ohnostalgia
Staff member
She/her
It’s nice to have a place to talk about Kpop without people asking us if we've heard about BTS. No, it’s not serious, it’s just nice.
KPB Classique ⚣ 2018-2019 Edition ~ FINALE
- Thread starter boom bazooka joe
- Start date
It’s nice to have a place to talk about Kpop without people asking us if we've heard about BTS. No, it’s not serious, it’s just nice.
ohnostalgia
Staff member
She/her
You could assume that those are our true feelings on the songs for once, that would be nice. All you’ve done from the very first elimination is be passive aggressive and assume people aren’t voting based on their very real dislike for the songs chosen. I cannot stand any of their voices except Jungkook and he is not enough to carry the group. What am I supposed to do with songs that I feel were tanked by the rap line and then also the addition of V and Jimin?
The only people being way too serious here are BTS stans.
F
Fertilizer
Individually, sure! I can definitely believe that. But the overall trend is just way too suspicious. Like, it's a rate, it is what it is, biases will play a part, but denying the reality at hand does nobody any favors.
These quite different sounding songs all being eliminated back to back to back to back, and it's definitely not because every one of those voters just happen to have very high standards for vocals, or just happens to really hate sugary pop songs like Boy With Luv, AND edgy emo-pop songs like Fake Love, AND chill vibes rap like Seoul, AND noisefests like IDOL, AND minimalistic R&B numbers, all produced and written by different people. It's not a Stray Kids case where they have a defined style and it's obviously a style that is controversial/not PJ-friendly. Like... let's be fucking for real?
And most of those songs are massive singles that aren't just popular with "stans". K-Pop multis who don't have a bone to pick with the group (actually not even the group or its members, which would be almost understandable [see Super Junior, etc], but... their fanbase? lol) all recognize them as defining songs of the years we are rating here, which is WHY they are here. Not because we just wanted to get hit in the head with a shovel!
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I'm not even a BTS stan, I just... don't think their songs here are inherently worse than any groups', and the way they've been tanked doesn't feel right. Though choosing to tank all of a group's (quite varied) songs and then saying the group's fans (or even just enjoyers) are the ones in the wrong for being mad about it... that's some funny logic.
he/him
It could just be… hear me out… that BTS’ output just isn’t that great? Remove the insane fans, hokey lore and visuals and what’s left is… just average pop music. They weren’t doing anything unique or groundbreaking or whatever ever Armys want you to believe. You can find better music from other groups in loads.
ohnostalgia
Staff member
She/her
I also fail to see what’s so different between the group BTS songs we’ve eliminated.
I mean, the same could be said about pretty much every other group here, or are we acting like most of these GOT7, SHINee, TXT, etc songs are some kind of groundbreaking masterpieces?
F
Fertilizer
Something that we definitely don't have time for here on pop justice dot com!
Again: I'm not under the impression anyone will change their minds about the group at this point, but like... why pretend that there's no bias? Not even a little bit? No no, it's all about putting on our best music critic hats. Girls... please. I would respect a bit of honesty so much more.
Like I said, there are always biases, and this particular bias pisses me off because I like these songs and I'm gonna vent about it. People in all PJ rates complain about this stuff, wether it be for non-album tracks, for songs featuring men, for controversies surrounding an artist or album campaign, for a song being from a non-Big 4 groups, all that stuff that affects scores allegedly unfairly, but this is where a line is drawn and the bias will not be acknowledged?
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he/him
I’m gonna level with some of you gals because I love you all and I come from a pretty neutral place of recently enjoying some BTS output quite a bit while never being a full blown stan and also no longer being a hater.
For non-BTS fans, yes, a place where they are not the automatic 1st and assumed favorite across all metrics is nice. PJ is literally one of the only places like that, so I get the appeal.
Also, truly — no one really tanked BTS the way some of you are thinking. In fact, @Glitterizer (who you know you are one of my absolute besties are one of my favorite people on this forum), only 3 people had an overall BTS average lower than your average for another group in this rate with the same amount of songs. (Neither of which were ohnostalgia or nikky, but one of them WAS Salami ddd, and he gave a BTS song an 11.)
