Lady Gaga

[Synthline]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

It's a nice analogy, yes. It's a brilliantly written song. It just isn't religious or controversial, yet it was approached like it was religious or controversial, and Gaga reveled in this as she does with anything that 'heightens' her work.

I don't think she reveled in any attempt at legitimate "controversy" seeing as the video turned out to be just as campy and an exercise in kitsch as the song itself. In retrospect, the whole "LET THE CULTURAL BAPTISM BEGIN" business was really just done with one eye closed and her tongue firmly on her cheek.

 

[Chris_P]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

an exercise in kitsch as the song itself.

Nothing she will ever do will match Judas the song at that. I think. I loved the video. The baptism scene with the waves, the lipstick gun, her crying. So wonderful.

 

[Lindsay Lohan]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

Born This Way is basically tied with Bad Romance as her third most successful single, right behind Just Dance in 2nd and Poker Face in 1st though.

I think it goes Poker Face > Bad Romance > ... > Just Dance > Born This Way.

Just Dance did really well in the US (6.5 millions downloads, Bad Romance has 5+ millions and Born This Way has 3.5 millions) but it did not smash everywhere like Bad Romance - especially in Europe, like in France for example. And if we're talking cultural impact then the gap between Bad Romance and Just Dance is even bigger.

Born This Way did very well, but it did not have the same longevity as the other hits mentioned here, went #1 in a lot of countries etc. but i think the digital sales in the US speak for themselves. They were very front loaded too.

 

[TeenIdle]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

And is she even as religious as she makes it out to be? Didn't she let it slip in the PopJustice interview that all religious references and imagery relating to Born This Way, implying that she would want her fans to believe in God, were actually ironic and not meant to be taken seriously? I think she just knew what trigger words to use and Judas was, in the beginning, meant to cause controversy, but was simply turned around when it seemed like no one was here for Sacrilegiousga only three albums in.

I think it goes Poker Face > Bad Romance > ... > Just Dance > Born This Way.

Just Dance did really well in the US (6.5 millions downloads, Bad Romance has 5+ millions and Born This Way has 3.5 millions) but it did not smash everywhere like Bad Romance - especially in Europe, like in France for example. And if we're talking cultural impact then the gap between Bad Romance and Just Dance is even bigger.

Born This Way did very well, but it did not have the same longevity as the other hits mentioned here, went #1 in a lot of countries etc. but i think the digital sales in the US speak for themselves. They were very front loaded too.

I'm talking about her sales and overall radio play, mostly in the US. Born This Way is closer to her most-known hits than the rest of her singles. It's easily "a Gaga classic" just as is Poker Face.

 

[Chris_P]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

The Illuminati trend reached its peak with Judas.

 

[Vashetti]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

I think the campaign would have a lot smoother in the UK if Born This Way (single) went to #1.

She doomed herself.

Had she released it on a Monday instead of a Friday she would have had the #1 in the bag.

The campaign had to then work off of the fact she'd claimed that BTW was to be a "cultural baptism" and yet hadn't topped the charts after her continual hyping of the song and her previous #1s.

The British Public doubted her and therefore her music.

Judas was rush-released for some unknown reason and that disappeared very quickly.

With Edge Of Glory to follow even quicker when they realised that Judas wasn't doing anything.

 

[IMHO]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

Ah, the 'Where did the Born This Way era go awry' analysis, I'm not going to pretend like I'm above it!

Basically, Born This Way wasn't quite the campaign-launching straight-up megahit a la Just Dance or Bad Romance, what with its soundalike controversy and more divisive message/imagery. Still a huge hit and could easily have been a California Gurls of the era; a big, dumb, attention-grabbing staight-up pop single, not necessarily indictive of its parent album's sound. The Edge of Glory was probably her best attempt at a Teenage Dream, that classy, radio-friendly love song with broad appeal. Had it been paired with the right visuals and some key promo opportunities, it would have laid solid foundations for the whole campaign ahead. Even with its sticky release schedule and disappointing video it still managed to chart highly on sales and radio play in the US and UK, so just imagine how much better it could have done had more care been taken with it.

Unfortunately, after Born This Way the single, Gaga thought people want reassurance that the album had another Bad Romance on it, so she wrote a song to exactly that specification, much to its detriment. Add in a less-than-ideal release date, a phoned-in religious non-controversy and its generally radio-unfriendly nature, and it was never going to be a song to launch the album off of.

From that stumble onwards the era just failed to truly find its feet, The Edge was almost lost in the post-Judas damage limitation shuffle; You and I did nothing for the album in Europe and killed the momentum along the way; and by that point Marry The Night was just too late to the party, especially with a 15-minute self-indulgent video in tow. Add to that the fact that the tour was so delayed, drawing a dead campaign out even further, and the whole thing has been left to go out with a whimper, despite starting out with quite a defiant roar.

In summary: IT WAS JUDAS' FAULT, her first true flop. Express Yourself-gate or even Alejandro's snoozefest video were not insurmountable obstacles, the album's success despite faults in promotion show that there was a huge demand for Gaga, but Judas' underperformance threw things off track and Born This Way never fully regained its composure.

 

[Hags]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

Got nothing to add to this discussion than I'm going to buy this album. If I keep telling myself "Nothing can be worse than Born This Way" then I can get excited about it.

