LGBTQIA+ | Page 870 | The Popjustice Forum


Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Babylon, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. I used to have similar ‘meh’ feelings when u was in my teens and early twenties. After I got HIV I started to read a lot about the HIV/AIDS crisis and the aftermath, as well as the years before it.

    I became proud of being a gay man then because I realized that ultimately we are all products of those who came before us in a way that heterosexuals just aren’t. In living memory, countless LGBT+ people just like us put their lives (reputations, careers, family and friends) on the line, and in a lot of cases gave their lives, to the cause of equality that they wouldn’t ever get to live and experience with us. I think to not feel pride is to not feel grateful and respectful to the work that they did, and frankly being ambivalent is a privilege that can be felt because of them.

    That’s just my hot take anyway.
  2. I think there is pride in brushing off the jokes, the slurs, the side-eyes, the rumours, the threats, the fear, the uncertainty and the shame and living your most authentic life.
  3. londonrain

    londonrain Staff Member

    Also, you can be proud of your inherent qualities without having done anything to create those qualities.

    I’ve learned to be proud of my dark skin. Why? Because society overtly and covertly continually sends signals that darker skin is less attractive and less worthy, and so me learning to celebrate and love it is how I manifest my pride in it. It doesn’t work if you say you’re proud of your white skin because society already privileges that. You don’t have to put in any work to know that it’s attractive and worthy.

    Similarly, with being gay, I didn’t do anything to make myself gay but I can love and celebrate that aspect of myself to counter society’s messaging, which always tends to favour dominant sections of society. You can be proud of being a woman for the same reason.

    Being proud is your counterbalance to the negative attitudes in the world, and is recognition of the work you put in to affirm and love yourself.
  4. Mr.Arroz

    Mr.Arroz Staff Member

    I think that there also might be the possibility of people misconstruing the difference between being "proud" versus being "prideful". Those are two very significantly divergent experiences, but the line between them can be hard to distinguish without analyzing their differences.

    Being "proud", in my eyes, is reflecting on things within your identity that may be deemed socially unacceptable, at least by contemporary or historical cues, and for you as a person to demonstrate self-appreciation and a desire to exist, despite those cues. Being "prideful", is leading yourself by a sense of pride, which in many ways can manifest as hubris, arrogance, or even cockiness. I have met many a queer person that in my belief intertwines their sense of privilege with a subsequent sense of pridefulness, and those two together are generally unpleasant.

    I think especially in an atmosphere of color, privilege, disenfranchisement, class, and ability, being proud/carrying pride needs to account for how those former ideas are present within an individual's life. My reasons for being proud of myself/those like me come from an analysis of all of those factors. It's not simply a matter of coincidentally being based in a country which affords certain "expected" reasons to carry pride for oneself.
  5. Yeah I think for me it isn't so much being proud of being gay, because that's just a part of who I am. I was born that way and that's that and I can't change it, just like I was born with blue eyes etc. I always say to people who talk about being gay meaning x,y,z, that for me being gay just means I'm attracted to the same sex and nothing more, usually because beyond that a lot of stereotyping happens and I'm not here for that.


    I can say I'm proud of who I am because of how I've become the person I am and a lot of that has to do with the fact I am gay. Having to learn to understand, love, and accept yourself has made me a more open minded, understanding of others around me, especially people who are different to me whether that be sexuality, race, gender and so on.
    hologram, Sam, Connor Walsh and 5 others like this.
  6. I will say my boyfriend has made the suggestion of us exploring an open relationship once we’re out of quarantine, and it’s an idea that I’m still getting used to, still have concerns about, and has me worried it’s a sign we should call it quits. That said, the fact that we’re having an open dialogue about the whole thing while seeing something like this get published reassures me my relationship probably couldn’t be stronger.
  7. @londonrain & @Mr.Arroz thank you both for continuing to provoke and challenge me. This forum could absolutely run a masterclass.

    I thought a lot about this today as I have always felt uneasy about my own uneasiness with the idea of pride. Ultimately I don't feel I have contributed to the cause at all, other than living a happy, out life.... which doesn't seem like much for a cis white man... so I've always felt that pride is not mine to have (for myself). However, I do feel proud of my background (a first generation immigrant, raised on benefits, etc) and the more or less contented life I have as an adult, which is definitely sweeter having done/lived it as a happy gay man.
    Grins, Sam, Island and 6 others like this.
  8. It's not pride of... loving dick or Madonna or pink stuff (though all these things are great). It's being proud of being you despite society telling you otherwise, being proud of who you are and not hiding to please others, it's pride in thinking you're perfect and there's nothing wrong with you despite school, family, others telling you you're less than etc.
  9. Honestly, just the fact you're still alive and happy is enough for you to have personal pride in, regardless of what you're managing to do in terms of activism or not. As someone said in previous pages, many of us never made it through the 80s and many of us still never make it out of our teens.
    OspreyQueen, Mr Blonde, Grins and 8 others like this.
  10. This thread reminds me that something I am VERY into is intelligence. I won't bother @ing the 2 users I'm talking about, they know who they are ddd.
  11. This pretty much sums it up for me. I know it's not the correct or exact antonym of shame, but that's how I designate it in terms of sexuality.

    People (gays included) have said to me before that you can't be proud of something you didn't 'achieve', but by living with those negative elements of societal judgement, we're achieving all the damn time.
    OspreyQueen, Overdose, Grins and 8 others like this.
  12. I think many have said what I would say but much better but I just want to acknowledge that asking this question and listening to the responses with an open mind takes a lot of bravery. Like others have explained, our pride exists in response to society's desire for us to not exist. One facet of that is silencing us and suffocating us with internal confusion. It's why we lose so many of us to suicide and mental illness. Taking the step to ask questions that feel "quite personal" and finding a space of people like you actively works against that. So thanks for prompting this cause I'm sure there are other members who benefited from the conversation you prompted
  13. That's very nice of you to say, thank you. It's actually comforting to know that this is a safe space. Thanks to everyone who took time to share their thoughts. With it, you brought me seeds ready to germinate, giving me a whole new perspective on this subject, I truly appreciate that.
    Grins, Sam, Crisp X and 9 others like this.
  14. Glad to see the agenda is alive and well:
  15. Mr.Arroz

    Mr.Arroz Staff Member

    Excuse me?
  16. Confused.
    Music Is Death likes this.
    papatrick, 4Roses, Verandi and 4 others like this.
  18. You’re excused. I am gay. It’s a joke.
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
    Music Is Death likes this.
  19. When a guy who lives in another state asked if I wanted to date him, I told him I don't really do long distance, and he said "bitch fuck off" and blocked me.
    Fine then. I don't want to date you anyway if you're not going to even ask why or even try to understand.
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