Madonna: The Discography Rate - COMPLETE | Page 561 | The Popjustice Forum

Madonna: The Discography Rate - COMPLETE

Discussion in 'Charts, rates etc' started by RJF, Apr 19, 2020.

  1. RJF


    Alright: who said their safe word? Mine was "hydrangea".

    SCORE: 9.545

    11 x 8


    2015 PLACEMENT: UP 5 - 12 of 210 (9.089)
    HIGHEST SCORE: 10 x 94 (@RJF @nikkysan @Tigerlily @Vasilios @aux @Raichu @No hay banda @dodoriazarbon @eatyourself @nanafan @djmakemewet @discoteca @maverick_79 @tylerc904 @sfmartin @OSHi @2014 @Remyky22 @Cutlery @Suburbia @matthew. @soratami @GimmeWork @Endothelium @Mirwais Ahmadzaï @Andrew.L @Mjg0806 @relby @elear @paullypaul @Ana Raquel @Andy French @fatyoshi @Up Down Suite @CasperFan @torontodj @1991 @Sail On @Babylon @Syzygyz @Dreampopboy @NightmareBoy @BreatheBox @FridayNight @Daniel_O @Coochi @Hurricane Drunk @muddleddreams @scottdisick94 @Drew @Fortune @Sideout @MilesAngel @RetroPhysical @Zdarlight @joeee @Xanax @TrueBeliever @Jimmyandroid @JonBcn @Candy Perfume Girl @joe_alouder @Miss Lange @Michael17 @Mister_G @Sleepycat @phoenix123 @Pop Life @K94 @clowezra @Rogue @TheChoirgirlHotel @KingBruno @Remorque @Digital Ghost @Trinu 3.0 @LTG @RainOnFire @nametag @Markus1981 @sexercise @Mr Blonde @Music Is Death @FrozenNight @strangekin @Chezam @japanbonustrack @fancygreen @Bangers&Bops @Weslicious @Beautiful Child 2 @Touchofmyhand @Maki @beyoncésweave)
    LOWEST SCORE: 6.5 x 1 (@Phonetics Boy)
    MY SCORE: 10/10

    Girl, it was camp.

    After probably the most dramatic run for any album in the rate, Erotica leaves us as "Deeper And Deeper" discovers just how deep it can go. Still, what a showing. The album comfortably makes its way into the Top 10, with "Deeper And Deeper" climbing five spots and gaining a whopping half point on its original average. The stans turned out, it seems. I also believe that that is the biggest amount of 11/10s for a song so far. I do feel it's also worth noting that "Deeper And Deeper" was #7 from 60 voters and did not move for the rest of the rate outside of a brief jump to #6, which it fought viciously with for the majority of the vote. In fact, #6 only got half a point more in terms of scores. You can even see by the score difference between it and "Drowned World" where it's far bigger than what we've become used to in this rate. It just entrenched itself fast, and wasn't going to let anything past it.

    I'm always a bit surprised when I remember that "Deeper And Deeper" appeared to come in fits and starts in the studio, as it's easily one of the easiest, breeziest things on the album. They just couldn't seem to find their way into it easily. Shep recounts the issues in the Erotica Diaries that I linked back when the title track was eliminated:

    "Ninety-eight percent of the time, the vocals recorded in my apartment were the keeper vocals, the ones you hear on the album. It took about two or three days to write a song from beginning to end. Still, sometimes even after they were done we'd want to change the flow of the song and ask the song a few questions: Where should the chorus hit? Should it be a double chorus? Sometimes Madonna would call me in the middle of the night and say "Shep, I think the chorus should go like this," or "I hate this verse, fix the bass line." Deeper and Deeper was one of those songs she always had a problem with. The middle of the song wasn't working. We tried different bridges and changes, but nothing worked. In the end, Madonna wanted the middle of the song to have a flamenco guitar strumming big-time. I didn't like the idea of taking a Philly house song and putting La Isla Bonita in the middle of it. But that's what she wanted, so that's what she got."

    And... you can kind of see what the problem is when it gets laid out like that. "Deeper And Deeper" is long; at 5:33 it is hitting the dangly thing at the back of all our throats, and yet it always feels like it races by in an absolute rush. The way it manages to sustain momentum is actually one of the things I don't see praised enough about it; very much like its singer, it doesn't languish at the pit stop for a single second. Yes, the flamenco guitar provides a switch up, but that's really just there to assist in ramping the drama up another notch before swings back in for the last chorus and that "Vogue" interpolation. So once again, Madonna was right and a man was wrong. But Shep generally does fantastic work, so we can forgive him this time I guess. The track just puts pretty much every genre in a blender and manages to still present it sleekly. Like someone turning up for a brunch date looking immaculate when they were out until 6AM the night before getting porked. Soul, house, funk, dance, and pop, all writhing and contorting with one another in bliss.

