♚ No Doubt Discography Rate (#51 - Give me one last kiss... + Top 50 recap!) ♚ | Page 20 | The Popjustice Forum

♚ No Doubt Discography Rate (#51 - Give me one last kiss... + Top 50 recap!) ♚

Discussion in 'Charts, rates etc' started by Maki, Mar 14, 2021.


What is your favourite studio album by No Doubt?

  1. No Doubt (1992)

    0 vote(s)
  2. The Beacon Street Collection (1995)

    0 vote(s)
  3. Tragic Kingdom (1995)

    13 vote(s)
  4. Return of Saturn (2000)

    14 vote(s)
  5. Rock Steady (2001)

    18 vote(s)
  6. Push and Shove (2012)

    4 vote(s)
  1. I simply don't get how this one ended up so low.

    Oh, and one of the voters is losing their favourite song from a certain album...

    Water the music, plant the seeds in the pot,
    Music is life flowing through, is it not?



    Move On

    Average score: 5.648

    Highest scores:
    9 x 1 (@Remorque), 8 x 1 (@SlowGinFizzzz)
    Lowest score: 3 x 1 (@An Insider)
    My score: 7.5

    High peak: #96 (7 voters, 8 voters)
    Low peak: #98 (7-8 voters, 11-14 voters, 19-20 voters)

    After a rather predictable bottom three, comes by far the most surprising elimination so far. What's even more baffling is that "Move On" never left bottom 5 throughout the voting period. I... don't know what happened, because this song is pretty great. The lack of higher scores is probably what caused it to plummet, though one thing remains - it definitely didn't deserve this treatment.

    "Move On" is one of the only two or three No Doubt songs that was written by all five members (at this time Eric, Gwen, Tom, Tony and Adrian). Though Adrian has called his writing credit on the song a "mistake", so what do I know. It seems that it's one of the songs made specifically for the album, since I couldn't find any live outings of this before 1990. It was originally written about Earth’s history, but Tony had re-written the lyrics to reflect the history of No Doubt. That was a wise decision, since it totally sets the song apart and is partly the reason I like it as much. And there's quite a bit to unpack when it comes to the lyrics. The opening line: "Some chickens crossed the road, straying far from the hen" is a possible reference to the time period when the band was still independent. The following line: "Five reached the side one step below Zen" is a direct link to John Spence's death, while "One was a female, four were mad men" is self-explanatory. The lyric "We moved on... / To our house in the middle of the street" is an homage/shoutout to Madness’ "Our House". The outro is basically about not giving up and continuing to go with your intentions, which is exactly what No Doubt did, putting in some serious effort into the songs, lyrics, musicianship and arrangements. And the chorus is such a great self-portrayal example:

    You have to understand that when it comes to making music
    We meshed the styles of five alive and intertwined and fused it
    Life comes from life and through our strife we strove to make the sound true
    Compelled to spell it out (no doubt!) in search of what we must do

    Really goes on to show how "Move On" greatly outshines nearly the entirety of debut in terms of lyrical content.
    The song was obviously performed during their live shows, starting with 1990 and continued during the promotion of their debut. But it didn't end there. I'm sure band loved the song a lot, since it's the only song from their first album that they performed during Tragic Kingdom World Tour, where it was put in a medley with The Specials’ "Ghost Town" - an absolutely fantastic performance that you just have to see (linked below). Because of that, I guess the song won in the end, especially considering No Doubt sure have more taste than you do.

    As mentioned, "Move On" is very autobiographical and therefore can be considered their theme song or even as the centerpiece of this album (especially since they shout "No Doubt!" at one point). Even putting the extremely clever lyrics aside, the sonic aspect of the song remains really good. Yeah, the constant switches it may come across as hyperactive, disorganized and a bit messy (admittedly, it took me a while to get into that part), but they still match the lyrics because each member of the band put their own sound into it. It also explains why it sounds edgier and a bit darker compared to nearly all of the songs from the album, since Tom comes from a punkier background. Gwen seamlessly goes from one genre delivery to another, accompanied by a variety of instruments. But that outro is the highlight of the song for me - the way it provides a massive switch with some incredibly slick guitar work, along with Gwen's chanting. Feels like it's a completely different song.
    Even though my score isn't really that high and I don't consider this a career highlight by any means, because of its lyrical wittiness and the massive glimpse of band's potential, it's in my top 5 from their debut album. But, sure, you lot think that "Monkey Man" is better than this. Mess...

