Pet Shop Boys - General Discussion | Page 5 | The Popjustice Forum

Pet Shop Boys - General Discussion

Discussion in 'Pop & Justice' started by Popjustice, Mar 5, 2009.

  1. debord

    debord Guest

    But I just don’t buy the ‘trojan horse’ argument. I mean Neil even acknowledged that most of the cds would end up in the bin. And my problem is not that they have collaborated with a ‘conservative’ paper but rather that they have collaborated with a paper that is downright racist and homophobic.
     
  2. While everyone to the left is squeaky clean and have no connections to anything murky in the present or past whatsoever.

    EG.
     
  3. Tribal Spaceman

    Tribal Spaceman Oh, OK.

    if they'd gone with the Daily Star there would have been a page 3 "tribute" to the Boys, no doubt featuring curvy women wearing "Go West" hats and not much else...
     
  4. It's probably nothing more than an attempt to reconnect with the masses. Once upon a time, remember, the PSB were very much in the mainstream - before coming out, before the sales started to decline, before the natural course of pop moved on - and I dont really see the big deal. Neil, especially, is far too savvy to be totally to the left or right in every aspect of ideology.

    Plus, the MoS's chief music critic - the ever-excellent Tim de Lisle - has always rated PSB very highly, and sees pop music in roughly the same terms as the Boys.

    EG.
     
  5. debord

    debord Guest

    Excuse me? What does that even mean? Neil said that he knew the Mail on Sunday was a horrible newspaper, so the (downright bizarre) argument that the Mail on Sunday is 'right-wing' (which I already said wasn't the problem) and somehow 'left-wing' newspapers are ideologically pure is a rather terrible attempt to muddy the waters.

    I do not think that a band as intelligent, aware and outspoken as Pet Shop Boys can attempt to separate themselves from promoting an absolutely vile rag by insulting people's intelligence and saying that no newspaper is perfect. Especially when Neil already all but said that it was entirely down to commercial reasons.
     
  6. It means that if the Mail is to have its murky past dug up at every turn (it happens all the time, be it the BBC boards, or various music/media boards), then the people who foam at the mouth over such connections should perhaps consider who their beloved Left-wing (political/cultural)icons have associated with in their younger days. Note that this isn't/wasn't specifically aimed at you debord, but at the attempt to take the moral high ground in general in the name of anti-conservatism.

    There are things which the Mail believes in/promotes which I fully understand will be at odds to the views and ideologies of many people, but time after time, year after year, the same old vitriolic tired cliches about hate-filled rags, and so on, get trotted out. A bit like the reaction from left-wingers when Margaret Thatcher's name is mentioned.

    EG.
     
  7. My parents read the Mail on Sunday, which doesn't really bother me despite it's despicable values because my parents are neither remotely racist or homophobic (thank god), so I found the Pet Shop Boys CD on my bed this morning courtesy of my dad, thanks to me being the house's resident 'pop' fan. For someone who has heard shitloads about PSB but has never really delved into their music past West End Girls, What Have I Done To Deserve This and that Comic Relief single, this is a welcome oppurtunity to see what all the fuss is about.
     
  8. debord

    debord Guest

    Well I would hope it wasn't aimed at me, because I haven't made anything of Mail 'connections'. I have made something of its outright racism and homophobia. Not the fact that it is right-wing, but the fact that it is unacceptably bigoted and promotes this agenda virulently. And I do not believe for a second that 99% of Pet Shop Boys fans would be defending it if this deal hadn't happened yesterday.
     
  9. I think I'd have to imagine one of my favourite acts joing forces with, say, The Guardian or the BBC, to understand the way a lot of PSB fans are feeling about this.

    In fairness, I would not be entirely chuffed at the idea of a band I'd always felt stood for certain things teaming up with an institution at odds with that (or at odds with my personal ideology). But I'm not sure I'd bang on about how revolting said Guardian or BBC are. Which is what tends to happen when The Mail is involved.