    "Deeper And Deeper" is... nearly six minutes of total gay abandon. I mean gay as in happy, but I also mean gay as in limp-wristed, dick-in-the-ass, scissor-sistering, gender-is-a-construct, did-you-stone-those-tights fabulousness. This isn't even Popjustice hyperbole; the song feels like it's deliberately coded as queer, like someone who is on the precipice of coming to terms with who they are and is just on the verge of making the discovery of their life. It's always when I listen to this track that I remember Miss @push the button (where were your scores bitch?) telling us about the first time he ever entered a gay club in 1992, and the first song he heard was "Erotica". It was almost as if mum had been waiting for him to welcome him into this new world with open arms. And then more immediately I think about this rate, and how many people have shared stories about Madonna's music being present during massive life events, and I realise that she's just... always been there, throughout my life. Life should, and is, measured in what Madonna's hair was like at whatever period of time you're talking about. And I don't think things get any gayer than that. So whether or not the song is about being dickmatised or about someone coming to terms with their queerness, I don't know, but I choose to go for the second option. Especially considering the era it was released in, where so many people needed to hear it. Your queerness is not a disease; it is not lethal. It is colourful and vibrant and exciting and deeper than you will ever know, and a lifetime spent trying to swim to its floor is going to be amazing.

    The first 11/10 giver we're hearing from is @m_dimitrov, who basically echoes me saying the song gay-as-in-happy excellence, "this song never fails to lighten up my mood and bring me joy, I love it so much, the Vogue references at the end fit perfectly, the David's Klub Mix also deserves a mention" I'm not gonna listen that. Happy for u tho. Or sorry that happened.

    Next up is @Lila, who claims she isn't depressed. Wasn't she claiming the opposite when she was the lowest scorer for "Holiday" a few weeks ago? I sense foolery and fuckery, tbh. Let's see what she has to say for herself.

    "When I did the 00s rate in 2015, I was 19 and depressed; Intervention, my 11 then, gave me comfort and respite in some of the very worst moments of that time. When I was rating all these songs again, my immediate impulse was to go with Intervention again, but the passing of five years has left me in a very different place in my life, one that, luckily, doesn't have quite as much emotional turmoil in it.

    Deeper and Deeper is a song of pure, unbridled happiness and joy. My 2015 ended with the Rebel Heart Tour in Manchester, the first time in my life I'd ever seen M live, and of course she performed it. I cried a lot that night because oh my fucking god that's MADONNA, but the highlight of it was hearing her do this. It sounds like heaven, like the best moments of your life all rolled up into one piece of music. As I'm writing this I'm more content with myself than I have been in many years. For someone who let their father mould them, who lived with existential sorrow for a longer time than I'd like to admit, being reminded that you're alive and don't have to hide is still such an incredible thing to hear. Few popstars do real JOY like Madonna, and even she only did it once this perfectly."

    Wasn't Manchester the night where the show got cut off in half? I guess mum knew you would do "Holiday" dirty five years later.

    And finally, we close with @rdp, who basically turns me into that GIF of Elmo getting immolated by a jet engine.

    "I don’t think any other song has been as important in my life as Deeper and Deeper, and I know that sounds a bit hyperbolic, but it’s true. I was born in 1996, so most of Madonna’s work completely passed me by until I started discovering her catalogue when I was 12 or so. By then I was a really shy teenage boy living in south Brazil, starting to realize I wasn’t straight because of some poorly repressed feelings for a classmate. During most of my teenage years, I was really scared of what life being gay was going to be like because most LGBT representation on local media was quite crass. Gay people were often otherized in the country’s ‘humor’ TV programs - they harassed straight men, had weird fetishes, and generally were very surface level characters in most easily acessible media of the time. Gay sex was mostly treated as a gross joke.

    Listening to Deeper and Deeper and hearing Madonna sing about struggling with her romantic feelings was like a revelation to me. It was an essential piece of my life just when I was starting to realize that love could be seen as something beautiful and worth craving for, not something to be laughed at and joked about. The song’s climax - “this feeling inside, I can’t explain… but my love’s alive and I’m never gonna hide it again!” sounds like a battle cry and it was everything I needed to hear at that point. Even if wasn’t comfortable enough to express my feelings at that moment, things could and would get better. I stopped dreading my future and started dreaming of a point in my life where the Deeper and Deeper lyrics wouldn’t sound like a complete fantasy but a part of my reality.

