Lady Gaga

[Drew]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

Thanks. I don't think I have any hate for her based on that, actually. I think she was trying to be post-homophobia, use the word in a new context. It wasn't going to work, but I don't see any homophobia in it. Nuance! It's all in the details, I think.

So any guy that has feminine qualities its ok to call them a faggot now? Cuz its Post Homophobia! OK!!


If Chris Brown said this would you still have the same opinion?

 

[StillCool]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

So any guy that has feminine qualities its ok to call them a faggot now? Cuz its Post Homophobia! OK!!


If Chris Brown said this would you still have the same opinion?

No, which is why I said it's all about nuance and details. There's absolutely no reason to believe she dislikes gay people or homosexuality (in fact quite the opposite, no?). She's clearly tried to use the word in a redefined way. If you want to get pissy at her for attacking feminine guys, feel free, but attacking feminine guys does not equate to attacking gay guys. So your problem can only be with the word 'faggot' being used. And if you accept her explanation of why she used it, that is to attack feminine men and not gay men, then you are getting pissed off at the simple usage of a word.

 

[Square]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

Thanks. I don't think I have any hate for her based on that, actually. I think she was trying to be post-homophobia, use the word in a new context. It wasn't going to work, but I don't see any homophobia in it. Nuance! It's all in the details, I think.

"Post-homophobia"

Oh my god.

 

[StillCool]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

"Post-homophobia"

Oh my god.

I don't know how to reply to that, because you've just quoted what I said and reacted with an aghast expression. If you can maybe expand, the conversation could flow a bit better.

 

[Drew]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

No, which is why I said it's all about nuance and details. She's clearly tried to use the word in a redefined way. If you want to get pissy at her for attacking feminine guys, feel free, but attacking feminine guys does not equate to attacking gay guys. So your probably can only be with the word 'faggot' being used. And if you accept her explanation of why she used it, that is to attack feminine men and not gay men, then you are getting pissed off at the simple usage of a word.

She's not using the word in a redefined way. She's using to describe gay men who are feminine. That is how the word faggot has always been used.

Any gay man who defends her using this word is an asshole in my book. If a straight male singer wrote this exact same tweet there would be no ridiculous "he's trying to redefine the word!" posts. You would recognize him for what he is- an ignorant asshole.

 

[MisterNovem]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

The thing is, who is she to redefine that word?

 

[StillCool]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

She's not using the word in a redefined way. She's using to describe gay men who are feminine. That is how the word faggot has always been used.

But she's not, is she? She's using it to describe a feminine man, and saying this 'faggot' word denotes an insult because he's feminine. She's very explicit that she doesn't use the word in a way which she means to refer to gay people. Which is not how the word has always been used at all. I think she tried to revise the meaning of the word, if you believe her. Or you think she's lying, and meant the word in it's traditional sense. But again, if you accept her explanation, she was not using the word as an insult toward homosexuals, but feminine men. The fact that Hilton is gay is irrelevant.

Also, I deplore reactionary hysterias, so if a straight male singer had said it, I'd happily examine the context and motivations before reaching a conclusion. Homophobia, sexism, racism, etc, are all so serious accusations, that I'd rather be beyond a doubt as to whether it really exists in a situation before flinging it out there.

The thing is, who is she to redefine that word?

I think that's a fair point, MisterNovem, a point I'd disagree with, but to proceed on that ground, do you agree with me that she wasn't using it in at least the traditionally homophobic sense?

 

[Dennis]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

Is Perez Hilton feminine? Is this transphobia? I'm so confused.

 

[Drew]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

But she's not, is she? She's using it to describe a feminine man, and saying this 'faggot' word denotes an insult because he's feminine. She's very explicit that she doesn't use the word in a way which she means to refer to gay people. Which is not how the word has always been used at all. I think she tried to revise the meaning of the word, if you believe her. Or you think she's lying, and meant the word in it's traditional sense. But again, if you accept her explanation, she was not using the word as an insult toward homosexuals, but feminine men. The fact that Hilton is gay is irrelevant.
\?

You would maybe (and even then its stretch) have some sort of point if she had, say, sent that tweet to a straight man. But is that what she did? No. She chose to use a derogatory word for gay men and sent it to a gay man. She didn't "redefine" it in any way.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

I thus declare a fatwa on this awful conversation about "post-homophobia"

If that's aimed at me, it's not the quality of the song the title 'Burqa' makes me concerned about.

Let's predict the lyrics. Given the cultural sensitivity Gaga has shown in the past when dealing with any kind of risque issue, I imagine the chorus will be something along the lines of:





What could possibly go wrong?