    Let's move on to the commentary:
    Despite not being sold on the song, @Sprockrooster (6) highlights one of the many great lines: "’Don’t Forget Your Roots, But Also Don’t Rot’ is brilliant quite frankly." Speaking of rotting, @berserkboi (4.5) is here with his complaints: "More ear-piercingly quirky than fun in those affectations - soz Gwen!" and @bonnieetclyde (5) should've actually listened to the full song: "Very chaotic and would probably give me a headache if I listened to it the whole way through." Luckily, @Remorque (9) totally gets it: "Best song on the album by a mile! It's autobiographical nature meshed with the musical style is what makes it for me." While I wouldn't call it the best song on the album, it certainly does not belong to the bottom three of it.
    Oh well, I guess we should just listen to what the song says and... move on.

    (A must-watch performance!)

    Next up: The debut album takes a break, meaning that another section is losing a song.
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
  2. Here's another performance of "Move On" that was combined with "Ghost Town", from MuchMusic Canada concert in 1997:

    I'm quite obsessed with this live rendition.

    And the song they paired it with during these live performances:

    Another thing I forgot to mention is the first version of the lyrics for "Move On", during its early performances:
    Why are these giving me Marina vibes?

    And a random fun fact: The horrendous artwork for "Move On" is the very first one I made for this rate - back in 2019 (a year before I even hosted Lady Gaga unreleased rate!) Even though the font style is completely wrong and irks me a bit, I decided to leave it because of, um... sentimental values.
  3. Sorry, I really wanted to post the second elimination tonight but couldn't make it because of some obligations (including listening to St. Vincent's new album).
    After "Move On", it's another greater loss for me. At least you correctly booted two worst songs from their debut + "My Room Is Still Clean", but looks like things always go a bit downhill after a few eliminations in my case. ​
  4. Well, I've got an elimination (or two) ready to go, but I'll need at least some engagement before posting them. 'Move On" absolutely doesn't deserve this.
    Any thoughts about the song and/or its elimination? Any predictions for the next cut(s)?
  5. Not a fan of it. Let's move on hehe
  6. The Tragic Kingdom Tour performance is indeed good (much thanks to the inclusion of ‘Ghost Town’), however the song itself is not.
    Untouchable Ace and Maki like this.
  7. I wouldn't exactly call or a discography highlight or anything, but I definitely think Move On is one of the better debut tracks. Plus, I think it's pretty fun to listen to, musically.
    soratami, Untouchable Ace and Maki like this.
  8. I love the "Ghost Town" segment and how they paired it, too. I really like both songs, though.

    And here's a hint for the next elimination, which will be posted in about 10 minutes:
  9. This one was done quite wrong, but I can't fault that too much, since it originally wasn't even supposed to appear in the rate for multiple reasons.

    I drive in my dad's new car,
    This time I've gone too far...



    Showin Off

    Average score: 5.670

    Highest scores:
    9 x 1 (@Music Is Death), 8.5 x 1 (@Maki)
    Lowest score: 2 x 1 (@Babylon)
    My score: 8.5

    High peak: #77 (5 voters)
    Low peak: #97 (24-26 voters)

    Extras is the next section to get a cut. While I was hoping it would be a different song, "Showin Off" leaving first does make sense. Though it did seem like it was going to escape the bottom 10 at a certain point, by the time about 12 voters' scores were included, that was becoming less and less possible. At least we agreed that it's the weakest of the three demos included. But, hey, it did manage to surpass four other songs, three of which were professionally recorded/produced. I call that a success.

