Madonna: The Discography Rate - COMPLETE | Page 273 | The Popjustice Forum

Madonna: The Discography Rate - COMPLETE

Discussion in 'Charts, rates etc' started by RJF, Apr 19, 2020.

  1. RJF


    SCORE: 7.009

    11 x 1


    2015 PLACEMENT: UP 14 - 155 of 210 (6.266)
    HIGHEST SCORE: 10 x 11 (@Tigerlily @nanafan @Ana Raquel @Andy French @fatyoshi @joeee @Michael17 @Crisp X @wintersleep @Mr Blonde @Bangers&Bops)
    LOWEST SCORE: 1 x 1 (@Markus1981)
    MY SCORE: 6.5/10

    The 11/10s are really starting to fall thick and fast. I'm surprised to see my score is so low when I generally really like this, but I think that tracks that slip through the cracks like this one does do end up suffering in terms of how they're perceived. Although maybe that's not entirely true; "Goodbye To Innocence" improves on its 2015 placement by over ten places and gains nearly a full point from the voters, so I'd say that's pretty good going for a track that was buried on a random compilation CD.

    But yes, this slaps. It is a slapper; slapping is its field. Originally popping up as a deeply chopped and screwed version of itself known as "Up Down Suite" on the b-side to "Rain" (happy anniversary to that also!), the fully intact version of the track eventually surfaced on the Just Say Roe pro-choice benefit CD in 1994, a year after its dub mix self had been released. From what I can gather, this song went through a good amount of changes before Madonna eventually decided to cut it from Erotica and more or less cannibalised it for her version of "Fever", which you can kinda hear in the production. Apparently Madonna just started riffing the lyrics to "Fever" over the beat in the studio one day, decided it was better, and had the rights to the cover by the end of the day. I... can kind of hear why it was cut. The album covers a lot of the same ground but better, and spoken word verses are a little too reminiscent of "Rescue Me" to be satisfying. Still though, the verses are great, and I should have given this at least 7/10. I'm a fool.

    Now we pass over to @HEARTCORE for what might be the most interesting 11/10 choice in the rate, "This song pretty much encompasses everything I love about M." And now we take back over from @HEARTCORE.

    Here's "Up Down Suite", the dub mix of the song that was released officially through a proper Madonna release. This came on at a club I was at one time and cleared the dancefloor, but honestly, that sax and that hi-hat had me living. I can't even remember the name of the DJ, but dropping a 1993 Madonna b-side dub mix in the middle of his set might be the queerest thing I've ever seen anyone ever do, so we're gonna clap for that hooker tonight.

    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
  2. Every version of Goodbye to Innocence is a taint-destroying, world-shattering slapper. Talent!

    That opening spoken part may be among her best and most underrated lyrics.
  3. I always found Gang Bang corny and not particularly good. I don't get the praise for it at all.

    Goodbye To Innocence though?? Major.
    Bleu Noir and Maki like this.
  4. "Goodbye to Innocence" isn't really an ideal elimination a this point, but it did pretty well given it's quite a rarity and I can't complain when it basically got the exact same average score as the one I gave it.
    As for its release, it's literally what she did with "Freedom", a "Bedtime Stories" outtake, which is such a rarity that it actually doesn't appear in this rate, despite being officially released on a random compilation album. Poor it... or not (I'll do a little spotlight on it later).

    Also, I do think there are a few slightly weaker songs on "Erotica", even though "Goodbye to Innocence" would sound filler-ish had it appeared on the actual album.
    Chezam, berserkboi and Mr Blonde like this.
  5. A slapper in both this and Up N Down Suite versions. I wouldn't have minded it as a regional bonus track over Did You Do It?
  6. Goodbye to Innocence not being included on the standard edition is the definition of dumb.
  7. It should definitely have been on the album, this is out too early as it’s a banger
  8. I’m a slapper, slapping is my field.
  9. Some voters had a snake at the base of their spine, huh?