That's amazing. Especially the "I thus declare a fatwa on the dance floor!" line. Oh god.

She's treading dangerous waters with this Burqa... I hope she can pull it off without looking like an idiot.

You just know that's what it would end up like, though...and then she'd give a 28 minute long explanation about why it's completely inoffensive and extremely profound. And we can't forget the 12 minute music video of her dressed as Nosferatu in the Amazon to represent fuck all.

You're killing me.

Lady Gaga ‏@ladygaga
If only Fame came in IV form could I bare being away from you. I live for the way that you cheer and scream for me. The Applause.

"The Applause". Song title?

Messiah Complex is a more fitting title.

 

[StillCool]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

You would maybe (and even then its stretch) have some sort of point if she had, say, sent that tweet to a straight man. But is that what she did? No. She chose to use a derogatory word for gay men and sent it to a gay man. She didn't "redefine" it in any way.

Well she didn't use it as a slur against gay men. That was how she explained it. She said it means feminine men not gay men or something. That's what she said. You need to choose to either accept that or decide she's lying, and meant it as an insult toward gay people. It reminds me of that time on Big Brother years ago, one of the white house mates called a black house mate 'nigger' in the redefined way and things got crazy.

 

[MisterNovem]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

I think that's a fair point, MisterNovem, a point I'd disagree with, but to proceed on that ground, do you agree with me that she wasn't using it in at least the traditionally homophobic sense?

No I believe she is using it exactly how high school boys everywhere have been using it for decades. And when they get in trouble for using it, they use the same excuse. "It doesn't mean gay! It means stupid!" or something similar. And her "redefined" version is just as offensive either way you spin it. I don't think she is inherently homophobic but she used an offensive homophobic slur and that's not ok.

 

[HYSTERIA]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

Even if she's not being homophobic she's saying that being feminine is a negative quality.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

Well she didn't use it as a slur against gay men. That was how she explained it. She said it means feminine men not gay men or something. That's what she said. You need to choose to either accept that or decide she's lying, and meant it as an insult toward gay people. It reminds me of that time on Big Brother years ago, one of the white house mates called a black house mate 'nigger' in the redefined way and things got crazy.

There is no redefined way to say faggot/nigger. They are foul words that don't need to be in anyone's vocabulary, pre or post homophobia/racism (what the hell is that even supposed to mean??). Words have societal context that can't be changed on the whim of a single person. Calling someone a faggot is an offensive insult, whether Azealia means "feminine man" (so it's wrong to be a feminine man?) or "gay man", she was obviously using it to insult someone. Also even if she wanted to ~redefine~ the word, it still carries previous definitions and isn't suddenly devoid of any other meaning (and who is to say whoever was on the receiving end of that word doesn't carry their own definition/context of said word?). Etc etc.

I don't think she is homophobic but has a vile vocabulary and a quick tongue, and the word 'faggot' is obviously a homophobic insult. And honestly her "post-homophobia redefinition" is probably even worse.

 

[StillCool]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

I just spent a considerable amount of time precisely wording a really detailed explanation of what I meant and my logic behind my conclusions and Pop Justice killed it. Sorry, I can't do that again. It was a work of rhetorical genius.

To summarise: she isn't... I just can't. That took me ages to write. I'm a bit heart broken.

 

[Rommers]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

She's redefining the use of a gay slur... by using it as a slur against a gay man. What a free-thinking radical.

 

[StillCool]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

She's redefining the use of a gay slur... by using it as a slur against a gay man. What a free-thinking radical.

I really hate how he has to be a gay man instead of a man who is gay. If you accept her explanation, his sexuality had nothing to do with what she said.

 

[Rommers]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

I really hate how he has to be a gay man instead of a man who is gay. If you accept her explanation, his sexuality had nothing to do with what she said.

Haha. Okay... guess I'm homophobic, I'll go ask Azealia to tutor me in the ways of post-homophobia.

So... it's bad to refer to a 'man who is gay' as 'a gay man'... but it's totally cool to call him a faggot as an insult? Is that right?

 

[Dennis]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

"Does your butthole whistle? Like is your butthole so stretched and raggedy the air whistles when you move?"

Did she contextualise that one yet?

 

[heyho]

Re: Lady Gaga - ARTPOP (Album, 2013)

"Does your butthole whistle? Like is your butthole so stretched and raggedy the air whistles when you move?"

Did she contextualise that one yet?

She's poking fun at people with Megacolon, not gay men!!!! (or men who just happen to be gay, sorry)

Gosh are people dense or something