 

[StillCool]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

Regarding the Judas video, I am 100% certain there was supposed to be a Judas-Jesus kiss. I remember Norman Reedus discussing it then saying the lipstick gun came out instead. And I'm sure Gibson's responsible for that change considering all the nonsense she said around the time Nd her subsequent meltdown and demise.

On The Edge of Glory video: I'm so glad the mermaid was dropped. It would have ruined the song. Some nonsense about a mermaid being chased or whatever would have melted any sentiment the song had in it. I completely see what Gaga wanted for that, a stripped back, emotional video.

You and I almost killed my love for her. That video was an artless wreck. I remember how I felt when she released that - I was horrified and stunned she had fallen so far.

Then came Marry The Night and I was hooked. It still kills me that the video is looked down upon and the the song crashed and burned.

 

[vasilios]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

Everything went wrong the moment Gaga got scared of becoming too pop (the horror!) and too pretty to be credible.

 

[Chris_P]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

The video for You and I is way too much, but it still was wonderful! It was Tim Burton-esque, in a horrifically realistic/worryingly surrealistic way.

 

[LJB]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

I don't think she reveled in any attempt at legitimate "controversy" seeing as the video turned out to be just as campy and an exercise in kitsch as the song itself. In retrospect, the whole "LET THE CULTURAL BAPTISM BEGIN" business was really just done with one eye closed and her tongue firmly on her cheek.

Well, the whole thing was a (very Madonna-esque) 'let's throw around nonsense, camp religious iconography to make it look like this shit has some substance' affair and in Judas' case it worked - people seemed to believe it was controversial.

 

[IMHO]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

Everything went wrong the moment Gaga got scared of becoming too pop (the horror!) and too pretty to be credible.

I don't think she was afraid of being 'too pop' because she still celebrated the genre with Born This Way's "super-sugary" sound (her words) and choreography-heavy performaces like The Grammys. I do, however, think she became concerned with becoming too 'disosable' or lacking in substance, which isn't a bad thing in an era of braindead LOLpop ruling the charts, but it meant that everything had to have a long-winded psuedo-metaphorical interpretation attached to it, as well as a lecture in self-esteem and being a good person. It's as if she became a little embarassed of being the 'Just dance, dada-doot-doo' girl because she wasn't make "a difference" and Born This Way was her personal, one-woman social rights movement. Pop can have substance without it being rammed down or throats or dumbed down to LMFAO levels of banality,

I do agree about being too pretty though, as shallow as it sounds, it wouldn't have killed her to draw some eyebrows on from time to time to entice the casual buyer!

 

[Someboy]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

If we want to blame the campaign's failures on Judas then so be it, as long as everyone realizes if it were still sitting on the album without the single treatment people would incessantly talk about how it's a smash and she was an idiot to not release it.

 

[Babylon]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

I completely see what Gaga wanted for that, a stripped back, emotional video.

The problem is that it was a rush-job after scrapping the original footage.

The concept was fine, the dancing was great, the colours were gorgeous. The direction was shoddy.

 

[xOJakeXo]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

If we want to blame the campaign's failures on Judas then so be it, as long as everyone realizes if it were still sitting on the album without the single treatment people would incessantly talk about how it's a smash and she was an idiot to not release it.

Exactly what I kept thinking reading all the "Judas killed it" arguments. I think single choices played a part into why Born This Way wasn't the gigantic, long-term smash everyone was hoping for, but I think it's more so the inevitable and very public backlash against Lady Gaga the public figure, which had been brewing long before Born This Way the song was even released. That combined with the Express Yourself drama doomed the campaign, in my opinion.

 

[Someboy]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

I think what derailed the Born This Way campaign is she didn't have five Billboard number one singles, which if you don't do these days then something has gone horribly wrong.

 

[Chris_P]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

The problem is that it was a rush-job after scrapping the original footage.

The concept was fine, the dancing was great, the colours were gorgeous. The direction was shoddy.

Even a different edit that adds a bit of narrative would be better. It was a horrible execution. I disagree the "dancing" can be considered great.
The setting and the outfit are great. Her changing looks by throwing away her shirt and her hat were such sad moments. Needless and poorly executed. All that footage must have been one take.

 

[IMHO]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

If we want to blame the campaign's failures on Judas then so be it, as long as everyone realizes if it were still sitting on the album without the single treatment people would incessantly talk about how it's a smash and she was an idiot to not release it.

I think Scheiße has always been the 'Shoulda, coulda, woulda' track when it comes to Born This Way. It not only fits the bill better as a calculated Bad Romance sequel but it's also simply superior on its own merits. People would have been iffy on Judas' chorus regardless of whether it had gotten a release or not but I do think it would be generally viewed in a more preferable light as an album track, rather than being rush-released as something so cynically derivative of one of her biggest hits in an attempt to give the campaign a shot in the arm.

That's not to say that Scheiße should have been the second single either, because it's not about throwing Judas under the bus because it underperformed. Regardless of its objective quality as a song/single, commercially it just wasn't the right time for anything that noisy or less-than-universally-acclaimed, which is why The Edge of Glory (or perhaps Marry The Night, at a push) should have been single #2.

 

[Mixael]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

I wonder if 'Hair' would work better instead of 'Judas'. It sounds more original plus it would make more sense lyrically as a follow-up to the lead single.