    I love Goodbye To Innocence and wish it wasn’t so obscure to find. I don’t think it fits on Erotica as is, but it’s one of her most interesting lyrical moments and the 90s-ness of it all is incredible.
    djmakemewet likes this.
  10. [​IMG]

    "...there are some who say they created me...


    ...but only my parents will have that acclaim...


    ...I took it from there, I am to blame..."

  11. Did someone say slapper?

    Euphoria, Mr Blonde, K94 and 5 others like this.
  12. Just before the release of the 'Erotica' album, Vogue magazine (US) kind of went in on "Goodbye To Innocence" at the end of their October 1992 cover story.


    "[W]hen it’s suggested that her new songs seem less introspective than Like A Prayer (which contained emotional rebukes to Sean Penn and her father), she bristles and replies that one of the songs she didn’t preview for me, “In This Life,” is about the friends she lost to AIDS. (The lyrics later provided don’t seem very profound – “Some say that life isn’t fair / I say people just don’t care / They’d rather turn the other way / While we wait for this thing to go away” – but it’s hard to judge a Madonna song without hearing her delivery.)

    She later faxes me another lyric sheet, “in case you thought it was all about seduction – an important subject, by the way, but not the only one I’m interested in… Love, Madonna.”

    The song is called “Goodbye to Innocence” (!?), and the lyric sheet misspells anonymity as “anonominity.” (Granted, it’s not a word one would expect her to use frequently.) Its key verse is “My life is not a game that I play to entertain you / And if you can do it better / Then you’re welcome to my fame / I’m not gonna waste my time correcting myths and rumors / You believe what you wanna believe / And I’ll pray to keep my sense of humor.”

    The last line seems to completely contradict the utter humorlesness of the rest. But then, that’s Madonna."

    This may account for the removal of that last line on the released version of "Goodbye To Innocence", but the mispronounced "anonominity" remains.


    Further cementing the link between "Goodbye To Innocence" and "Fever", the first release of the former was actually a strange dub remix of the latter from the promotional 12". It's called "Fever (Back To The Dub 1)" and though remixed by Murk, it uses the processed vocals later heard on Shep Pettibone's "Up Down Suite".

    The "I'll pray to keep my sense of humour" line can be heard heavily processed at 1:22...

  13. The irony of the press calling her humorless when SEX and Erotica caused news outlets the world over to lose their McFucking minds is hilarious to me
  14. RJF


    They did sis so wrong on that cover.
  15. I loved the lead-up articles to Erotica/Sex in 1992.

    The Vanity Fair article is one of my favourites. It really captures Madonna at a very specific point in her career where she is still the megastar just pre-Sex controversy, and how nervous some of her handlers (including Liz Rosenberg) were at the time.
    Music Is Death, Lila, funkyg and 5 others like this.
  16. RJF


    The funny thing about reading pre-release Erotica pieces is that it was abundantly clear that, no matter what she did, people had just decided it was Her Turn to get a rough time. Obviously what she ended up presenting probably didn't help her case either, but I think the knives were just out for the tallest poppy in the field at that point. But even then she managed a massive singles run out of it and some of her most iconic hits, and all those old men ripping her to pieces in print media while most likely being deeply attracted to her and not being able to process it are probably dead by now. Queen always wins.

    This interview is great.

  17. Thank you for posting this! So this means that that dub is based on an earlier version of Goodbye To Innocence, not the final version since that lyric is absent from it?
    I really hope someday the song gets a more wide release because it definitely deserves to be heard.

    The Rain Tapes demo also slaps
    Womanizer and Pop Life like this.
  18. I love that Jonathan Ross interview. Her comments on ageism are (unfortunately) as true now as they've ever been.
  19. Erotica was really that bitch. I need these dubs on Spotify.
    Mr Blonde likes this.
  20. Yeah the Jonathan Ross interview is really good. They even played it on Much Music here in Canada during the Erotica campaign.

    For some reason, I love how she refers to Batman Returns as "Batman 2".
    dodoriazarbon likes this.
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