Madonna | Page 3863 | The Popjustice Forum

Madonna

Discussion in 'Comeback corner' started by debord, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. Good to see it was resolved. Cardi doesn’t show it, but the part about “being disappointed with her icons” shows how hurt she actually is by Nicki being hostile towards her, to be honest.

    I don’t think “bitter” is the right word for it, but Madonna doesn’t get near as much respect she does from both the public and the industry. Let the woman toot her own horn at times!
     
  2. These records have become void of meaning due to the entirely new beast streaming has made them. You can't compare the releases of today to the releases back in the day. You can't even "adjust for inflation" like they do with Box Office scores. It's just two completely different entities and thus quite... meaningless...
     
  3. As if the 30th anniversary of an album and record that not only changed the face of pop music but also society's stance towards women claiming their own femininity and sexuality isn't reason enough to commemorate the occasion. It's not Madonna's fault when her words are misinterpreted and perceived as a dig. If you really saw those words as insult than maybe your ego is a tad fragile.

    All these "children" are so completely clueless what the 80s and 90s were like and to what extent she put her head on the chopping block at the peak of her career. She could have lost it all (and did to some extent) but she pushed through and stood by her convictions anyway. She demanded attention, shone a light on subjects a woman was supposed to be demure and quiet about and refused to be pushed aside or ignored. The one thing Madonna has is that when you push her, she pushes back harder. One of the main reasons she is who she is and became the creamy smooth pop icon goddess she is. The Alpha and the Omega!
     
  4. Mr.Arroz

    Mr.Arroz Staff Member

    Hi.

    Just a reminder that it’s ok to disagree with people, to have different opinions etc., but please do move your more intense conversations to a private message should need be. The constant back-and-forth over pedantry and personal insults get to be a bit unnecessary for others to have to sift through. At the end of the day Madonna and Cardi have made their peace and moved on. We can all sit here on the daily and construct our own narratives about what’s relevant in the current era of pop vs. what happened 30-40 years ago; we can argue over semantics; we can posit our thoughts, but ultimately, we’re on a music forum. Let’s do less arguing and more thoughtful debate. When it gets personal and messy, hang it up. That’s not what we’re here for.
     
  5. I think Madonna exists in a space now where she is almost constantly fighting a war on 2 fronts. A war to have her legacy be acknowledged in its own time and her own story to be told, as well as a war to be allowed to continue that legacy as a modern artist making modern music.

    You will have people sit on the internet and accuse her of stealing 'Vogue' from the ballroom community, or downplaying her relationships with women, or indeed downplaying the very talent that created her music. In the same breath the idea of her making new music is ridiculed by people as she is told to stick to what she had done before.

    It is a difficult no man's land (and trust me, no male legend seems to experience this) where she is not allowed to claim her own cultural legacy and artistry to the wider public, and yet not allowed to exist as a artist pushing forward and building upon her canon. Even if she was bitter, she would have every right to be.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2022
  6. And in that same interview, Madonna praised Gaga's talent and said she was open-minded to the idea of collaborating with her. But then she committed the mortal sin of... hearing what everyone else had heard for a year. I do sometimes wish she hadn't said it because - at the time - Gaga's contingency on the internet really couldn't stand to be reminded that pop music did exist before she showed up, and that every step she took wasn't charting some bold, dazzling new terrain. And it made a bunch of kids hate Madonna when they really could have loved her music. And no one out there remembers the bizarre stuff surrounding Born This Way's release - Gaga claiming Madonna reached out to her in support of the song when she hadn't (did anyone ever publicly ask Gaga about this?), that weird pivot at the Grammys ("oh and apropos of nothing I love Whitney Houston and she inspired my new song kthxbye")... oh well, what's done is done.

    On the latter point, certain people get a pass. Look at all the stuff Elton has said about Madonna publicly, and she's always handled it with grace. He and Cher and Mariah can more or less say whatever they please, they can shade and outright come for other people, and it feels like everyone is all "yaaaaaassss queen" and "gather them!" With Madonna, it's "wow what a bitter c**t."

    And yet... I just know some fifteen year-old kid somewhere out there is hearing Express Yourself or Open Your Heart or Vogue or Frozen for the first time and having their world ROCKED. And I'm happy for that kid because I think what everyone here has in common is that, at some point in our lives, we needed Madonna to come in and give us something essential, who through her music seemingly saw something in us that we needed someone to see at that crucial moment. Joni Mitchell once said something about real connection happening between the artist and the listener when the listener hears not the artist but themselves in the work. I do have faith that that type of connection is still being forged in younger generations, and hopefully a few of those listeners get access to megaphones down the road.
     
