Madonna: The Discography Rate | Page 199 | The Popjustice Forum

Madonna: The Discography Rate

Discussion in 'Charts, rates etc' started by RJF, Apr 19, 2020.

  1. RJF

    RJF

    I mean, this kind of feels like a trap you've tried to lead the thread into somewhat, but it doesn't work. Neither song is actively malicious, but both have massive failings. "Killers..." is spectacularly tone-deaf while "I'm Going Bananas" trades on obnoxious stereotypes to no real end. The biggest difference between them is that... one sounds fucking awful in 2020, and one doesn't. We can (and currently are) discuss Madonna's privilege and ignorance in conjunction with these things. There's plenty of discourse to be had.

    And sis, you got everyone's back up over "I'm Going Bananas" mostly because of your weird ass edgelord post about putting it on at parties to piss off woke people, which to be honest I found a little out of character. I doubt people would have even had a proper issue with your 10/10 or you without that. And if you're able to acknowledge the problematic nature of "I'm Going Bananas" now, I'm not sure what stopped you from doing it when it was eliminated. This isn't the "Gotcha!" moment you seem to think it is.
     
  2. Let Down Your Guard absolutely flying up the charts, whew. Talent!

    It’s a shame the lyrics to Killers are so alarmingly obnoxious, because the song actually sounds immaculate. It feels so atmospheric.
     
  3. It was not about pissing woke people off, it was about people who really like to present themselves as woke suddenly bopping to a problematic song and not even realizing that there is anything problematic about it, that was the kii. I went to find the original post, and I guess I understand why you got the other idea, cause I did express it in a clumsy way.
    I don't understand all this unnecessary hostility ("weird ass edgelord post"... really?) though? I never really said the song wasn't problematic (I'm very open about rating all of the songs on a personal basis without any pretense at giving an objective review), and I'm surely not trying to lead the thread into a trap or have a gotcha moment. I've laid out some things I think would be an interesting (and important) conversation topic, as it easily relates to attitudes about music in general. And actually, you reducing the difference between the songs to how the songs sound in 2020 is very in line with the point I was trying to illustrate - in the end it's all heavily related to personal preference.
     
  4. RJF

    RJF

    I wasn't trying to be hostile! You know I've got no beef with you and generally appreciate your posts; I just found it a weirdly out of character post for someone who is normally more thoughtful and articulate. I do think you have a point now that you're laying it out more; there is a discussion to be had about there being... levels to these faux pas that make them easier to swallow than others, but I'm not sure I'm in a position to be the judge of those.

    Personally, I will take Madonna being tone deaf but ultimately well meaning over something that was just crass and thoughtless, but again, these aren't my concessions to make. I do think that, as fans, we know at base level Madonna is not a hateful, bigoted person, which causes us to make excuses because we know she hasn't actively intended to erase the struggles of others. What she is is a popstar in her sixties who has been famous for forty years with little to no idea of the real world and how conversations have evolved since the time she was at the forefront of them, so naturally... dealing with how she interacts with social issues these days is complicated. "I'm Going Bananas" is more explicitly offensive but also a product of its time. "Killers..." is perhaps less so but potentially more harmful in a time where everyone should know better. It's... a lose-lose situation, really.

    But again, I'm hardly in a position to be decreeing what is and what isn't acceptable, especially in terms of putting these things on a scale. My natural response is to be more forgiving of the one with good intentions rather than the one with no intentions at all, but intentions don't mean jack shit if someone is hurt regardless. Let's be glad both songs are gone!
     
  5. I can't believe how many songs have actually gone when we've barely scratched the surface!
    @RJF I'm glad you chose to keep that Rebel Heart logo/ font from the previous rate, there's always been something I love about it.
     
  6. RJF

    RJF

    Today's eliminations are going to come tonight rather than being peppered throughout the day. A wee spoiler: we actually have our first tie at No.189 rather than anything at No.190! How exciting.
     
  7. The last few eliminations have been fine but there's definitely worse left.

    It's So Cool, Supernatural, Borrowed Time, I Don't Give A, Dance 2night, Fighting Spirit, Something to Remember, Sooner or Later, Over and Over as well as the rest of the Evita tracks are the only songs left I've scored under a 5.
     
    FridayNight and Womanizer like this.
  8. I could list my highest scores and ask for those to be eliminated, maybe that would go over better for you?
     
  9. I think these are my lowest remaining scores (6 and under)

    I Know It
    Over And Over
    Love Don't Live Here Anymore
    Stay
    Sooner Or Later
    Shanti/Ashtangi (could've thrown this another half point tbf)
    Fighting Spirit
    Dance 2Night
    One More Chance

    but Borrowed Time and I Don't Give A aren't far off. Oop!
     
    1991 likes this.
  10. I was meant to include One More Chance in my original post but I agree with all of these. Though I still have quite a good chunk of songs that scored 5 and 5.5.
     
    Mirwais Ahmadzaï likes this.
  11. Shanti/Ashtangi is also one of my last remaining under 5 scores, but I’ve always been conflicted about it. I adore the production, but it’s Madonna at her most indulgent and just feeling her appropriation oats a little tew much... It could’ve been swapped out for Has To Be and would’ve made the album that much more stronger.
     
  12. Has To Be is a true gem and ranks among one of my favourites from Ray of Light now, thanks to this rate for discovering it. Hopefully we get it on streaming in the future.
     
  13. Yes let's please rip off the band-aid for a lot of voters by starting the Ray of Light eliminations with Shanti/Ashtangi.
     
  14. Let Down Your Guard is 1000% Fanmail. Spot on.
     
    Maki likes this.
  15. There's bats in my belfry

    [​IMG]
     
  16. I love Has to Be more than a couple songs on Ray of Light (her best b-side?) but don’t think it would’ve worked on the album, it leans a bit too heavily on being quite a placid mood piece and would ruin the pace. Unless it was at the end, as on the Japanese version, but Mer Girl just *has* to be the last song on the album, so.

    Echo the thoughts on Killers - I guess that even though it had obviously eyebrow-raising lyrics I couldn’t really grasp what she was trying to say, because the chorus seemed to be at odds with the verses, so I just enjoyed the music, which is pretty singular and really shone on stage.
     
    Raichu likes this.
  17. "Dance 2Night" and "Funana"...

    [​IMG]
     
    FridayNight, Chezam, Lila and 4 others like this.
  18. I think any of these may be in trouble tonight:
    Dance 2Night (seems to be loved and hated in equal measure).

    I Don’t Give A (MDNA is falling fast and if anyone heard her vocals for this in Hyde Park...)

    I Love New York (surely the first Confessions song to fall?)

    Think of Me (The First Album remains unbothered- this is surely its worst track)

    It’s So Cool (now if she’d done something like THIS at Eurovision, the audience would have loved it! Much worse than Broken, which I always lump with this one).
     
    Maki likes this.
  19. LTG

    LTG

    I could barely hear anything in Hyde Park.
     
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