    "Showin Off" (yes, without an apostrophe) was most likely written in early 1987, therefore one of the very first songs they created and the oldest No Doubt recording featured in this rate. The exact writers are not known, but I'm sure Eric and/or John had a hand in . It's also one of the very few songs that feature John Spence on vocals - remember that, at this time, Gwen wasn't the only lead singer of the band. The song was released on No Doubt's first 3-track demo cassette tape, along with "No Doubt" (song we already spotlighted here) and "Everythang" (possibly an early/alternate version of "Everything's Wrong"), that the band gave out during their early gigs in 1987. Obviously, this means that these tapes are extremely rare. As I mentioned, "Showin Off" is the representative track from this demo, and was included in the rate purely based on my personal choice (i.e. as my favourite song from the demo) to fill in three missing spots to make this rate have 100 songs. This isn't an 'official official' release and thus was included. It is said that there were two versions of this demo released, one is black and white, and the other has yellow tint:

    Someone should try to call Eric

    Gwen said that they used to 'rent' recording equipment from their friends (basically just a mic and maybe an amplifier) during the time and this song is most likely the result of that. I bet they didn't have to pay much because the sound quality isn't good, but it is what it is. The meaning of lyrics is clear by looking at the song title alone and they're nothing special, but "I'm rappin' with my so-called friends" is quite a shady line. They performed the song only during their earliest shows from 1987.

    Despite thinking that it deserved much better, "Showin Off" shouldn't be considered a flop in its performance here. Presuming at least 90% of you have never heard this song before, considering it's a demo and has a low sound quality, that is definitely a good feat. However, I genuinely consider this better than majority of their debut (among other songs from their discography), mainly because of how different it is compared to most of the songs they made during the 80s don't worry, I won't make you listen to these for your own sanity. I think @SlowGinFizzzz mentioned during Watch2Gether session that this song reminds him of sad music from old cartoons, which is a surprisingly accurate description. As being a sucker for anything even remotely sad/depressing, no wonder this song clicked with me - the general melody and that trumpet solo are quite somber. Which makes that lyrics-music pairing uniquely confusing. Anyways, I really think that this should've gotten a proper release with finished production (and better chorus), because the instrumental alone has some huge potential. Them picking several different songs from 1987 to re-record, such as "A Little Something Refreshing" and "Paulina", and putting this one aside remains a choice. Even though I never expected it to do well, there are plenty of worse songs that deserved to leave before this one. In the end, we should consider that this is a really nice example of band's earliest sound, which I have a greater affection for.

    The commentary is slim, but generally revolves around the song being tricky to rate because of its demo .
    Starting with the one with the highest score, @Sprockrooster (7): "It is hard to compare such a low quality with these pristine productions. Especially as you can clearly hear a great track in this that would have definitely fitted well on the first two albums." @Angeleyes (4) continues on this: "Hard to rate this compared to their other stuff, because it's so different. I probably wouldn't listen to it if it wasn't No Doubt, but it's cool to hear where they came from, and I'd never heard a recording with John Spence on it before." I'll link the other songs where he sings in a separate post. @berserkboi (6.5) sums up the voter's thoughts: "Demo quality obviously not on par but a very cute tune!" I wonder how the song would've performed here if it existed it in a finished form.

    A different time, a different place, a different look, a different face...

    Next up: A song whose track length is below 3 minutes.

  10. Turns out that, apart from "No Doubt" and "Showin Off", there's only one more song recording which features vocals by John Spece - "You Owe Me" (also titled as "Get a Life"):

    Most likely recorded in 1987, this song remained unreleased and wasn't even featured on any of band's demo tapes. It's a messy bop, but certainly less messy than some other demos made around this time and it's nice to hear baby Gwen's vocals.

  11. Honestly I thought Showin Off was better than most of the stuff from Beacon Street
  12. I'd agree if you said the debut album - in fact, I scored "Showin Off" higher than all but three songs from their self-titled.
    But, really, it didn't do that bad for a shoddy recording of a demo.

    Also, you really think "Monkey Man" deserved to escape the bottom 5? Definitely not what I hoped nor expected to happen.
    soratami and Untouchable Ace like this.
  13. There's not much to say about the next three eliminations, so they won't be posted too far apart.

    Two of you will surely be happy to see this one out.