    And then… well, I can’t speak for the quality of my interpersonal relationships ever since (and some days I feel I’m just going to be an old lonely gay for the rest of my life), but when I listen to Deeper and Deeper I still get that same feeling of hope that I had from when I first heard it. It makes me want to dance, sing and cry all at the same time. Even from a non sentimental stand point (if that’s possible), It’s simply one of the greatest and most euphoric songs I’ve heard in my entire life."


    The video for "Deeper And Deeper" is a totem of faggotry. The camp as fuck German man with the terrifying eyes basically chases Madonna around as her sleep paralysis demon while she... attempts to go clubbing with a set of balloons like those girls you see who have hit the club straight after a birthday dinner and still have all the shit they were given as gifts. Containing a man in his underwear being openly ogled while Madonna and friends eat bananas suggestively, Chi Chi La Rue, Joey Stefano, and Sophia Coppela (Oh, word? I only saw Lost In Translation for the first time a few weeks ago! Work.), it's considered a tribute to Andy Warhol and queerness in general. My favourite part has to be that absolutely raucous second chorus where the club is just going wild. The song was also performed during The Girlie Show, received a cabaret performance (wait no come back!!!) on Re-Invention, and even re-emerged on Rebel Heart. I have also included Shep Pettibone's twelve incher at the end for y'all to impale yourselves upon. Enjoy!

    Erotica OUT.





    Uno, evilsin, dirtypony and 75 others like this.
  2. matthew.

    matthew. Staff Member

    Honestly, outlasted my expectations and it fell just right.
  3. It had a good run, and a great song, but it probably was the right time.

    She died, Jill.
    phoenix123 likes this.
  4. No... I was really hoping that "Deeper and Deeper" was going to be the longest lasting new top 10 entry.

    Nonetheless, I'm really glad it's still considered the ultimate highlight of "Erotica" and managed to reach the top 10.
  5. Out of the possible casualties, I would like to see "Ray of Light" leave next. I'm surprised it managed to go this far, actually.
    Daniel_O likes this.
  6. 'The camp as fuck German man with the terrifying eyes basically chases Madonna around as her sleep paralysis demon...'

    That's the actor Udo Kier and he is a (gay) LEGEND
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
  7. Yes, queens! Put respect on this camp drama's name. So deserving of a rise. It goes back and forth as either my second or third favorite Madonna song ever. Depending on what's #6, I might throw hands but probably not.
  8. Iconic. Just... iconic.
  9. According to Wikipedia in Italy, Bulgaria, Finland, Hungary, Israel, Sweden and Scotland.
    2014 and MilesAngel like this.
  10. I haven’t written any commentary for my 11 yet.

    Having seen all these write-ups and moving peices of commentary, it got me thinking that... my 11 isn’t actually linked to a particularly personal/meaningful memory or event for myself, or for Madonna. And that it wasn’t part of a culturally significant moment and, as far as I’m aware, doesn’t have much of a backstory behind it either. The lyrics don’t even really mean anything special to me.

    So then I got to thinking, why is it my 11 then? What it really boils down to is that, in my 33 years on this earth, I’m not sure if I’ve ever heard another piece of music that is so intensely beautiful and elegant. Although it doesn’t say that much, it’s just something to be in awe of, and to be grateful to be in the presence of.
    Maki, Womanizer, Chezam and 2 others like this.
  11. It's worth it! That's the arrangement she performed on 'The Girlie Show', and the promotional edit was the version a lot of U.S. radio stations preferred while it was charting.

    The radio edit:

    The Klub mix:

  12. No, this is a Goddess' work.
    joeee likes this.
  13. Gonna need her to bring out the Klub Mix on the greatest hits tour.

    Chezam, Mr Blonde, discoteca and 3 others like this.

  14. In rate order, with scores:

    15. Get Together - 9.339
    18. Nothing Fails - 9.215
    19. Nothing Really Matters - 9.209

    35. Jump - 8.697
    38. American Life - 8.591

    47. Impressive Instant - 8.464 - (promotional release)

    50. Bad Girl - 8.439
    53. Ghosttown - 8.379
    53. Medellín (Feat. Maluma) - 8.379

    60. Crave (Feat. Swae Lee) - 8.252
    65. Love Profusion - 8.221
    66. Give It 2 Me - 8.185

    72. I Don't Search I Find - 8.012
    73. True Blue - 7.994
    75. Nobody Knows Me - 7.985 * - (promotional release)
    76. Living For Love - 7.976