I was nervous when the song list was initially formed knowing how many BTS songs showed up, but as the ballots came in, there was really no person who out and out trashed every one of their inclusions. It was really a case of each voter having some (not all) of their songs that they liked and some they really didn’t. And the averages fell the way they did. But you are looking at some of their most polarizing offerings and well, none of it really surprised me when all was said and done. It also doesn’t surprise me that their most pleasant song, a B Side that wasn’t crammed down everyone’s throat upon release, ended up performing the best here.
Anyway. We all have faves that get absolutely trashed here (Justice for Libido, Sticker, and Losing You by Wonho!) but it’s all part of the game.
And thank you all for the mess fff.
And for what it’s worth I discovered two new songs by BTS (Seoul and Singularity) that I absolutely fell in love with thanks to this rate so at least ONE person didn’t mind the way it all turned out ddd.
For non-BTS fans, yes, a place where they are not the automatic 1st and assumed favorite across all metrics is nice. PJ is literally one of the only places like that, so I get the appeal.
Also, truly — no one really tanked BTS the way some of you are thinking. In fact, @Glitterizer (who you know you are one of my absolute besties are one of my favorite people on this forum), only 3 people had an overall BTS average lower than your average for another group in this rate with the same amount of songs. (Neither of which were ohnostalgia or nikky, but one of them WAS Salami ddd, and he gave a BTS song an 11.)
I was nervous when the song list was initially formed knowing how many BTS songs showed up, but as the ballots came in, there was really no person who out and out trashed every one of their inclusions. It was really a case of each voter having some (not all) of their songs that they liked and some they really didn’t. And the averages fell the way they did. But you are looking at some of their most polarizing offerings and well, none of it really surprised me when all was said and done. It also doesn’t surprise me that their most pleasant song, a B Side that wasn’t crammed down everyone’s throat upon release, ended up performing the best here.
Anyway. We all have faves that get absolutely trashed here (Justice for Libido, Sticker, and Losing You by Wonho!) but it’s all part of the game.
And thank you all for the mess fff.
And for what it’s worth I discovered two new songs by BTS (Seoul and Singularity) that I absolutely fell in love with thanks to this rate so at least ONE person didn’t mind the way it all turned out ddd.
F
Fertilizer
Well yes, I am not mad at all, I'm just hyping up the thread and the post count!
The reason I'm actually mad lies in the Lana Del Rate and this just compounded on it, but that's neither here nor there.
The reason I'm actually mad lies in the Lana Del Rate and this just compounded on it, but that's neither here nor there.
he/him
Making up for the two most recent flop eliminations, tea!Well yes, I am not mad at all, I'm just hyping up the thread and the post count!
Well yes, I am not mad at all, I'm just hyping up the thread and the post count!
The reason I'm actually mad lies in the Lana Del Rate and this just compounded on it, but that's neither here nor there.
Generating engagement and getting that page count up in two rates at the same time
he/him
Compared to stuff like IDOL, Boy With Luv and Fake Love?
I’m not sure what you want me to say or admit. I can honest to god say I voted without any sort of agenda against BTS and was willing to give these songs a listen with a fresh perspective since we’re over a good half a decade removed from this era of the group and this was before they started serving up generic slop like Dynamite and Permission to Dance. But I don’t think it touches the best of what other groups have to offer, sorry.
ohnostalgia
Staff member
She/her
@boom bazooka joe defending my honour? *platonic swoon*
Can I just say for the record:
My K-Pop heyday was back in 2010-2015. I kinda fell off after all my fave groups went into service/lost members, and am therefore kinda in the dark about a lot of the songs/groups in this rate. I don't know a lot of members' names (let alone which ones have abs!), so I came into this playlist completely fresh.
Now, I'll admit (as I mentioned in my commentary), I will never understand why BTS was the K-Pop group to break the US/world (I feel like there are many others that could/should have), but I don't have any particular vendetta against them. In fact, as someone who's not been in the K-Pop section of the forum for a while...I am quite shocked to see this rate going the way it is!
