Heaven Is a Rate on Earth. The Belinda Carlisle Rate. Ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth? | Page 23 | The Popjustice Forum

Heaven Is a Rate on Earth. The Belinda Carlisle Rate. Ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth?

Discussion in 'Charts, rates etc' started by VivaForever, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. Goodbye Day is my first major loss. Real is the first Belinda album I bought at the time of release, so that may partially account for my love for it. But fuck me if Goodbye Day isn't a great opener (in fact, it's probably my favourite of her album openers. Only Leave A Light On gives it a run for its money). It's traditional power pop at its best, and Belinda sounds phenomenal on it. It really should have been a single.

    I Won't Say I'm In Love has long-outstayed its welcome. Bilge.
    Andsov likes this.
  2. Does the drummer whisper 'shit' between the opening drum fills?
    Deleted member 30181 likes this.
  3. Me, ever the jinx.

    I hate that this song left (I knew it was coming though), but love EVERYTHING about your write-up. Whew. I never imagined I'd see such popjustice given to that song.

    Much like you, I always bothered a bit by the lyric changes, but lived with it. I also sorta thought about how Belinda sounds like she has split personality disorder in the song (singing both parts), but as a Gemini... I was like,'whatevs, this is relatable.'

    That said, now I'm going to imagine other stars of the day that could've done a feature on the song (as the muses). That could've been something.
  4. I feel like it would have been Lisa Stansfield, or someone similar. At the time most of their end-credit performers were at least a few years out of their imperial periods - Peabo, Regina, Elton, Donna Summer, Michael Bolton, Belinda.
  5. That's what I've always heard.
  6. I've just discovered ANOTHER Belinda rarity that I had no idea existed: "I Wouldn't Be Here If I Didn't Love You" from the 1996 Sandra Bullock/Denis Leary (ew) romcom Two If by Sea, a.k.a. Stolen Hearts.

    Yeah, we missed absolutely nothing by not having this in the rate.
  7. Oh I remember paying good money to see that at the cinema! It was OK. Sadly both of them have done much better (including their brief appearance together in Demolition Man with Stallone). Thanks for the nostalgia trip to the 90s!
  8. Yeah, even I would've scored that under a 7. So...
    VivaForever likes this.
  9. Case closed, bring in the dancing lobsters.
  10. And the last time you'll see me as the lowest scorer is for...

    27. A Prayer for Everyone - 7.85
    Extras (A Place on Earth: The Greatest Hits, 1999)

    Highest score: 10 (@Remorque)
    Lowest score: 6 x 2 (me, @Cundy)​

    One of the three new songs for A Place on Earth, A Prayer for Everyone later appeared on the album track/single hodgepodge comp The Collection, as well as The Very Best of Belinda Carlisle. It was also released as a promo single in Sweden.

    It was written by Rick Nowels, Billy Steinberg, and Argentinian singer-songwriter Marie-Claire D'Ubaldo, who also co-wrote k.d. lang's The Consequences of Falling and The Corrs' Intimacy, among others. But she's best known for another song she wrote with Rick and Billy. A song that Belinda almost got her paws on, as she recalls in her memoir (I've already quoted this once in this thread, but hey):

    For some reason I still didn't understand, Miles [Copeland, head of Ark21 and Belinda's then-manager] didn't like Rick. He had expressed that opinion when I made ... Heaven on Earth, and he hadn't changed his mind. It may have cost us a hit.

    One day Rick played me “Falling into You,” a song that he had written with Billy Steinberg and Argentinean singer-writer Marie Claire D’Ubaldo, who recorded it on her 1994 album. I loved it on my first listen. I had the same feeling I did when Rick and Ellen Shipley had played me “Heaven Is a Place on Earth.” It was beautiful.

    We recorded a demo and played it for Miles, who thought it was terrible. I’m pretty sure that he said, “This is shit.” After a heated debate, I quit insisting it be put on the album. It was the first time I had ever gone against my instincts when they were speaking that loudly to me, and I was heartbroken. Many months later, I was filling up my car at a gas station in France and I heard a familiar song coming from the speaker near the pumps. I realized it was “Falling into You.” Celine Dion was singing it, and my heart sank.