    EG.
     
  10. debord

    debord Guest

    You're not grasping me here. My problem with the Mail is not that it has a right-wing ideology. You seem to equate my saying that it is racist and homophobic as a euphemism for 'right-wing'. Right-wing people are not inherently racist and homophobic. They are negative qualities that transcend the left/right divide.
     
  11. It's a bit like the thread about offence. It's all so subjective. I see a lot of faults in the Mail, as with most papers and news channels, but I don't really get this sense of it being so utterly despicable. And to turn that the other way, a lot of people wouldn't understand why the BBC, the Guardian or AOL leave me disgusted on a regular basis.

    As I said before, not everything I'm saying is personally directed at you.

    EG.
     
  12. debord

    debord Guest

    Well wouldn't you find it a tad odd if some neo-fascist punk band did a cd giveaway with The Guardian?

    Whether or not I get offended by the Mail is one thing. Whether the views it advances are racist and homophobic are quite another. You may as well argue that all racism/homophobia is 'subjective'.
     
  13. That would be odd, but then that's not a reasonable equivalent to the PSB/MoS.

    It's quite ironic that the PSB were once thought of (in a classic case of misunderstanding) as pro-Thatcherites around the time of Actually (and songs like Shopping).

    EG.
     
  14. The whole Daily Mail debate is ridiculous. Fact is, enough people buy the Mail On Sunday to make it the biggest selling Sunday paper. So if the Daily Mail is neo-fascist, racist, homophobic etc. it only voices the opinions of a large chunk of the British public, a chunk to which PSB obviously wanted to promote and sell their music to. Selling music is their job. No professional asks their customers how they feel about immigration before providing services or selling goods. Why in the WORLD should we expect any different from PSB?
     
  15. debord

    debord Guest

    No, it's not an equivalent. But it's an exaggeration to underline the absurdity of an act collaborating with a publication which is the antithesis of everything you've ever professed to believe in. Believe me, this really isn't a knee-jerk reaction against the Mail on Sunday. I did not give a toss when Prince gave his album away with them, and I'm a bigger fan of him than I am of Pet Shop Boys.
     
  16. I wonder if there's an air of "rising above it" in PSB's decision to accept the MoS's request, if they really do abhor what the paper stands for. Maybe it's making a point that music is above all that stuff, and that if it's done with intelligence (as in the presentation and track selection) there is a justification in that. To some people, the fact it's a very stylish and typically PSB execution puts a plus point in their favour. I'm not really aware of Neil and Chris' convictions to know how much they have gone against them by doing this. And, as has been mentioned, ultimately it doesn't matter because they are just having an album distributed by the Mail, they haven't sold their souls to it.

    EG.
     
  17. They just wanted to promote to a demographic that doesn't normally like them and hopefully sell some more albums on the back of it.

    Shouldn't PSB promote in Italy because The Pope is anti-gay then. I mean, really...
     
  18. debord

    debord Guest

    On the contrary, I think most of the defenders of this move have focused solely on commerce in a way that I don't think they would if it was, for example, Germaine Greer giving away a novel with The Sun. Which I know brings with it its own arguments, but the point is that there has always been far more to Pet Shop Boys than just catchy pop music.

    I do feel I should re-iterate here that I said several times that I understood why they did this and that it wouldn't stop me buying their records. It's something I am disappointed by, not outraged by.
     
  19. It's a bloody CD freebie given away with a paper. It's about commerce. It's not some political statement.
     
  20. debord

    debord Guest

    And I don't think that a band who has, as I said, built up an entire cultural and ideological identity over 20 years can suddenly turn that off and explain it away with 'we're doing it to sell records'. And if it's not a political statement then why are apologists for the move trotting out the 'trojan horse' line?

    I don't think I can say anymore about this other than what I've said, given that we're obviously not going to agree. And I will respectfully agree to disagree.
     
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