♚ No Doubt Discography Rate (#46 - Approved by the president) ♚ | Page 35 | The Popjustice Forum

♚ No Doubt Discography Rate (#46 - Approved by the president) ♚

Discussion in 'Charts, rates etc' started by Maki, Mar 14, 2021.


What is your favourite studio album by No Doubt?

  1. No Doubt (1992)

    0 vote(s)
  2. The Beacon Street Collection (1995)

    0 vote(s)
  3. Tragic Kingdom (1995)

    15 vote(s)
  4. Return of Saturn (2000)

    15 vote(s)
  5. Rock Steady (2001)

    18 vote(s)
  6. Push and Shove (2012)

    4 vote(s)
  1. I use a spreadsheet for my scores. I colour code each album and then highlight each elimination in that colour.
    DJHazey and Maki like this.

  2. [​IMG]

    Okay, this is a bit of a reach, but I'm definitely glad we're losing the next song at last.

    Catch my misdirection.

    And even though you fool your souls
    Your conscience will be mine...



    Stand and Deliver

    Average score: 7.261

    Highest score: 10 x 3 (@Disco Tears, @Sprockrooster, @tylerc904)
    Lowest scores: 1 x 1 (@Babylon), 4.5 x 1 (@No hay banda)
    My score: 6.5

    High peak: #35 (7-8 voters)
    Low peak: #62 (22 voters)

    Finally. Okay, I'm projecting a bit. Still, how did "Stand and Deliver" manage to go this far? When I complied the song list, I was thinking this one should be lucky to get out bottom 15 and wouldn't gather much, if any, fans. Oh how wrong I was. It ended up gathering three perfect scores polluting the top 60 instead, when we had some brilliant songs leave before it. Welp... Imagine if it went top 40 like it aimed for in the beginning - I'm sure Sprocky would've taken over the rate in that case lol
    And an observation: If @Babylon gave this song a 0 instead of "A Little Something Refreshing", it would've ended up at #63. The later was doomed to finish at #99 anyways.

    In December 2008, No Doubt confirmed that they got back together after a hiatus for Gwen's solo projects and the next month officially confirmed the tour and plans of a new album. Prior to April of 2009, the band decided on "Stand and Deliver", a cover of 1981 song by English rock band Adam and the Ants (written by Adam Ant and Marco Pirroni), over a bunch of other tunes, but is noted to have taken the band only five minutes to decide on. Gwen once said: "We normally just email, but we got on the phone for that one" in deciding their choice. A fansite tells me that it's been reported that the band didn’t see eye-to-eye during the recording process for the song’s sound direction - a hint at "Push and Shove" was there all along. They performed the song while playing a fictional 1980s band (called Snowed Out), in the Gossip Girl episode "Valley Girls" airing 11 May 2009 - a series I know nothing about. After No Doubt’s appearance on that series, "Stand and Deliver" was recorded and sent to radio for promotion. It was also released exclusively as a digital-download when concert goers purchased a premium seat for their summer tour, as well as No Doubt’s full catalog. It eventually also made its way to iTunes as well to promote the tour. That's why it's widely considered a promotional single, though this song being the one they made a comeback with is... a choice.. Rumors were once swirling of the band making a music video for the song, but it never happened. It was eventually included on the deluxe edition bonus disc of "Push and Shove" in 2012, which briefly made me debate whether to include it in the extras section or not.
    The band debuted the song live in New Jersey at the Bamboozle Festival in May 2009. They most notably performed the song as a closer on their summer 2009 tour and brought out tour mates to play alongside with them and they hell quite eclectic - special guests included Paramore, Janelle Monáe, Katy Perry, The Sounds, Bedouin Soundclash and Shirley Manson. Katy Perry? Now that's a name I didn't expect to be mentioned in this rate.

    Seems odd that I'm pressed for a song I don't even actively dislike, but "Stand and Deliver" simply ended up overrated. It adds to the frustration that I definitely didn't expect this placement and thought that it was surely going to be the first elimination from "Push and Shove" and leave much earlier. After listening to the original version I've to the conclusion that I just not a fan of the song itself and that No Doubt actually improved it. Despite its playful side being rather charming, it's a pretty annoying song. Then again, the production is really good and instrumentation, which adds heavier synths (it was 2009, after all), is very nicely done, and it's a relatively fun song overall. The chorus is catchy enough and the post-chorus has a great melody, which is actually my favourite part of this song. And then you have that repetition of "Da diddley qua qua, da diddley qua qua" hook/middle-8/whatever. Just... make it stop. And when it does stop (only for a moment), you're left with Gwen shouting the song's title line into oblivion which rivals some of debut album's cuts in terms of irritation. But, yeah, some of you still call it a bop. Each to their own, I guess.

