Madonna - General Discussion | Page 3323 | The Popjustice Forum

Madonna - General Discussion

Discussion in 'Pop & Justice' started by debord, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. My only ""problem"" with Madonna is how her rich white lady-isms can trip her approach to political/social issues. However she has a genuine heart of gold and has proven herself over and over to be incredibly empathetic and willing to listen.

    Yes, she had a milk bath in a marble tub and mused about Covid, The Great Equalizer, but she didn't get on camera with bad hair to belt out Imagine in an effort to heal the world soooo.
     
    fancygreen, K94, 4Roses and 18 others like this.
  2. Ok I’ll admit she has good hair here:

     
    neinzedd and ohaimanabu like this.
  3. She looks like an Emmerdale character with that hair ff. Kind of miss British-donna.
     
  4. I know I'm probably the only one who even wants to talk about this any more, but the Pitchfork review of Madame X, to me, exposed a problem with music criticism. I feel like many critics want pop music to fit very tightly into a pop music box. Cultural appropriation criticism is fair (though I'd rather it not come from music journalists who are not even part of said cultures), though the review was arguing in bad faith. But there was a subtle undercurrent of, "Just make bops, woman!" in it. The reviewer's rants about how Madonna sucks because she can't just make pure pop music like Mariah further confirmed this. Female pop artists are not afforded the artistic space to get artistically messy. Everything must fall into the hallmarks of the genre. They are boxed in. Female indie artists are given more leeway (and male male indie artists are given all the leeway). Pitchfork tripped over themselves to give an unconventional album like Fetch The Bolt Cutters a perfect score. To be clear, Fetch the Bolt Cutters is a better and more accomplished work than Madame X (and also much more unconventional) and is deserving of all the acclaim it got, but my point is that the expectations people have for both artist play an integral role.

    I suspected that the guy who reviewed Madame X knew this because while there was that implication that Madonna just needs to make regular pop music (which is stated explicitly in his prior rants), he also argued that Madonna's reading of world genres is "overly literal." Which is just not true. Madonna's takes on world music are scrambled, distorted, and heavily remixed. This is not arguable. How many people have complained about the supposedly cyborg vocals in Batuka? How many people have complained that Medellin's various parts seem disconnected? But he has to make that argument in order to justify the magazine's expectation of pop artists needing to artistically behave. He wants her to just "stay in your lane" but he also doesn't want to admit she's artistically adventurous, so he willfully misinterprets her approach to world genres in order to avoid cognitive dissonance. "I have a problem with her artistic adventurousness, but that makes her look good so lemme just say she's actually making basic music." It's so disingenuous. His comparison of her work to putting on clothes that she's going to just throw away and never wear again is pretty much just him not wanting to commend her creative restlessness.

    And yes, we can just chalk it up to a reviewer with a grudge, but this shit happens to Gaga, whose music is admittedly not as avant-garde as some of Madonna's more extreme experiments but the dynamic is still the same. Remember when she released Born This Way and it didn't get the critical respect it deserved and critics tried to act like it was pretentious to avoid admitting that it was doing stuff that was simply beyond the bulk Gaga's contemporaries? (I remained shocked by how mediocre Born This Way's reviews are relative to its quality). But then she releases Chromatica and the critical respect is more easily earned? This is not a knock on Chromatica. I see why people like it and I've come to enjoy it myself. But Chromatica almost certainly benefited from a sense that Gaga was artistically behaving. That she's providing the bops we always wanted! Whereas Born This Way was "excessive" and "pretentious." Or then there's also the move critics make (similar to the idea that Madame X is a literal reading of world genres) where they pretended that Born This Way is more ordinary that Gaga thinks. She actually just making basic bops beneath all the excess! It's pure bullshit designed to keep pop women from going creatively above and beyond.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
    fancygreen, Cutlery, acl and 11 others like this.
  5. Madonna's cover of Imagine is pretty bad. Her singing is okay but her interpretation is so flat.

    It's a pretty overrated song in general though.
     
  6. The Pitchfork "review" ending with "aren't we all getting a little too old for this?" says it all to be honest. Miss Juz really thought she did something
     
    fancygreen, acl, Mr.Arroz and 9 others like this.
  7. Imagine is on a list of 'songs that objectively aren't bad but you never need to hear again' along with

    Bohemian Rhapsody
    Proud Mary
    I will always love you
     
    heartmightmelt and Raichu like this.
  8. I would take "I will always love you" (I live for the vocal build up and cathartic release in that song) off the list, but other that, agreed.
     
    letuinmybackdoor likes this.
  9. The amount of people who had a problem with Madonna being in her sixties and… wearing an eyepatch, while no one bats an eye when the Mick Jaggers of the world still tour the planet in their 130’s doing the chicken dance.
     
    cakeboy, Womanizer, acl and 5 others like this.
  10. The cultural double standards are genuinely vomit-inducing. It's gross how people just cannot stop themselves from needing to control women.
     
    Applause likes this.
  11. Did I write an entire English coursework essay about this exact comparison a few months ago?

    upload_2021-6-14_18-7-34.gif
     
    neinzedd, Overdose, Leis and 2 others like this.
  12. Great minds!
     
    joeee likes this.
  13. matthew.

    matthew. Staff Member

    Did I join Pitchfork Insider for the sole purpose of every time they send out an email asking for our input on the website to tell them to remove and reissue a Madame X review not written by an ageist pig?

    Yes.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
  14. I forgot about her bizarre cameo in Spike Lee's Girl 6. She looks amazing at least, imagine her doing this AND Evita in the same theatrical year. Other actresses simply don't have the range.

     
  15. + if you work in a bar you can add to that list any song that is 5 minutes or longer that guarantee a full dance floor for all of it, because the DJ will use that to go for either a smoke or a shit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
    neinzedd and letuinmybackdoor like this.
  16. [​IMG]
     
    Faceintheleaves, Raichu and matthew. like this.
  17. depends if @Jamie staying nearby
     
    lushLuck and Jamie like this.
  18. She looks so good in this and the quality is fantastic. Love it.
     
    Andy French and Coolrockgirl like this.
  19. the Pitchfork review should not be taken seriously, the reviewer is a notorious Madonna hater, writing article after article specifically attacking her and everything about her. He’s also a notorious Mariah stan, apparently threatened by other artists or great magnitude, longevity and influence. The choice of Pitchfork to ask him of all people to review a Madonna album, any Madonna album, was questionable to begin with. Not a single word in that review has any validity! His opinion was colored and tainted from the get go!
     
    LOTF and Raichu like this.
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