    I looked into it and found out that Celine had heard the demo with my voice on it and said yes to the song. Of course, it ended up being the title track of her mega-smash 1996 album, Falling into You, which won two Grammys, sold more than thirty million copies, and spent more than a year in the top 10.

    Honestly I always forget that Falling Into You was even a single in Europe. I don't even remember what it sounds like at the moment, and I can even remember Seduces Me, which was an album track. Like, Because You Loved Me/It's All Coming Back it wasn't. But I digress.

    A Prayer for Everyone is nice. I don't have anything against it. But it has nothing going for it either in my view, and I'm actually rather surprised it's placed higher than Feels Like I've Known You Forever. I also feel like it was an odd choice for a single, even if it was just a promo single in Sweden, considering that it was coming off of All God's Children, giving her two God-themed singles in a row. (Perhaps that's why it was never released elsewhere despite Virgin having gone to the trouble of making a radio edit?)

    @bonnieetclyde (8.6) begs to differ. "Could even have been a great single choice, maybe with a Tin Tin Out remix?" I mean, that probably would have improved it, à la What Can I Do.

    "Love this, seems like a natural successor to Do You Feel Like I Feel with it’s more dancey style - pity it didn’t get a single release but I guess after the flop of All God’s Children they cut their losses," notes @CasperFan (8). I'm not sure I agree that it has a "dancey style," but we'll talk more about that later. I do have to say that I can understand how you got there, but I'm not hearing the clubbiness of Do You Feel, specifically.

    Maybe I just have a different idea of what dance music (available on Bananarama's new album In Stereo, in stores and on Spotify now) sounds like than the rest of you, as @Seventeen Days (8) proclaims it "a house-tinged bop that I can get into. Belinda’s got some good vocals going in here."

    Finally, @unnameable (7) asks, "Is the prayer-bop a genre? Perhaps it should be." Oh, you sweet thing. You have no idea what a monster you've just unleashed. Here. Enjoy some classiques of the genre.

    Anyway, here's Belinda's.
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  11. 26. The Air You Breathe - 7.96
    Extras (Live Your Life Be Free B-side, 1991)

    Highest score: 10 (@Hatbar)
    Lowest score: 5.5 (@Remorque)​

    FINALLY. I have been aching to get rid of this ever since you lice made me throw out Only a Dream far too early. This is fine - I gave it a 7 - but Only a Dream it ain't. They should have swapped places, sorry bout it.

    Anyway, The Air You Breathe was the other B-side to Little Black Book, even appearing on the cassette single and CD2, which Only a Dream didn't. (On the other hand, Only a Dream was used for the 7".) In a moment of pop justice, it hasn't been reused half as endlessly as Only a Dream, but regrettably did make The Very Best of BC tracklist when Only a Dream didn't. Oh well, I shouldn't have expected anything more from Edsel. It was written by David White, whose Discogs profile includes literally nothing else, and Donna Weiss, who also co-wrote a little ditty called Bette Davis Eyes, as well as Dusty's What Do You Do When Love Dies, and Tiffany's Spanish Eyes and Hold an Old Friend's Hand.

    "Well, this is nice. Sorta basic, but it has a nice feel to it," says @pop3blow2 (8.5). Despite their score, @unnameable (9.5) is similarly selective in their praise, saying, "I adore the chorus on this one. The harmonica at the start makes me wonder if she was about to turn into Belinda Wilbury, secret sister to the Travelling Wilburys." I don't understand that reference.

    @Seventeen Days (8), meanwhile, thinks it was "a bop, and yet another Belinda b-side that should have been album material." @CasperFan (8.5) takes it a step further, saying, "This is wasted as a b-side, could have been a single in it’s own right - reminds me a little of Fool For Love melodically."

    And of course, the most effusive praise comes from @tylerc904 (9): "Better than almost the entire album. Why Belinda?!" You are as categorically wrong about this as you were about your song rankings on Shania's Up! album. (Remember those good old days when we didn't know Shania was a Trump supporter? Blessed times. Ignorance really was bliss.)