    At least @Sprockrooster (10) provides some back-up for his stanning: "Their first song in so long and being a Gossip Girl stan – well, these two worlds coming together was really helpful in pushing this track into massive long lasting appeal. This simply does not age!" and @berserkboi (9.5) loves it, too: "They do Quirky Rock very well here!" Not so sure about that, especialy after you slammed "The Beacon Street Collection", which is full of great quirks.
    Maybe I should've just copied @Angeleyes' (8) comment, who sums it all better than I did: "I'm a huge Adam Ant fan, although I heard No Doubt's version first and thought "what the hell is this?" Now that I know and love the original, I get their cover, but it doesn't fully translate. I think the verse really requires a British accent and Gwen's attempt here feels more like parody even though I know it's meant to be an affectionate cover. The beat is great and it's got a good energy, but if people don't know the original or Adam Ant I can see why they wouldn't like or get it, as I didn't myself. Not to mention the song in any form would not be everyone's cup of tea. But I'm so happy they paid tribute to Adam." Once again goes on to show skillful how they are at covering songs.

    Adam Ant himself praised No Doubt’s cover of his hit and I must include his comment(s) for the end - mostly aimed towards Gwen:
    "Gwen Stefani is one of the sexiest, coolest women in pop. She’s amazing, and it’s an honour to have someone like her cover my song. I’ve seen her perform it with Shirley Manson from Garbage and Katy Perry, too. If you add Lady Gaga and Pink to that list, you’ve got five women who are saving the music industry. I’m serious – women are ruling the pop music industry and those women have been at the top for a long time." Well, he sounds like a total Popjustice member. In case you're not convinced yet:
    "I love hearing girls singing my song and making it their own. I think we should sit up and take more notice of what women are doing to pop music these days. They look cool, they make an effort, and they’re incredibly talented. All this is going on at a time when most blokes in music look like they’ve just crawled out of bed with a bad dose of (pubic lice)." SCREAM.

    Next up: A big loss for your host and back-up host.

    Last edited: Jul 30, 2021
    GimmeWork, DJHazey, soratami and 7 others like this.
  3. The way that this piece of garbage karaoke outlasted some genuine gems from Beacon Street. Good riddance.
    Maki likes this.
  4. About time. I should have given it a 2. 5 was too generous.
    Maki likes this.
  5. I fucking love this cover!
  6. How can y'all actively hate a song that is such a bop?! Now I lowkey feel I should've given it a 10 instead of just a 9 lol.

    No but honestly, as annoyed as I am about the melancholic songs from their early albums (Sometimes, By The Way, Greener Pastures) being done dirty – Stand And Deliver does "quirky rock" so much better than anything on No Doubt or Beacon Street! Sorry @Maki.

    Now if we could get rid of the following songs next, that'd be great:
  7. Sod off, "Tragic Kingdom" hater!
    Though at least one of the fourteen songs you listed will leave within the next 10 eliminations.
    And I'm pretty sure there are a few songs you scored lower than some of the songs listed.

    Untouchable Ace and soratami like this.
  8. I never said I'm good at maths. Or at remembering what I said/did yesterday, let alone a few weeks ago.
    soratami and Maki like this.
  9. I was planning an elimination for tonight, but PJ song contests got in the way.

    At least with the departure of "Stand and Deliver" we know the top 3 covers, all of which are in the extras section:
    Oi to the World
    Love to Love You Baby
    It's My Life

    The next song to leave isn't a cover, nor a pre-2000 track, meaning that the first three albums are safe.
    Any guesses as to which one could it be?
  10. Random intermission: The curse of number 12

    One thing I noticed when looking a the leaderboard is that each of the albums' 12th track has been eliminated within the first two cuts from that album/section. Let's see which songs that applied to:

    No Doubt - Paulina (second cut from the album, #98)

    The Beacon Street Collection - N/A (no 12th track), but if we include the 12th track in that section, "You Can't Teach an Ol' Dog New Tricks", it was the second cut from that era.