I found the majority of these songs to be kinda lacklustre (the opposite of my last rate, to my surprise!). I rated them all pretty middling (even my faves/the songs I knew!), and then adjust accordingly (spacing out my lowest scores to the bottom, and my highest up to the top). So I promise, my meh scores aren't tanking BTS on purpose.
The song that's left was a very lovely surprise, and I've rated it accordingly.
My K-Pop heyday was back in 2010-2015. I kinda fell off after all my fave groups went into service/lost members, and am therefore kinda in the dark about a lot of the songs/groups in this rate. I don't know a lot of members' names (let alone which ones have abs!), so I came into this playlist completely fresh.
Now, I'll admit (as I mentioned in my commentary), I will never understand why BTS was the K-Pop group to break the US/world (I feel like there are many others that could/should have), but I don't have any particular vendetta against them. In fact, as someone who's not been in the K-Pop section of the forum for a while...I am quite shocked to see this rate going the way it is!
I found the majority of these songs to be kinda lacklustre (the opposite of my last rate, to my surprise!). I rated them all pretty middling (even my faves/the songs I knew!), and then adjust accordingly (spacing out my lowest scores to the bottom, and my highest up to the top). So I promise, my meh scores aren't tanking BTS on purpose.
The song that's left was a very lovely surprise, and I've rated it accordingly.
he/him
Meanwhile I know which ones have abs before I know their names. Get your priorities straight!
Damn, Fake Love is a tragic elimination. I understand not being into Singularity or Seoul stylistically (even if I disagree), but Fake Love is a great song that I expected to do better.
I did expect the BTS tracks to die out quickly, but it wouldn’t be a proper 2018-19 rate without them! We all had to suffer through Love Scenario after all.
I’m getting concerned that Jopping will make it to the top 25, mess!
I did expect the BTS tracks to die out quickly, but it wouldn’t be a proper 2018-19 rate without them! We all had to suffer through Love Scenario after all.
I’m getting concerned that Jopping will make it to the top 25, mess!
he/him
Homophobia.
Holland | I'm Not Afraid
Holland Twin Single Vol.1 - The 2nd Digital Single
July 6, 2018
Submitted by ohnostalgia, soratami
Score: 7.23
TOPS: (10) @Christopher @ohnostalgia (9.75) @Untouchable Ace (9) @soratami @tj-x (8.5) @humbleandkindness80s @ysev (8) @boom bazooka joe @Glitterizer @Joli Chat @leedlelee... @Wills
BOTTOMS: (6) @askew @chrisjche @eatyourself @nikkysan @RUNAWAY @yeeungelic (5) @Salami (2) @KimLippington
I’m disappointed in you home of sexuals. At #42, we say goodbye to Holland’s “I’m Not Afraid.” Holland, born Go Tae Seop, is mostly known for being the first (and only) openly gay K-Pop Idol. He even named his stage name after Holland, the first country to legalize gay marriage. And while Holland is an independent artist with no major company backing or support, his debut single, “Neverland” had over 1 million views in its’ first 24 hours. Later that year, he released this, the aptly titled “I’m Not Afraid.” I’m Not Afraid was written by Nassun, Holland, and Taemin (not that Taemin), and produced by Dalgui.
“I’m Not Afraid” is pretty self explanatory. Over the repeated refrain “I’m not afraid anymore / I’m not afraid anymore,” Holland sings of a love that he’s no longer ashamed to admit and speak about out loud. It doesn’t say a lot (seriously, there are barely any lyrics to this song), but it’s frankness and straight-forwardedness in an industry should be commended, even if it’s a bit simplistic.
Holland has certainly faced his challenges being an out Idol in an unfortunately homophobic industry. The budget is non-existent. He certainly isn’t working with God tier writers or producers. He’s faced tons of discrimination. But damn it, he’s trying his hardest! I’m not generally the type of person that thinks someone should be awarded simply for “being gay,” but in this case, I do give him more leeway simply for existing in a world that is clearly not making it easy on him.