    Tomorrow: we bid adieu to a song with four 10's (we've maxed out at two so far!).
  12. I literally can't remember how either of these eliminations go.
  13. I love The Air you Breathe so I'm glad it's done well, it should have been on the album replacing Love Revolution or Emotional Highway.
  14. 25. Vision of You - 8.23
    Runaway Horses

    Highest score: 10 x 4 (@tylerc904, @Cundy, @unnameable, @Remorque)
    Lowest score: 5 (@Seventeen Days)​

    For being such a middling song, Vision of Love is arguably one of the most ubiquitous songs in Belinda's discography. A Rick/Ellen co-write, Vision of Love was released as a single twice: one in 1990, then remixed in 1991. I'm pleased to tell you I own a copy of the 12" single of the latter version, pressed on clear vinyl with a backing card... sadly, it was not still in the super cool zipper bag! The original mix peaked at #41 for two consecutive weeks in the UK, while the remix fared even worse, charting for one week at #71.

    It was later covered by Jennifer "Did That Céline Dion Song and Was Also on the Barney Movie Soundtrack" Rush on her self-titled album, which was only released in mainland Europe (and Indonesia), I assume because she had been flopping so hard that she couldn't get a deal anywhere else. Poor it. She also released it as a single, and recorded a version in Spanish, because of course she did.

    More compellingly, Lea Salonga also covered it on her own self-titled album, her international debut. At the time, Lea was best known for her work in musicals, but she'd just appeared as the singing voice of Princess Jasmine in Disney's Aladdin, and would later be the singing voice of Mulan, making her one of only two women I know of to voice two different Disney princesses. (The other, of course, is Jennifer "God" Hale, the voice of Cinderella since the late '90s, who also voiced Aurora on House of Mouse. Thus Lea is the only person to voice two different Disney princesses on film, and God is the only person to voice two different princesses as a speaking voice.) You may find yourself asking at this point, is any of this Disney stuff even relevant? Of course it's not, but I love Lea Salonga and I love Jennifer Hale and I know that @pop3blow2 will read this, if no one else.

    @Untitled (7.5) appraises it as "lovely and delicate but far from her peak," which I totally agree with. (I gave it a 6.5, incidentally.) @Seventeen Days (5) calls it "a bit middling, compared to some of her other ballads. I do like the pizzicato strings peppered throughout, though."

    Meanwhile, @bonnieetclyde (8) just wanted something else entirely, explaining, "A great track but I always prefer uptempo Belinda over mid-tempo or ballads." @Hudweiser (6) thinks the "good middle eight saves this from a coma, but it was a mis-step in the campaign and for some reason she released the damn thing twice!?"

    @tylerc904 (10) thinks it deserved that treatment, though: "I will be in shock for the rest of my life that this flopped TWICE. It is a late 80's/early 90's ballad mastered to perfection, even Diane Warren should have been gagged. Really stunning." @CasperFan (9) seems to be in agreement, saying, "Love this song - such a beautiful melody and another killer middle 8, how was this not a hit, despite being released several times? Belinda’s best ballad??? I think so…"

    Finally, @unnameable (10) refers back to one of my previous masterworks: "In the 1989 rate, this got my 11. It’s such a a beautiful song, it ranks up there alongside her best. It’s as beautiful a ballad as Eternal Flame for my money." I mean Eternal Flame is also overrated, so I'll accept that argument.

    Album version:

    Single edit:

    '91 remix:
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  15. And since they wouldn't all fit above, the covers:

    You know, for as much as I enjoy mocking Jennifer Rush, her version's not that bad, actually. She needs to not sing like that, but the production is actually better than Belinda's version. The production on Lea's, though... in fact, on that whole album... well, no wonder it flopped. (So hard, in fact, that she hasn't released an album outside the Philippines since, despite being a fairly well-known musical actress. Ddddddddddddddd.)

