Kelly Clarkson | Page 2 | The Popjustice Forum

Kelly Clarkson

Discussion in 'Comeback corner' started by Tangled_Up, Mar 15, 2008.

  1. Though I enjoyed Breakaway - I hope Kelly takes an extended break from the music scene.

    As for the drama that went down, Kelly was incredibly stupid to make a remark that Clive was "like 70 years old; you shouldn't like my music" To be ageist about the style of music you make is ridiculous. As a performer, you would hope that what you are doing is reaching everyone. To question Clive's judgement - since he was looking out for the longevity of her career, was infantile. I'm sure Kelly's manager was fighting for her - because he felt that Kelly could do no wrong. However, he also thought everyone was going to be buying tickets to see her in larger venues, too - but that didn't happen. Even if the negative press had people shying away from My December - that wouldn't have prevented them from seeing her perform her older songs live. Anyhow - let's hope she learned from the whole debacle.
  2. Steve

    Steve Guest

    The "My December" release really only went ahead because Jeff Kwatinetz fought for Kelly, coercing the label into releasing it by booking the arena tour to support the record. They agreed to test the market with "Never Again" at first, but wouldn't give an actual album release date until she went on TV shows promoting it and saying that the album would be due in the summer. Clive hated it, had tried to humilate her in front of SonyBMG shareholders, etc. and when it looked like he could be wrong, basically sabotaged the record - if the sole single can be a hit, and the album can basically sell 1.6million worldwide, just with her core fanbase and her star text, despite the torrent of negative publicity he orchestrated, imagine what a few more singles, videos and promotion could have done.

    The problem with the analogies is that Kelly had already proved herself three times, with "Behind These Hazel Eyes," "Because Of You" and "Walk Away," all of which were pretty major hits that she wrote the majority of - Ben Moody said that she rang him, and asked him to come to her hotel, where she promptly performed "Because Of You" in acapella form, then he went away and fleshed out the instrumentation with David Hodges. That went on to become her biggest single internationally, overtaking "Since U Been Gone", yet Clive hated it, and her re-recording of "Behind These Hazel Eyes," where she changed the melody and lyrics, as she was pissed off at being told she would go and write with Max and Luke, and instead, when she arrived, was told to sing songs they'd already written. For "My December," she wrote the songs with her bandmates, but picked a slightly left-of-centre, cool producer, fresh from success with Regina Spektor, not the kind of pop producers Clive has on his Blackberry, and so he asked her to record some songs Dr. Luke had written already, and the cover version of Linday Lohan's "Black Hole," to be singles, even though she'd finished the album, executive produced it and was ready to promote it. She's not the first female to have trouble being allowed to write her own songs, although you'd have thought it would have been more relaxed by now - Dolly Parton, one of the world's greatest female songwriters, had already had songs performed by other acts, yet her first record contract involved them trying to make her sing the bubblegum pop of the time, and even her lead country single was a track they picked for her that she didn't write. Similarly, Mariah Carey was signed on the strength of her voice, rather than her demos, but went onto write the mass majority of her material.

    Clive has had a major flop with Blake Lewis' record now, anyway, so it's no surprise he's been moved out of his role - he obviously misjudged the radio friendliness of that record - meanwhile, Jordin Sparks and Carrie Underwood, who he let be assigned to other A&R and executive producers, went onto have bigger, much more successful albums. Kelly is working with a new team at RCA, as there's been a reshuffle, and is writing with Ryan Tedder, Max Martin (who's also writing with a new Jive signing from Ireland called Lesley Roy), Louis Biancaniello and Sam Watters, and going back on tour with Reba to showcase some new songs.
  3. paul lekakis

    paul lekakis Guest

    Thanks for that elaborate report.
    Clive sounds like a misogynist dick who doesn't believe women can write records...
  4. The way I'm seeing things at the moment, Album #4 won't sound anything like Breakaway, but it'll definitely be more commercial than My December. Hopefully it'll sound a bit more like OneRepublic's edgier stuff rather than "Apologize" or "Bleeding Love" or stuff like that.
  5. They went with the wrong song to launch Blake Lewis. I think it was on Clive Davis' insistence too because Blake didn't like it. It should have been "Without You".
  6. This is where we disagree. "Never Again" and My December were, kindly, a tuneless heap of mess. They sold what they sold solely because of, as you put it, her core fanbase and star text. Impressive? Yes. Proof of her songwriting talent? Hardly.

    Not to say Clive wasn't a dick--he probably was, and still is. Not to say Kelly wasn't a stubborn idiot--she very well could have been. The point is that My December just didn't have one great pop song on it...which is awkward, when you're a pop star. I hope album #3 lets her tweak a well-written song into her next "Because Of You," rather than giving her a chance to pen another pretty-yet-momentumless "Sober."

