Madonna - General Discussion | Page 3686 | The Popjustice Forum

Madonna - General Discussion

Discussion in 'Pop & Justice' started by debord, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. Well, oooh lar lar!
    That must have been cool!
     
  2. Can we talk about Waiting (Remix)?

    Apart from the new production and rap feature I think I can hear some new Madonna vocals? Could they be leftovers from the original sessions?



    I am really curious about this Rain single period... a late Erotica single that across territories featured a Rain radio remix, that sultry Fever video remix, the very house Up Down Suite and this hip-hop tinged remix of Waiting.

    Considering Bedtime Stories was the album that came next, maybe this single allowed Madonna to experiment a little with new styles and gather some fan feedback?
     
  3. Love, love, love Rain.

    The album version is clearly superior and that middle 8 is one of her finest--when that lawnmower sound kicks in... the video is also all kinds of wonderful.

    The wealth of remixes, outtakes, and extras around this period is what has me salivating for the Erotica reissue.
     
    IEngineered, Aiden, AbSynth and 9 others like this.
  4. The fact that one of her most mature, poetic and artistic songs was released during an era where everyone thought she was some sexual deviant and tramp is so ironic and funny. Good ol' GP always having their blinders on.
     
    IEngineered, Chezam, Raichu and 6 others like this.
  5. Oh this is what she was talking about on TikTok dd. Looks good!
     
  6. Ciao Bella would have been a messy closing tracking IMO but I've never found the song to be as interesting as most of you do. It's a cute diversion with some pretty M vocals but she feels like such a featuring artist on it that it would play pretty strangely as a closing track.

    Although I used to drag it, Funana has really shown itself to be the strongest of the bonus cuts (Ciao Bella feels like more of a chore than it should and Back That Up To The Beat is a bunch of cool production and not much else). With a better vocal treatment (and maybe another take; she sounds a bit bored), I'd actually prefer it to be on the standard over Bitch, I'm Loca, which is the weakest track for me. It's a good song. I've even come to like the lyrics, which seemed lazy at first but now seem endearingly simple. And I adore the James Brown sample and the overall sonic landscape of it. Lots of creativity in the production. It just needs a better vocal to really sell itself.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2022
  7. I think “Ciao Bella” is a perfect closer. And Madonna seems to agree seeing as she used it for the closing credits in the Madame X film – taste! Her taking a step back to allow Kimi Djabaté to take over feels like a perfect example of how she was guided by these artists in an unfamiliar place. Sums the album and its mission up very nicely.
     
    LPT, joe_alouder, Mr Blonde and 8 others like this.
  8. Funana...that song always breaks my heart. There's so much melancholy in it, but it's also strangely uplifting, too.
     
    Mr.Arroz, LPT, Mr Blonde and 3 others like this.
  9. I burst into tears listening to “Funana” during a road trip, literally out of nowhere dd. It’s kind of heartbreaking when you think about not just the deaths, but how Madonna said she has survivor’s guilt surrounding them. It’s such a nice way to pay tribute.
     
    Mr Blonde, Stopremix, JMRGBY and 3 others like this.
  10. This is a good and interesting point, but I think Ciao Bella makes sense as a closer more in theory than practice. She was guided by these artists in an unfamiliar place, as you say, but Madame X is still very much the Madonna show. And as much as I love the record, its overall ethos can still can feel quite appropriative (and a track like Killers Who Are Partying being so central to the project just cements that to me; the interpretation of Madame X as taking a step back is not incorrect but it's way more complicated than that IMO. She even seems to know this on some level, hence the words "Extreme Occident" being the title of a song that its quite literally using the morna and tablas soundscape to shine more light on the Madonna journey). To me, it's maybe a good closer in a spiritual sense, but not necessarily a good sonic fit. I suppose the fact that I don't like the song that much has a lot to do with my opinion, but I also don't think it particularly fits the sonic palette of the record, which is possibly one reason it wasn't included on the album proper. The production sounds good but kind of dated to me, almost like it's going for 90s Seal or something, whereas the rest of the album sounds more cutting edge.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2022
  11. The rest of the album as in the first half, yes. But the second half (specifically the last three songs) very much settles into something more traditional and adult contemporary, so it fits in perfectly, really.
     
    electrosamurai likes this.
  12. Yeah, I can see that. I suppose you could make a similar "this sounds pretty 90s/not that much like that rest of the record" argument for "I Don't Search I Find." Even moreso as has no "world" elements (I hate that term, but I'm too mentally tired right now to reach for a better one). But that song is just so strong that I really couldn't do without it. And I suppose Madame X, while more sonically cohesive than Rebel Heart, is enough of a sonic buffet that venturing a bit out of the central sonic pallete is not a stretch.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2022
  13. I adore Funana. So deceptively moving.
     
  14. I think the "how appropriative is Madame X and how much does it matter?" is still an interesting question. The "I'm just bringing all this music into the spotlight" angle that she pushed feels true and disingenuous at the same time. There's no doubt it's all very tastefully done, but Madonna's persona just exerts so much pressure on everything she does. She does step back on occasion (we see this in Dark Ballet, Ciao Bella, Batuka to a certain extent), but she's still very much centralized and sometimes uncomfortably so.

    Far from turning me off of the album, this constant tension between appropriation and respect actually makes it that much more interesting.
     
  15. I really believe Funana and Ciao Bella were better album tracks than Loca and even Faz. Those to me sounds like cute extra tracks, also they don’t really make sense at the end of the album before the last three songs. They kill the flow.
     
    Humanracin likes this.
  16. I can see that, but Faz also feels like it's one of the tracks that "steps back," to keep using that term, and cedes artistic space to others (as much as a Madonna record feasibly can). So maybe it does have a key role despite not feeling as essential as some of the other songs.
     
  17. Very nicely put.
     
    Raichu likes this.
  18. I've been listening to a shit ton of records since my last day of teaching and the other day I gave Like A Prayer another listen. It's still one of her very best set of songs with some of her best lyrics, but how in the world does this album continually escape the "lack of sonic cohesion" complaints leveled at her more recent records? It's so sonically eclectic, running the gamut from the deep funk of Love Song to the Sgt. Pepperisms of Dear Jessie. And it easily was her most diverse lyrically up to that point. She covers many subjects on it. I mean, it manages to hang together very well, but maybe get off of Rebel Heart's ass a bit? I understand that Like A Prayer is the stronger record, particularly lyrically, but if you have a problem with Rebel Heart's variety, you probably should have the same problem with Like A Prayer's as well. But good luck trying to get her nostalgia-blinded fanbase to be consistent.
     
    Reinventor and Coolrockgirl like this.
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