    Tragic Kingdom - World Go 'Round (first cut from the album, #79)

    Return of Saturn - Staring Problem (first cut from the album, #75)

    Rock Steady - Waiting Room (second cut from the album, #62)

    Push and Shove - Stand and Deliver (second cut from the album, #60)

    Everything in Time - Sailin' On (second cut from the album, #77)

    This even applies to the extras section, where the 12th song listed, "Monkey Man", was eliminated second.

    A rather bizzare coincidence.

    soratami, Maria, berserkboi and 3 others like this.
  11. It's funny that you're upset that it was outlasted by one song on Push and Shove, it's not like it finished middle of the pack for the album or anything, and we always knew their first two albums would lose most of their tracks before any of the later albums lost much of anything. Call it receny bias or quality or whatever, it was just going to happen. Also, you must not have known Katy Perry did pop-rock before becoming a dance-pop star?
    berserkboi, Maki and Untouchable Ace like this.
  12. I totally get where this is coming from because a similar thing happened in Robyn discography rate - her first three albums more or less bombed, but there were still a few songs that made it relatively far. We'll see how things play out in this rate.

    In the case of "Stand and Deliver", it's more a genuine surprise, since I didn't see it in the top 60 at all, no matter how the rest was ranked. For example, I didn't expect "Monkey Man" (released in 2004) to escape the bottom 5, yet it did. Maybe if "Stand and Deliver" was among the extras, it would've exited earlier. Who knows...
    Oh, and ranting about how it finished compared to songs from other albums, it's mostly for the dramatics. You know how passionate I am when it comes to personal faves, hehe.

    And how could I not know Katy Perry was primarily a pop rock artist? I'm probably among a handful of PJ members who has listened to "Katy Hudson" album (multiple times!) and even stan some of the songs from it. I just had no idea she was in any way connected to No Doubt and didn't expect her name to pop up, hence the surprise. I actually find it pretty cool they collabed, even if it was for that live performance.

    Apologies for another delay, the next elimination is coming tonight, I promise!
  13. Wrongly too because Robyn Is Here is probably my second favorite album of hers!!!!!

    Stand and Deliver absolutely deserved to outlast Undone to be fair. What a snooze.
    berserkboi and Maki like this.
  14. "Waiting Room", "Hey You!" and "Stand and Deliver" all recieved my lowest score from each of their parent albums, and it was very satisfying to see them leave in a row, so of course I have to lose a 10 right after that.

    I'm obsessed...
    (with this song)



    Beauty Contest

    Average score: 7.289

    Highest score: 10 x 2 (@Maki, @Sprockrooster)
    Lowest scores: 5 x 1 (@Angeleyes), 5.1 x 1 (@Untouchable Ace)
    My score: 10

    High peak: #34 (6 voters)
    Low peak: #60 (24-25 voters)

    So... this song ended up in the bottom 3 of "Return of Saturn" B-sides/outtakes. Another indicator that some choices were made. Sing it with me in the melody of this song: How did my rate get such a mess? Okay, "Beauty Contest" was off to a good start, steadily maintaining a top 50 placement, before it began falling, nearly out of top 60. It didn't recieve any sub-5 scores, but it didn't receive a lot of high ones to secure it a better position. Such a pity for this amazing gem.

    "Beauty Contest" was written by Gwen Stefani and Tony Kanal during "Return of Saturn" sessions. Unlike most of the tracks from that era, the title of "Beauty Contest" wasn't mentioned by the band before it got officially released. It first appeared as a B-side to the CD single of "Simple Kind of Life" in *takes a deep breath* UK, USA, Germany, Netherlands, Australia and Japan, and later as a B-side to "Bathwater". Eventually, it was included on the compilation album "Everything in Time", like all of its B-side peers. There literally nothing about this song's background, but here's some trivia to make up for that: The little girl you hear at the very end of the song is actually Gwen's niece Madeline, who grew up to a beauty and looks quite a bit like Gwen. Also, as some of you already noticed, the line "born to blossom, bloom to perish" from the iconic "What You Waiting For?" was actually first used in this song. The mind of a mastermind etc. But, really, "Beauty Contest" has that honor. Unfortunately, the song has never been performed live, but that's expected, given its obscure nature.