    82. Bitch I'm Madonna (Feat. Nicki Minaj) - 7.912

    92. Causing A Commotion - 7.715
    94. Keep It Together - 7.661
    96. Angel - 7.63

    104. Bye Bye Baby - 7.515
    108. Fever - 7.464

    113. Little Star - 7.421 - (promotional release and double A-side with The Power Of Good-Bye)
    118. I Rise - 7.367

    121. Physical Attraction - 7.309 - (promotional release and double A-side with Burning Up)
    124. Dear Jessie - 7.3
    127. Where's The Party - 7.188 - (promotional release)

    134. Masterpiece - 7.091
    135. American Pie - 7.085

    140. You Must Love Me - 7.024
    144. Gambler - 6.912
    149. The Look Of Love - 6.824

    160. Spotlight - 6.694 - (released in Japan, promo in other places)

    174. Over And Over - 6.433 - (released in Italy and Philippines, promo in other places during 'You Can Dance')
    175. Another Suitcase In Another Hall - 6.409
    178. Girl Gone Wild - 6.324

    198. Give Me All Your Luvin' (Feat. Nicki Minaj & M.I.A.) - 5.921
    199. Buenos Aires - 5.894 - (promotional release)

    204. Turn Up The Radio - 5.727
    207. Hanky Panky - 5.691
    227. Hey You - 2.976

    Broken down by compilation era:


    Eligible for inclusion on 'The Immaculate Collection'

    1. Physical Attraction * (promotional release and double A-side with "Burning Up")
    2. Angel
    3. Gambler
    4. Over And Over * - (Italy and Philippines only, promo elsewhere)
    5. True Blue (appeared on the supplemental EP 'The Holiday Collection')
    6. Causing A Commotion (appeared on the supplemental EP 'The Holiday Collection')
    7. The Look Of Love
    8. Spotlight * (commercial single in Japan, promotional release in other places)
    9. Where's The Party * (promotional release)
    10. Dear Jessie
    11. Keep It Together
    12. Hanky Panky


    Eligible for inclusion on 'GHV2'

    1. Bad Girl
    2. Fever
    3. Bye Bye Baby
    4. You Must Love Me
    5. Another Suitcase In Another Hall
    6. Buenos Aires * (promotional release)
    7. Little Star * (promotional release and double A-side with "The Power Of Good-Bye" in some places)
    8. Nothing Really Matters
    9. American Pie
    10. Impressive Instant * (promotional release)


    All of the above, plus the following were eligible for inclusion on 'Celebration'

    1. American Life
    2. Nothing Fails
    3. Nobody Knows Me * (promotional release)
    4. Me Against The Music (with Britney Spears) * (not included in rate)
    5. Love Profusion
    6. Get Together
    7. Jump
    8. Hey You
    9. Give It 2 Me


    Plus, these appear only on the ballads collection 'Something To Remember' and could have been included on 'The Immaculate Collection' / 'GHV2':

    1. Love Don't Live Here Anymore - (Japan in 1986, released elsewhere from this compilation in 1996)
    2. Oh Father
    3. This Used To Be My Playground
    4. Rain
    5. I'll Remember
    6. You'll See
    7. One More Chance

    Girl needs a boxed set.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
  15. The effort! The precision! Thanks x
  16. About a year ago I was hitting the town freshly heartbroken and being an utter trainwreck & I was honestly fucking rolling but I'm PRETTY sure I heard Deeper and Deeper get played ??? Anyways, it was transcendent... or maybe it didn't happen idk. But BOP!
    evilsin, dirtypony, K94 and 27 others like this.
  17. Into the Groove coalition rise up!

    evilsin, K94, Touchofmyhand and 15 others like this.
  18. I really hope I'm top10 highest Erotica scores. I wish D&D had made it's way into top5 but it's fine. Glad it was here to represent.
  19. If Live To Tell is the soundtrack to The Closet, Deeper and Deeper is the soundtrack to when you finally feel courageous enough to say "fuck it", grab a big, sparkly, pink axe, and chop that fucker into wood chips. Like @RJF said, it is queer exuberance. It is a celebration of the act of Being, when to just Be is in itself an act of rebellion. It is John Travolta at the gym at 4am. It is unicorn-taking-a-dick-up-the-ass guh-guh-guh-GAY and a discography highlight. I'm so pleased it's made it this far.
  20. Lila

    Lila Staff Member

    Fff my GP is taking notes from this.

    In all seriousness Ms Citalopram has done me a lot of favours but I’m still haunted by too much existential dread to enjoy Holiday!
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