More mods, more mess ... | The Popjustice Forum

More mods, more mess ...

Discussion in 'Forum business' started by type:epyt, Aug 4, 2011.

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  1. I am the only one who thinks that since this place has got more moderators, the state of the boards is worse?

    For example, we have a Saturdays and a Rihanna thread in the comebacks/retro section ... It's just putting the same overwritten topics into every section of the board ...
  2. SockMonkey

    SockMonkey Guest

    The Saturdays thread is in there because there was already a long thread about the album previously, but the 'merge' function doesn't work any more. Mvnl explained why he moved it.

    If you'd read it properly you'd also see the other thread is about Rhianna, a UK R&B act from around 2002, and not Rihanna.
  3. I'll give you the Rhianna tbread ... I just saw it and assumed thevworst ... Never any intention of reading a Rihanna thread ...

    Still think the Saturdays thread is a load of mince ... Regardless of excuses ...

    My original point still stands ...
  4. SockMonkey

    SockMonkey Guest

    I've given you the reason, not the excuse, that it was put there.

    So is your sweeping statement about the state of the boards based on one thread and one mistake? And 'more mods' equals a staggering two people by the way.
  5. "More mess" is definitely accurate. I mean, a thread of the "most slappable faces"? I don't care if it's "tongue in cheek"... that's a bit much, no?
  6. Mvnl

    Mvnl Staff Member

    Well as for the Saturdays topic, I moved it. The album is 3 years old, if someone opens a topic on it now it's not news, current or relevant, it's nostalgia, so the retro corner is where it should belong.

    The fact the merge function doesn't work isn't helping threadwise either I guess..

    As for more mods, more mess.. The only cases of 'more mess' I have noticed in the past months are the spambots, and an increase of new users who don't 'get' Popjustice or behaving like an adult. Neither are related to the amount of mods.

    As for different mods making different decisions. I love clear rules, and when everything is organized and happening in the exact same way for everyone, but unfortunately that just isn't always possible. The best way to get there is to ask other mods for their opinion before acting but that costs a lot of valuable time, especially when other mods aren't around and only respond 4 hours later. (Which, by the way, is not directed at anyone in particular, and not meant as a complaint either.. when I stay up until 6am to make sure things run smoothly at night I can't expect a lot of others to be around)
    I'm sure thinks would go a lot smoother if we all were in the same office, discussing matters before acting, and working together, but as it is, with each of us online at different moments from our own living room it's just pretty impossible to get everybody to handle things the exact same way. It's not like we went through days of training and reading about where the lines are drawn between rulebreaking and following and between the different subforums in different scenarios. In the end we read the same rules everyone can read and go by that plus our gut (and where possible deliberation) to try to keep this place running as smoothly as possible.

    Also, I think if we'd have less moderators right now it wouldn't result in things being handled better, it would result in less things being handled.

    More communication between moderators could definitely be valuable though.
    When I first started I suggested a monthly or weekly (online) meeting between moderators to discuss rules/suggestions/problems etc. I'd still be up for that, but with some people just doing it in their time off for a few hours or being in an entirely different timezone I fear that might just not be realistic.
  7. Your comment about people not 'getting' Pop Justice and 'behaving like adults' kind of sums up this place in the last year or so for me ...

    It has become like some kind of silly little club where you have to 'fit in' rather than a place for debate and opinion ...

    It has become a place where the adults are chastised for behaving like children (when we all know fine well how to behave and what is acceptable) ... Yet the children are encouraged to act like adults so you can all play along at dress-up behind your keyboards ...

    You needcto look atvthevaverage age of your posters and more importantly the post counts for each agevgroup before asking people to behave like adults ... The children should be behaving as just that and not some elitest idea of how 'adults' behave ...

    Meanwhile ... I'lll stick around for the music ...
  8. SockMonkey

    SockMonkey Guest

    But clearly sometimes people don't know how to behave or realise what is acceptable. That's the point of us being here. The rules have been around for years, and have barely changed.