    "Beauty Contest" is one of the most overlooked songs by No Doubt and this rate confirms that. I actually consider it the best B-side/outtake from "Return of Saturn", as well as my favourite song from "Everything in Time" album, so seeing it's among the first few out has me very confused. I mean, the lyrics alone:

    Damsel in distress is quite submissive
    Look how sunburnt my vanity is
    Effeminate human creature
    Superficial, seducing detour

    I'm going to the mall for the cookie-cutter
    The ugly duckling will always suffer
    Contaminated standards, don't try to fight it
    I better get back on my diet

    In a world where the definition and standards of beauty change every other week, it's not hard to get caught up in and overwhelmed by all of that. It's simply... unhealthy. In this song, Gwen vividly depicts this state of misery caused by a downward spiral from constantly seeking perfection. And knowing that Gwen, who's widely regarded as one of the most beautiful women in music, has all these doubts about physical appearance, it all becomes very real. Is there something that's perfection? The verses really cover that side of the story an the chorus further makes it clear that she's not well at all. It's like a confession signalling that she desperately needs help. The middle-8 is especially interesting, which likely references the misconception of lemmings committing mass suicide ('you're bringing out the lemming in me') and mention of 'a cattle-call disease', which frankly I have no clue what it is about. And despite going to multiple cosmetic procedures over the years, we know she's now happily living her life like the ageless queen she is.
    "Beauty Contest" may not be the crowning jewel of their songwriting, especially when it comes to this era, it sure shows how whimsical the approach can be. And I'm saying that because the lyrics are just a fragment of what makes this song so astounding. Composed in D minor key, which many consider the saddest one, it just perfectly compliments the depressing nature of the lyrics. A clear example of this is the song's culmination - Gwen's nearly harrowing screams following the middle-8 before she utters "I feel swollen", while a beeping synth resembling a heart monitoring machine repeats. Such a dramatic moment. And it can interpreted in a few ways, which makes it even more impressive. Her vocal delivery throughout the song totally captures the distress that's already been described. The subtle tinges of reggae in the instrumental are overshadowed by the haunting, moody and beautifully produced soundscape, enhanced by prominent guitar and occasional synths. The somber melody is a catnip for me (especially the way it slides on 'I'm obsessed...' bit, so beautifully sad), with my favourite part being the chorus. A wonderfully crafted song all-around and I can keep showering it with praise.
    I definitely think this should've made the album, but also completely get why they decided put it aside, since "Magic's in the Makeup" covers a very similar theme. Does it do it better in terms of lyrics? Probably. Is it better when it comes to the sonic aspect? I don't think so. But majority of you disagreed, so I'll continue to live in delusion (or perhaps hidden truth) that "Beauty Contest" is clearly superior.

    Off to the commentary, where things aren't all positive, but I've learnt to deal with that.
    Despite hearing the song for the first time, @Disco Tears (7) clocks the reference: "Another one I've never heard before. Interesting that "born to blossom, bloom to perish" was lifted from this!", while @berserkboi (7.5) simply says: "Cool vibe!" However, @AshleyKerwin (6) is not impressed, saying: "Magic's in the Makeup did it so much better." Putting one song down to praise another is not a good look. I consider them both lovely in their own way. Luckily, the only voter who joins me with a perfect score for this song, @Sprockrooster (10) is here with the tea: "This should have been on the main album as it fits so well and is defitinely better than several other tracks. Than again it gives the rarities album some actual life – like her screeches in the middle-8. I mean Gwen is serving here." No lies detected.

    "How'd my vanity get such a mess?
    Caught up in the beauty contest..."

    Next up: The first song of its kind.

    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
  15. It got an 8 from me and honestly could’ve been a 9 or higher.

    Any cut from ‘Return of Saturn’ is going to hurt though.
  16. I really like this one as well, and also gave it an 8. Could it have been a 9? Perhaps if they shaved like 30 to 60 seconds off. It feels slightly too long to me.
    Maki and berserkboi like this.
  17. I don’t really remember it which would be applicable to about 30 of these songs left, carry on! Ddd
  18. Well, that's why I make sure to embed a song link below. Furthermore, you can read the write-up while listening to the song.

    When it comes to carrying on, I was feeling pretentious and aimed to do another elimination today, but there's quite a lot to say about it, and between getting a runny nose yesterday and the world's smallest tick I found attached to me, that isn't possible anymore.
  19. I would've taken Panic and the other Everything in Time going before but I also only gave it a 6.75/10 so it's fine to go.
    berserkboi and Maki like this.
  20. Beauty Contest is easily one of the best/most memorable songs on Everything In Time, I definitely didn't expect it to be eliminated this early. In retrospect maybe I also should have rated it higher than 8 dd
    berserkboi and Maki like this.
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