Most of his music? It’s fine. It doesn’t gag me quite in the way I want, but it’s certainly pleasant enough. His production is usually glittery synthy goodness, which I can appreciate. Vocally? He kind of make Troye sound like Ariana (the range is certainly … a limitation), but never pushes it beyond his own capabilities, so it’s not too jarring.
In 2019, Holland released his EP of the same name, and I noticed a track right after this called “I’m So Afraid.” It acts as a really interesting counterpart. In fact, the song starts with a simple piano motif and the exact same melody as the verses of “I’m Not Afraid,” only to turn into a chopped and screwed chorus repeating “I’m So Afraid.” Kind of a ballsy switch up on his song, tbh.
The video is fairly simple, but it shows Holland friends partying it up at a house party, with ample opportunity for Holland to make out with some stud. Good for her, both for making out with a stud, AND continuing to depict gay love in his music videos.
While I definitely give him a pass for some of his shortcomings, some of you – did not. RUNAWAY drags: ”the sentiment of this song is nice, but his vocals are just so poor it totally fails at making any impact….” I won’t disagree and say that I personally wish I was more impacted by listening to the song, so I get that. KimLippington made me spit out my coffee with laughter when I first got their commentary: ”He’s aspirational in a sense that, I too am very gay with no talent for singing.” Fucking BYE! MmmDani gets the reason people like this, even if he himself doesn’t care for it too much: ”Incredibly inoffensive, ultimately uninteresting… I suspect that this is a widely beloved and powerful song because of the context/video, but I still don’t think the song itself is on the same level as a lot of others in this rate.”
Token straight Salami has no time for this gay nonsense: ”I can't work it out, is he afraid anymore? Way too repetitive.” I screamed. I love you, Salami.
A few others commented on the production, which really is quite dreamy and enjoyable. Glitterizer considers a deeper dive: ”every song of his that i have listened to has been a sparkly synthfest, maybe i should stan.” Maybe you should! And chrisjche recognizes it’s shortcomings while still enjoying: ”I wish there was a bit more to the chorus but I enjoy the production.”
Christopher sees this going harder with a better vocalist: ”I could tell in the bridge we were building to a big chorus. While I wish it had more lyrical diversity, I’m very pleased with the contrast from the verses. The vocals are definitely serviceable, though I feel this could have really gone off with a different singer? But having read up on Holland’s story…we have no choice but to stan. #harling”
But you know who does get it? ohnostalgia gets it. ”KPJC 2018 girlies know.” Oh I wish I was there for those early days.
Holland has had a few good tunes come out recently, that you should check out if he piques your interest at all. His most recent, “NUMBER BOY,” features ZB1 heartthrob and my husband Kim Ji Woong in the MV, and before that, he released a beautiful OST for the terrible BL that he starred in called Ocean like me. (Seriously, it’s bad, don’t watch it – he’s not much of an actor either ffff, but the song is great!)
Viewing Material
(This MV is rated 19 LMFAO)
Next elimination: We round out our bottom 10. Who doesn't deserve to make it to Top 40?
Holland | I'm Not Afraid
Holland Twin Single Vol.1 - The 2nd Digital Single
July 6, 2018
Submitted by ohnostalgia, soratami
Score: 7.23
TOPS: (10) @Christopher @ohnostalgia (9.75) @Untouchable Ace (9) @soratami @tj-x (8.5) @humbleandkindness80s @ysev (8) @boom bazooka joe @Glitterizer @Joli Chat @leedlelee... @Wills
BOTTOMS: (6) @askew @chrisjche @eatyourself @nikkysan @RUNAWAY @yeeungelic (5) @Salami (2) @KimLippington
5 VOTES: 42
10 VOTES: 42
15 VOTES: 45
20 VOTES: 39
FINAL PLACEMENT: 42
10 VOTES: 42
15 VOTES: 45
20 VOTES: 39
FINAL PLACEMENT: 42
I’m disappointed in you home of sexuals. At #42, we say goodbye to Holland’s “I’m Not Afraid.” Holland, born Go Tae Seop, is mostly known for being the first (and only) openly gay K-Pop Idol. He even named his stage name after Holland, the first country to legalize gay marriage. And while Holland is an independent artist with no major company backing or support, his debut single, “Neverland” had over 1 million views in its’ first 24 hours. Later that year, he released this, the aptly titled “I’m Not Afraid.” I’m Not Afraid was written by Nassun, Holland, and Taemin (not that Taemin), and produced by Dalgui.