  7. So happy to have Fever (Edit One) on streaming finally. What a moment in her discography! It improves on the (already very good) album version in every conceivable way.

    Erotica is probably my favourite Madonna album along with American Life/Ray Of Light (those two are rather interchangeable in my rankings). I came to the album quite late as a fan and I don't really recall the controversy around it since I was 5 when she released it (the only thing I vaguely recall was the video for Fever). It's such a masterful, arresting body of work from an artist at the absolute apex of her creativity. The care and attention she devoted to this project is evident throughout. For me, the title track, Deeper & Deeper and Rain rank amongst her very best. Finally, Erotica (William Orbit's 12' Version) is perhaps the most incredible remix of her career.
     
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  8. I hated the Madonna vs Gaga feud so much back when it was going on regardless of who said what, just because they are two of my heroes. I am so thankful that it's something we can now look back on and have a kii at since they are both clearly past the whole thing and it feels like they both like each other better, but it was truly gay Pearl Harbor for many of us ddd.
     
  9. Don’t want to derail too much with the Gaga stuff, but our very own Peter brought up “Express Yourself” to her in the 2011 NME interview, and she nearly burst a blood vessel over it. I don’t think he’s been allowed to interview her since and think she even briefly blocked him on Twitter. I assume she said the first thing that came to mind (M reaching out to her) in that moment on TV because she was nervous. We saw in the texts she sent to RedOne over the JLo song that the copying accusations really got to her. But there was a point where she herself poked fun at the comparisons, by putting on a TEAL AMBITION performance of the song



    and of course mocking it on SNL during the ARTPOP era



    So it was always funny that fans took it so personally. And some still can’t stand M to this day. I do think that shifted perception of her quite a bit, but I also think it’s only ever half of the story being told, and just more of a convenient thing people like to pull out to prove that she’s “old” and “bitter”.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2022
  10. matthew.

    matthew. Staff Member

    Nn thank god for @Mr.Arroz and his eloquent post because I was just going to come in here and post this;

    [​IMG]
     
  11. I hope Goodbye to Innocence makes its way to streaming eventually. It was just a b-side but I think it's instrumental in the entire narrative of the album/era.
     
  12. Say what you want about the quality of the reimagined sample remixes but my ten year old niece is singing Material Gworrl and I heard the The Queen's Remix in a bar last night, she feels visible again.
     
  13. Oh, took a weekend off and missed... everything. Bliss.

    I'm reading Elton John's book and God, how I wish Madonna would write one (and was as much as a music/charts anorak as he is (or appears to be, I've just started).
     
  14. The two memoirs I want most: Madonna and Barbra Streisand. And make them MASSIVE. 800 pages, 8-pt font. They’re both capable of writing very important, literary memoirs: the kind that get listed as feminist tomes, essential guidebooks of popular music, the industry, etc. Thankfully Barbra has already handed in a first draft.
     
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  15. That's why I kind of wish Billboard would have a delineation between the streaming era and what came before it. It really is becoming muddled and meaningless.
     
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  16. Hey All, I’m sorry to post this here but doing so as you’re my tribe. Anyone Amsterdam based that can recommend a nice hotel, near all the gay bars, for few nights next month? Again, apologies for posting here but im not sure who else to ask. I’ll be on my own!

    DM me please!
     
  17. When it comes to reductivegate I sometimes think Madonna won the battle but Gaga won the war in that it turned a lot of teen gays of that era against her. Many are still bitter about it and some are in media now lol.
     
  18. Still in Erotica 30th mode... was there ever a longer version of the Edit One version of Fever? I mean, it's perfect as is but wouldn't there have been an extended version?
     
    blod likes this.
  19. Speaking of biographies, there’s a new biography of her coming out in October 2023 by Mary Gabriel, author of Ninth Street Women about several female modern artists such as Lee Krasner, called A Rebel Life. This promises to be a serious look at her as an artist given the writer’s past work.
    https://www.littlebrown.com/titles/mary-gabriel/madonna/9780316456470/
     
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  20. No, I believe there’s only one version of Edit One.
     
    torontodj likes this.
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