    Your point doesn't make any sense; asking adults not to behave like children, and asking 'children' to behave like adults is the same thing - it's asking people to act like adults. There is no 'elitist' idea of how adults behave - it's just generally asking people to not be twats.

    If we didn't try and give people an idea of what the standards of the forum are, then the forum would end up in a total mess, and the debate and opinion you want would just be swamped with endless gifs, smileys and endless free-for-all arguments, and then you'd really have something to complain about.
  9. Mvnl

    Mvnl Staff Member

    Well this goes with a recent other discussion I had: should any medium, whether it's radio, tv, a website or a forum, adjust themselves to their members?
    That seems like the world upside down. Of course it would be nice, and suggestions are always considered to a certain extent but that doesn't necessarily mean that rules, main page content, forum sections etc should be adjusted to whatever the audience wants.
    If tomorrow 800 Bonnie Tyler fans registered and all wished for a subforum for her, should that be done? Should a rock bar start playing R&B when it turns out a large part of the crowd prefers that? Of course not. Would it be the nice thing to do? Yes.

    But Peter started this place with a certain vision, and it would be ridiculous if he had to adjust everything to whoever chooses to register in here. He might end up with a more popular site, but what would be the point if it wouldn't be one he actually liked himself?

    I know this doesn't mean things can't change, there are happy mediums, but if people have so many problems with certain rules and expectations on here, perhaps this just isn't the place for them. This place has always been above infantile text speak, 'lmfao', 'I can't', people being rude or disrespectful too others, GIFs, and other kindergarten crap. To come in here, agree with the rules, then start complaining that they're absolute nonsense and they should be changed is just as rude as signing a contract for a new job, then claiming a better pay immediately after that. If you didn't like it, don't sign and look for a job that fits your demands.

    You are however completely right: this should be a place for debate and opinions.
    Disrespect to people with other opinions and jokes about artists you hate have absolutely no place there.
  10. Or ... Be a member long enough to see the change in general feel of the site and those posting in it ...

    I'm not saying people shouldn't behave in a civilised manner, or use some reasonable form of the english language, but to call the vision you speak of 'adult' is misguided and condescending ...

    Using the word cunt or stuttering 'amazing' on the front page is not what i would describe as adult behaviour or close to what you expect from your members ... Yet acronyms and female dogs are persona non gratta ...

    As soon as adverts appeared on this site it was no longer ours or MrPJ's ... So we all should have a say in what is acceptable ...
  11. Mvnl

    Mvnl Staff Member

    Well acting civilised, not jumping at others when they say something you disagree with, using full sentences instead of a bunch of abbreviations and shout outs is what I'd consider pretty basic adult behaviour. And with that I don't say anyone younger than 12 isn't capable of it, but once you've passed that age you should be expected too.
    Of course there's exceptions like when people have a language barrier or other language problems, but for me acting like an adult just mean rereading your post before you press 'post', thinking before you speak, and respecting others and their opinions. Also: once another person doesn't respect yours thinking 'oh what the heck' and start argument because 'they started' isn't the most mature thing to do. But really these are rules that apply pretty much everywhere in real life as well, or should be applied when you strive for a peaceful friendly environment.

    Another reason I said what I said to you in the Youtube thread by the way is that I feared we might end up getting 2 or more similar discussions about the forum in general in several threads, which might get a bit confusing and messy.

    While I'm sure quite a few people wouldn't like others to talk like their writedowns on their blog or Facebook when they're actually trying to have a proper conversation, I see where you're coming from. The only explanation I have is that complete consistency is incredibly hard to reach. If X Factor has a forum, shouldn't Britain Got Talent get one as well? If K-pop has one, shouldn't French pop get one? I think it's safe to say there are no definite answers there. Same goes for 'if we forbid this curse word.. how about this one? And this one?' If one subforum being made means that plenty of others should be made too, the most consistent and realistic thing probably would be: no subforums.
    As for cursewords, the most consistent thing would be to either forbid them all (but then how about 'you silly!'? Some might find that an insult as well..) or forbid none of them (but I'm sure members calling eachother cunts isn't the way to go either).