“I’m Not Afraid” is pretty self explanatory. Over the repeated refrain “I’m not afraid anymore / I’m not afraid anymore,” Holland sings of a love that he’s no longer ashamed to admit and speak about out loud. It doesn’t say a lot (seriously, there are barely any lyrics to this song), but it’s frankness and straight-forwardedness in an industry should be commended, even if it’s a bit simplistic.
Holland has certainly faced his challenges being an out Idol in an unfortunately homophobic industry. The budget is non-existent. He certainly isn’t working with God tier writers or producers. He’s faced tons of discrimination. But damn it, he’s trying his hardest! I’m not generally the type of person that thinks someone should be awarded simply for “being gay,” but in this case, I do give him more leeway simply for existing in a world that is clearly not making it easy on him.
Most of his music? It’s fine. It doesn’t gag me quite in the way I want, but it’s certainly pleasant enough. His production is usually glittery synthy goodness, which I can appreciate. Vocally? He kind of make Troye sound like Ariana (the range is certainly … a limitation), but never pushes it beyond his own capabilities, so it’s not too jarring.
In 2019, Holland released his EP of the same name, and I noticed a track right after this called “I’m So Afraid.” It acts as a really interesting counterpart. In fact, the song starts with a simple piano motif and the exact same melody as the verses of “I’m Not Afraid,” only to turn into a chopped and screwed chorus repeating “I’m So Afraid.” Kind of a ballsy switch up on his song, tbh.
The video is fairly simple, but it shows Holland friends partying it up at a house party, with ample opportunity for Holland to make out with some stud. Good for her, both for making out with a stud, AND continuing to depict gay love in his music videos.
While I definitely give him a pass for some of his shortcomings, some of you – did not. RUNAWAY drags: ”the sentiment of this song is nice, but his vocals are just so poor it totally fails at making any impact….” I won’t disagree and say that I personally wish I was more impacted by listening to the song, so I get that. KimLippington made me spit out my coffee with laughter when I first got their commentary: ”He’s aspirational in a sense that, I too am very gay with no talent for singing.” Fucking BYE! MmmDani gets the reason people like this, even if he himself doesn’t care for it too much: ”Incredibly inoffensive, ultimately uninteresting… I suspect that this is a widely beloved and powerful song because of the context/video, but I still don’t think the song itself is on the same level as a lot of others in this rate.”
Token straight Salami has no time for this gay nonsense: ”I can't work it out, is he afraid anymore? Way too repetitive.” I screamed. I love you, Salami.
A few others commented on the production, which really is quite dreamy and enjoyable. Glitterizer considers a deeper dive: ”every song of his that i have listened to has been a sparkly synthfest, maybe i should stan.” Maybe you should! And chrisjche recognizes it’s shortcomings while still enjoying: ”I wish there was a bit more to the chorus but I enjoy the production.”
Christopher sees this going harder with a better vocalist: ”I could tell in the bridge we were building to a big chorus. While I wish it had more lyrical diversity, I’m very pleased with the contrast from the verses. The vocals are definitely serviceable, though I feel this could have really gone off with a different singer? But having read up on Holland’s story…we have no choice but to stan. #harling”
But you know who does get it? ohnostalgia gets it. ”KPJC 2018 girlies know.” Oh I wish I was there for those early days.
Holland has had a few good tunes come out recently, that you should check out if he piques your interest at all. His most recent, “NUMBER BOY,” features ZB1 heartthrob and my husband Kim Ji Woong in the MV, and before that, he released a beautiful OST for the terrible BL that he starred in called Ocean like me. (Seriously, it’s bad, don’t watch it – he’s not much of an actor either ffff, but the song is great!)
Viewing Material
(This MV is rated 19 LMFAO)
Next elimination: We round out our bottom 10. Who doesn't deserve to make it to Top 40?
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