    As far as Blake is concerned, "End Of The World" deserves to be as massive as "Bleeding Love" or "Apologize." Oh well.
  7. In a studio far far away with writer's block, wondering where it all went wrong. :) Only joking...I do agree though, My December was a bit of mess. As for Clive Davis, well he's just as bad, and that's not the first time he's reduced an artist to mulch. He was a key figure in Gary Barlow's demise post Take That, I seem to remember from reading My Take.
  8. vasilios

    vasilios Guest

  9. Steve

    Steve Guest

    But the album isn't meant to be a run-of-the-mill, full-to-the-brim-of-catchy-melodies pop album, it's a somewhat angry, bitter break-up record. I think there are plenty of hooks in there, from One Minute (which was written just after the Breakaway cut off point with kara and Chantal anyway) to the lush Sober to the new-wave-esque How I Feel, plus Don't Waste Your Time and Judas, which could easily fit onto a say, Garbage record. If people were more exposed to it, comparing the songs to other hits, and even Never Again, which I think is the least hooky track on the record, there's no reason why the others wouldn't have worked as well. Gwen Stefani is meant to be a pop star too, but Wind It Up lacks any form of melody!

    "Because Of You" was written by Kelly, without much changing from Dave and Ben - that's the point. There's a lot to be said for giving songs a glossy production and big orchestra as opposed to a live-sounding band; it sounds rawer. She sold them a lot of records, so surely she earned the right to release an album as she wanted, one that scored just as well, if not better, in critical reviews, and one which seems to be well liked by her fanbase.

    Blake should have had different singles and better videos, but Clive was the one in control...
  10. vasilios

    vasilios Guest

    Kelly & Blake 'You Clive Thought Wrong' (The Boo Hoo remix duet featuring Monica)
  11. Steve

    Steve Guest

    Does Katharine McPhee need to be on BVs as well? I forget how much influence he had on her career! Ace Of Base need to be mentioned too, after they wrote "No Good Lover" about him!
  12. Clive has a very awkward reputation in the industry & has savaged many peoples careers who did not want to listen to his advice.

    Kelly will bounce back from this for sure, others like Deborah Cox & Ace Of Base will never be as lucky, especially the latter in America anyway.

    Monica was incredibly lucky she was not dropped after her last album totally tanked despite a selection of singles released, the album went nowhere even if it was by far her worst album & one of the worst R'N'B / Hip Hop albums I have ever heard with only one good song I was shocked it did so badly but again like Kelly that was down to his dirty tactics.

    This happens a hell of a lot throughout the industry, don't listen to those in charge expect no backing, your album to tank & you be faxed your pink slip!! Nasty & very cut throat but its the law of the land.

    I am just so happy Kelly will continue on & hopefully blow everyones socks off with the new album. She really deserves it!
  13. someboy0716

    someboy0716 Guest

    I really don't think Clive Davis deserves to be bashed over and over again. He's helped so many people become successful, he executive produced 'Breakaway', and knew that 'Bleeding Love' would be perfect for Leona. He probably has way more misses than hits these days, but he still strikes gold now and then and music is all the better for it.
  14. Then why does he no longer have his job? He has done good for a lot of artists (including Kelly) but something has obviously gone wrong.
  15. someboy0716

    someboy0716 Guest

    Like I said, more misses than hits these days, but he's still a very intelligent man. He'll probably craft the new Whitney album into a world event that makes Leona as big as a mouse.
  16. Steve

    Steve Guest

    If he still gets to work on it alone; I can easily see them giving her at least a co-A&R/executive producer, especially considering the time she's worked on it and the fact he no longer has his old job.

    Also, there were four A&R men buying in and picking songs for Leona, including "Bleeding Love," and Simon Cowell was actively involved as well as Clive - Clive isn't even mentioned as an 'executive producer' on the international version, only the USA one (meaning he probably picked "The Sweet Escape Part II" AKA "Forgive Me" and "Misses Glass").
  17. mr PJ asked 'what shall we ask her'

    So we may aswell give him ideas, mine would be

    - Why didn't you come to Newcastle last year?
    - What made you choose 'My life would suck without you' as the lead single?
    - Which producers did you work with on the album?
  18. - Will you be doing an All I Ever Wanted Tour 2009? Because Roxie would like to go.
  19. *Do you think Girls Aloud, the Sugababes or The Saturdays would make it in America in today's climate?
    *Are you still happy with My December two years later?
    *Are you willing to ever perform "Irvine" live?
    *What is the uptempo to ballad ratio of All I Ever Wanted, and what do you think will be the singles from it?
    *Have you helped Leona Lewis along, and would you offer any advice to Alexandra Burke?
  20. - Which album in your career so far, excluding All I Ever Wanted, is your favourite?
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