    I'm not your shoe string, your rope thing,
    Don't tie me in a knot...




    Average score: 5.783

    Highest scores:
    9 x 1 (@Music Is Death), 8 x 3 (@soratami, @Ana Raquel, @SlowGinFizzzz)
    Lowest score: 2 x 1 (@berserkboi)
    My score: 7

    High peak: #93 (26 voters)
    Low peak: #98 (6 voters, 15-18 voters)

    And we're back to the debut with "Doormat" being its fourth loss. I didn't have any expectations about this one, so it makes sense that it remained in the bottom 10 the entire time. Nothing exciting happened to its leaderboard trajectory during the voting, though I can say that it managed to escape the bottom 5 thanks to the latest few voters. Also, why did Gwen think that scratching her butt was a good pose for this photoshoot?

    "Doormat" was written by Eric Stefani, Gwen Stefani and Tony Kanal sometime during late 80s. It was first released on band's 5-track demo tape from 1988/1989, obviously in its demo form, before it got re-recorded and eventually appeared on their self-titled album. The lyrics are rebellious and quite fun, since they compare a bunch of random things you can use (and abuse) to show that you can't mess with Gwen. A cute concept. Obviously the song's title comes from the first inanimate object mentioned in it ("Umbrella" teas).
    The song was performed live up until early 1995, when it got probably its last outing during one of their shows promoting "The Beacon Street Collection" (performances linked below).

    I quite like "Doormat". As pretty much the entirety of its parent album, it's goofy, fun, doesn't take itself too seriously and is pretty enjoyable because of that. That's pretty clear as soon as you hear Gwen attacking you with all these ad-libs at the beginning. It's middle of the pack from this album for me, and I do get how its in-your-face approach might've scared some of the listeners away. It's good that they kept it short, because another minute of it would've been too much. I certainly enjoy Gwen's sassiness in her delivery (she's probably the only one who can pull this off) and Tony's excellent bass work, as well as the instrumental breaks, but there's not much to the song itself. Oh, and I love that 'feelings' outro! While it is far from being a standout, it remains a defiant little ditty which does bop to a certain extent.

    The commentary section is not as joyous as the song. Criticizing it for similar reasons as some other tracks from this album, @bonnieetclyde (5) says: "Another track that seems way too chaotic, musically, than it needs to be." Fair enough, though I find it charming. Meanwhile, @Remorque (6) has trouble memorizing it (I presume because of the song title): "I've listened to this one a lot and I still don't know how it goes... Says enough.", though I'm sure @berserkboi (2) will be happy to never recall how it goes: "Very unpleasant, sadly!" @Sprockrooster (4) also loses his lowest score from this album: "It would be unprecedented if their debut was flawless. Doormat prevents that from happening." No Doubt's debut album and flawless are two far different realms to be used in the same sentence. The only remotely positive comment for "Doormat" is from @Angeleyes (7): "Points for the bass here!" Yes, we love attention to details.

    Demo from 1988/89, which is more toned down in terms of harshness:

    Performance from 1991:

    Performance from 1992:

    Performance from 1995:

    Next up: A song from a different section, which shares at least one similarity with this elimination.

  14. ‘Doormat’ is my joint second favourite from the debut. Surprised it’s gone this early over some of the extras and other debut tracks.
  15. I'd be grateful if you could take us to the next page for the next elimination, which is pretty much finished.
    So, the next song isn't from the debut album, but is similar to "Doormat" for a certain reason. Any guesses?​
  16. I feel like people were a bit too harsh on the debut, it's really not that bad. I really hope that at least Let's Get Back, Sad For Me and Trapped In A Box won't be eliminated for a long while still.
  17. Doghouse, since that's also something people have near the entrance to their houses?
  18. I agree, as there are some weak tracks from nearly every other section. But we'll get to these eventually...
    Looks like "Move On" especially suffered a low blow due to general tanking of the debut and it's a bit unfair.
  19. I have to agree with @soratami, the debut really isn't that bad, Doormat definitely could've lasted a little bit longer.
    Praying for Sometimes now...
  20. Let's get to the next page
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