Madonna

mindtrappa

mindtrappa

he/him
I think “Ciao Bella” is a perfect closer. And Madonna seems to agree seeing as she used it for the closing credits in the Madame X film – taste! Her taking a step back to allow Kimi Djabaté to take over feels like a perfect example of how she was guided by these artists in an unfamiliar place. Sums the album and its mission up very nicely.
 
Raichu

Raichu

mindtrappa said:
I think “Ciao Bella” is a perfect closer. And Madonna seems to agree seeing as she used it for the closing credits in the Madame X film – taste! Her taking a step back to allow Kimi Djabaté to take over feels like a perfect example of how she was guided by these artists in an unfamiliar place. Sums the album and its mission up very nicely.
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This is a good and interesting point, but I think Ciao Bella makes sense as a closer more in theory than practice. She was guided by these artists in an unfamiliar place, as you say, but Madame X is still very much the Madonna show. And as much as I love the record, its overall ethos can still can feel quite appropriative (and a track like Killers Who Are Partying being so central to the project just cements that to me; the interpretation of Madame X as taking a step back is not incorrect but it's way more complicated than that IMO. She even seems to know this on some level, hence the words "Extreme Occident" being the title of a song that its quite literally using the morna and tablas soundscape to shine more light on the Madonna journey). To me, it's maybe a good closer in a spiritual sense, but not necessarily a good sonic fit. I suppose the fact that I don't like the song that much has a lot to do with my opinion, but I also don't think it particularly fits the sonic palette of the record, which is possibly one reason it wasn't included on the album proper. The production sounds good but kind of dated to me, almost like it's going for 90s Seal or something, whereas the rest of the album sounds more cutting edge.
 
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mindtrappa

mindtrappa

he/him
Raichu said:
The production sounds good but kind of dated to me, almost like it's going for 90s Seal or something, whereas the rest of the album sounds more cutting edge.
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The rest of the album as in the first half, yes. But the second half (specifically the last three songs) very much settles into something more traditional and adult contemporary, so it fits in perfectly, really.
 
Raichu

Raichu

mindtrappa said:
The rest of the album as in the first half, yes. But the second half (specifically the last three songs) very much settles into something more traditional and adult contemporary, so it fits in perfectly, really.
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Yeah, I can see that. I suppose you could make a similar "this sounds pretty 90s/not that much like that rest of the record" argument for "I Don't Search I Find." Even moreso as has no "world" elements (I hate that term, but I'm too mentally tired right now to reach for a better one). But that song is just so strong that I really couldn't do without it. And I suppose Madame X, while more sonically cohesive than Rebel Heart, is enough of a sonic buffet that venturing a bit out of the central sonic pallete is not a stretch.
 
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Raichu

Raichu

I think the "how appropriative is Madame X and how much does it matter?" is still an interesting question. The "I'm just bringing all this music into the spotlight" angle that she pushed feels true and disingenuous at the same time. There's no doubt it's all very tastefully done, but Madonna's persona just exerts so much pressure on everything she does. She does step back on occasion (we see this in Dark Ballet, Ciao Bella, Batuka to a certain extent), but she's still very much centralized and sometimes uncomfortably so.

Far from turning me off of the album, this constant tension between appropriation and respect actually makes it that much more interesting.
 
electrosamurai

electrosamurai

I really believe Funana and Ciao Bella were better album tracks than Loca and even Faz. Those to me sounds like cute extra tracks, also they don’t really make sense at the end of the album before the last three songs. They kill the flow.
 
Raichu

Raichu

I can see that, but Faz also feels like it's one of the tracks that "steps back," to keep using that term, and cedes artistic space to others (as much as a Madonna record feasibly can). So maybe it does have a key role despite not feeling as essential as some of the other songs.
 
Raichu

Raichu

I've been listening to a shit ton of records since my last day of teaching and the other day I gave Like A Prayer another listen. It's still one of her very best set of songs with some of her best lyrics, but how in the world does this album continually escape the "lack of sonic cohesion" complaints leveled at her more recent records? It's so sonically eclectic, running the gamut from the deep funk of Love Song to the Sgt. Pepperisms of Dear Jessie. And it easily was her most diverse lyrically up to that point. She covers many subjects on it. I mean, it manages to hang together very well, but maybe get off of Rebel Heart's ass a bit? I understand that Like A Prayer is the stronger record, particularly lyrically, but if you have a problem with Rebel Heart's variety, you probably should have the same problem with Like A Prayer's as well. But good luck trying to get her nostalgia-blinded fanbase to be consistent.
 
Vasilios

Vasilios

Um most us 40+ fans say that Like A Prayer is patchy and a bit of a mess compared to three before it - while also reaching the same peaks. I've mainly seen fans who didn't live that era stanning it. So, nostalgia... no.
 
Raichu

Raichu

I've seen mostly Madonna fans who fondly remember Like A Prayer as one of her "graceful" periods when she was "on top of the world" stan it. And I also think people who weren't alive during the era can still be blinded by nostalgia. In that they perceive the era as being something different than it actually was. But perhaps you are onto something because the album came out during my birth year I very much disagree that it's more patchy than the three that came before. It's her only 80s album without questionable deep cuts IMO and her only 80s album in which the singles are not leagues better than the album tracks.
 
linum

linum

discoteca said:
Love, love, love Rain.

The album version is clearly superior and that middle 8 is one of her finest--when that lawnmower sound kicks in... the video is also all kinds of wonderful.

The wealth of remixes, outtakes, and extras around this period is what has me salivating for the Erotica reissue.
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Rain was a moment! And that video!

Vasilios said:
Um most us 40+ fans say that Like A Prayer is patchy and a bit of a mess compared to three before it - while also reaching the same peaks. I've mainly seen fans who didn't live that era stanning it. So, nostalgia... no.
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For me the singles Like a Prayer and Express Yourself were strong enough to carry the campaign. Cherish is a weak single. Beautiful video of course! Oh Father was a great single I thought.
 
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