    Anyway, I've determined that what Vision of You really needs is a poppers o'clock 7th Heaven or Matt Pop remix. It wants to be a bop and just got trapped in ballad territory, I can tell. Send it to Max Martin and Céline tibb.
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  16. 24. Fool for Love - 8.32
    Heaven on Earth

    Highest score: 10 x 2 (@Robsolete, @unnameable)
    Lowest score: 7 x 2 (@Cundy, @Remorque)​

    Yeah, I can't be mad about this placement. Maybe a little high, but not too bad. Fool for Love was written by Robbie "IDKH" Seidman, and I actually don't have anything else to say about it? I did get my life to it the other day in the subway parking lot.

    "It tends to blend together with World Without You and We Can Change," says @Untitled (9). "I like how they feel like one long glorious song." I... would not have lumped World Without You in there, especially with I Get Weak between them, but you do you! As I said before, I feel this way about the Change/Fool/Nobody run.

    Shot glasses ready? Go! "Wonderful vocals. Another track reminiscent of The Go-Go's sound," says @bonnieetclyde (8).

    "Probably the best non-single on the album. Prefer it to half the actual singles too," observes @tylerc904 (7.5), and for once we're in agreement. To be precise, I prefer it to three of the five singles dddd.

    @Seventeen Days (8) is headed for ha shelf of Freud. "This one is definitely fun and upbeat. I imagine there’s some kind of psychology to a repetitive chorus that makes it appealing, but I am bopping either way."

    And another shot for the ultra-specific request of a CRJ cover... "The second-best song called 'Fool for Love' (after Stefy, obviously), this song is a complete banger. This calls out for a Carly Rae cover," saith @unnameable (10). I literally don't know who Stefy is.

    And finally, three comments that focused in on one part of the song, which just amused me:
    • "Love all the la la la’s at the end." - @Hatbar (9)
    • "Another single contender, such a summery, radio friendly song-would rather this as a single than I Feel Free or Love Never Dies." (Who wouldn't?) "Love the outro la la la’s." - @CasperFan (8.5)
    • "Harmony ‘La La La’s’. Amazing." - @pop3blow2 (8.6)

    Tomorrow: five 10's and another 11 leave.
  17. Ah, heathenry from the voters accompanied by ignorance from our host. Those two were obvious 10s.

    To explain the references:
    The Travelling Wilburys were a group formed by little known (1) musicians George Harrison and Jeff Lynn when they asked their mates Bob Dylan, Roy Orbison and Tom Petty to work on a project for fun. Ask your mum and dad, they may have heard of one of these musicians. Anyway, this team had a fairly successful album whose biggest hit I have linked to below, and whose harmonica heavy sounds I am reminded of by The Air You Breathe

    Stefy were a band from Orange County. They supported The Pipettes (2) on a UK tour, which is where I came to know of them. They released one amazing album and also had a couple of songs on the "John Tucker Must Die" soundtrack (3). It includes the following bop:

    (1) "Little known" to anyone born after 1990, "Fucking legendary" to everyone else.
    (2) Ask a PJ oldie if you haven't heard of them. Seriously.
    (3) You know the movie, the one where Ashanti is so upset by the pool boy from Desperate Housewives that she gets Brittany Snow to break his heart...only she winds up falling for Gossip Girl. That one.
    berserkboi likes this.
  18. Fool For Love not making top 20 is some serious bullshit.

    It should have absolutely been a single.
    bonnieetclyde likes this.
  19. You rang? Haha! Ooooh...I'm always here for Disney Trivia hour with @VivaForever

    I so adore Lea Salonga. I even have a soft spot for that flop album with 'Vision Of You' on it. I bought it when it came it in the early 90s. At the time, I thought I was hot stuff knowing that Princess Jasmine had a pop album! It hasn't aged the best, to be fair. I did shortlist a couple of songs (including Vision Of You) from it awhile back as potentials for a PJOPS that was to feature ethnic based artists. Sadly, I figured about any song from that album would, rightfully, get slaughtered...so I bailed on that idea.

    She even got me into Miss Saigon a bit in my youth, because I just wanted to hear her more.
    VivaForever and WhipperSnapper like this.
  20. I heard her version of Falling Into You in Slovenia a few years ago. It was playing out of what appeared to be an abandoned house on Lake Bled, all smashed windows and creepy architecture - and Belinda Carlisle singing from it.
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