and I even doubt that.
    Phonetics Girl likes this.
  18. Happy to oblige!

    28. Goodbye Day - 7.82

    Highest score: 10 (@Cundy)
    Lowest score: 4 (me)​

    @Cundy going from lowest to highest scorer, as I go from highest to lowest. The @unnameable effect!

    Anyway, remember when I said this was the only good song on Real aside from Big Scary Animal? Yeah, I don't know what kind of crack I was doing when clearly that title goes to Wrap My Arms.

    Goodbye Day at least isn't boring, like much of the album. It is, however, a mess, as Belinda seems to me to be yelling more than following an actual tune. Alleged tune and lyrics were, by the way, written by Charlotte, Tom, Jeff "Mr. Charlotte Caffey" McDonald, and Steve "Jeff's Brother/Mr. Anna Waronker" McDonald.

    @Hudweiser (9.5) notes it's "proof that she sang about ‘perfect imperfections’ long before John Legend." Surely that's nearly as much of a cliché as "beautifully broken"?

    "More a live/organic sound than the pop of her earlier records. This opening song doesn't have the same addictive pull of Heaven is a Place on Earth, Leave a Light On or Live Your Life Be Free but we still have those wonderful vocals and some interesting melodies throughout." I will take the first clause of @bonnieetclyde's (7) second sentence and run.

    Shot time! "A bit edgier than some of her other recent stuff. A bit more ‘Go-Go’s’, even. I like it," says @pop3blow2 (8.7). Another! "Was this album intentionally a return to a more rock-ish style? This is sounding like something she would have done with the Go-Go's, and I am liking it," says @Seventeen Days (8).

    "Belinda adjusting her boppy style to the early 90s sound," observes @unnameable (9). Nah, sis, that would be Big Scary Animal. This isn't a bop.

    "Great album opener, certainly a different Belinda on this album but this is inkeeping with her pop-rock sound, Vocals more gravelly which is a good thing- could’ve been a single if Virgin didn’t pull support for the album so early." I'm not arguing with @CasperFan (8) because it's 4:15 p.m. and I'm tired.

  19. I did indeed mean to ask if we were sure Belinda DIDN'T record it in 1987. It really does sound like an outtake from that album.

    We're getting down to the bop wire here with the remaining tracks, it looks like. Most everything left is good, so I fear it's gonna start hurting.
  20. Ooh this is the discovery of the rate for me so far. I’ve seen the movie a bunch of times but missed this. So good!
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