    I don't know the ins and outs of it but I think those ad things usually don't even look at the content your site. Though I have known of forums where advertisements were pulled because some 'mature language' was used, so there might be certain filters.

    But Peter got the ads, could stop them whenever he wants to, so it is still his site. To say otherwise is.. well just technically wrong. As for it becoming more ours because of that? That doesn't really make sense to me either. Even as a moderator I don't feel I am entitled to anything besides having my opinion and hoping to be heard.
  12. I've always thought of the PJ site and forum like a modern-day Smash Hits. Which was always well-written, amusing, knowledgeable and yet accessible to everyone. It didn't patronise its readers or indulge them either. It had room for quirky features, its own little languge, but was never dumb.

    People didn't go around behaving like unruly 5 year olds back then, and they really don't need to now either. Society has gone quite a way down the shitter since the 80s, of course, and sometimes trying to stop the descent of standrads in literacy, politeness, behaviour and attitudes can seem futile, but there are enough places where the 21st Century has got its paws all over would be nice if PJ could resist.

    And, generally, it still does. The spambots/Death Row issues will probably be sorted out soon enough.

    The one aspect which slightly bothers me (only slightly) is the new K-Pop forum. But I understand why Peter agreed to it, and that's fine.
  13. Someboy

    Someboy Staff Member

    If anything, I think we could do with one or two more moderators.
  14. Charley

    Charley Staff Member

    This thread makes no sense whatsoever.

    We need less moderators because threads aren't where people think they should be? Let people behave like children because they know how to behave well, so moderators shouldn't be telling them when they're not behaving like adults?

    I'm sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but Popjustice isn't a democracy. It's a forum with rules that you agree to when signing up. It's not a dictatorship either, everyone's free to suggest stuff and, as seen with the K-Pop forum, these things are taken into account when possible. At the end of the day, the forum rules are there to be followed and the moderators are here to help make sure of that.

    The day all members are following all rules is the day there'll be no mess.
  15. I don't get where the OP is coming from...

    Why is more mods the problem for threads getting moved? Surely any number of mods could and would be capable of moving threads. The number is irrelevant, and the two factors are completely unrelated. Same with posting etiquette. Surely that's the prerogative of the poster themselves? Unless the mod nicks your laptop and posts on your behalf, it's the poster themselves that would be putting words into the post.

    And, If there were less mods, then we'd have a deluge of lesbian spambots, crazed stans, and Merzbeef still posting.

    ...Let's get rid of the mods.
  16. The tone of this place has vastly improved since the new mods were put into action. The spam is out of control, I understand there's only so much that can be done, but I think they're doing a great job and people need to stop complaining. They don't get paid for this; it is all done on a voluntary basis and I honestly don't think anyone else on the forum could do a better job. Not even me. I don't think MNVL, SockMoney and Someboy don't get enough praise for the work they put into keeping this board peaceful.
  17. Yes, I've always been very impressed with the mods here - and frankly, if some of the rules of posting weren't in place (and enforced) I for one wouldn't frequent this place.
  18. Me too.

    Though I miss most of the drama; I think most of it occurs in threads of artists I'm not that bothered about.
  19. JadeFan

    JadeFan Guest

    Actually Sockmonkey and Someboy's moderation is great.
  20. Mvnl

    Mvnl Staff Member

    I won't take that as an obvious dig at me, but if anyone has any problem with my moderation I'd quite like direct feedback (preferably by PM) so I can actually do something about it. And I think that applies in general. Opening a topic that's mainly about a problem with one particular moderator is never the way to go because others might think it's about them, while the one it's aimed at might not even read it.
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