He/Him
The trauma must have given me temporary amnesia.
Pet Shop Boys Rate. Part 1: 1985-1991. Winner.
- Thread starter Ray
- Start date
They/them, he/him
I kind of wish Frida had done a third English album with the Pet Shop Boys.
He/Him
Can you IMAGINE the majesty of such an endeavour? And the weaves that would accompany it?
47.
Not my cupotea
one of their finest moments
already sounded a bit dated at the time of release
absolute TRAVESTY
Well aren't you just being kind?
47. Losing My Mind
6.9777777778
B-side to Jealousy and a hit single "as seen on TV" for Liza Minnelli
Highest score: 10 (@tylerc904, @chris4862, @SmashHitter, @One Stop Candy Shop, @Jóga)
Lowest score: 2 (@Peer_Gynt10 as usual)
Neil: Our version of this is basically just the demo we made before recording it with Liza Minnelli, which we released much later on the b-side of the "Jealousy" single. This was done in our ZZ Top period, putting electric guitar samples on everything. The slow Follies, by Stephen Sondheim, had been on in London, which is where this song comes from. [...] When I saw the show I thought this song could be a hit record. It's a very beautiful song, though we obviously did it in a less sensitive way. We went into RAK demo studio to do this version as an experiment to see if it would work for Liza, and Chris came up with the riff that sounds a little bit like 'Physical'. Liza hated the screaming bit, which was taken from a sample CD, and refused to have it on her version. On reflection I think she was right, because it's a bit gimmicky. The same day as we recorded this, we recorded the demo for 'Nothing Has Been Proved'.
Let's start with @Peer_Gynt10: my estimate is that 8 PJ members, me included, will have commented that Liza’s version would have been a worthy winner
Well! Let's see.
@Bleu Noir: always disliked this, Liza totally owns it, pointless version.
@Farnaby: I hate the laughs. And sung by Tennant, the cover becomes some kind of cheap eurodance for dragqueens number. Not my cupotea. Of course, when Liza comes, it's another story.
@Mikey1701: Obviously Dame Liza Minnelli’s version is superior in every way (that particularly track frequently vies for the title of ‘greatest pop song’ ever recorded along with my 11), but this is still a pretty good effort, which is remarkable considering that this is a demo that has simply been mastered. The screams were a choice (what the fuck were they thinking?) and the shrill production can grate on repeated listens, but I’ve got quite a bit of time for this original effort. Hell, I even brought the Jealousy 12’ vinyl for the Disco Mix!
@ohnoitisnathan: I like Liza's version more.
and
@Ray: I like Liza's version more.
So that only makes six, and none of us other than @Mikey1701 actually suggest it should win. Sorry, @Peer_Gynt10. But is there anybody who PREFERS this version?
@chris4862: This is one of their finest moments. I struggle with the fact that it is not my 11. I may live to regret that decision for years to come. While I do slightly prefer Liza's more polished iteration, this song is song undeniably PSB and absolutely essentially to their discography.
Close!
@Jóga: They should've kept it for themselves, even if Liza's is wonderful.
YAAASSS @Jóga! (I hope it's gonna be alright, by the way.) Any more fans?
@One Stop Candy Shop: "Going crazy over breakfast" anthem. I prefer their own version over Liza's.
@TrendyMüller: The scream is a gimmick the song doesn´t need. Everything else is perfect pop by the numbers. It´s quite obvious how this morphed into Where The Streets Have No Name. [?]
@Eric Generic: their Losing My Mind is an absolute TRAVESTY. I shouldn't even give it 5. That's like another parallel PSB universe where they spend their days churning out Hi-NRG covers of other people songs (that sound like Always On My Mind) for the rest of existence.
Oh. Sorry about that. (Eric wrote comments on two songs, and this is the second one.)
@Sally_Harper: I know it’s the title, but all the “losing my mind” parts feel shoehorned in somehow. I’m not a fan of the screaming bits, but the rest of it’s great. [But do you like Liza's version more? Because I like Liza's version more.]
7" edit:
Disco mix:
Performance performance:
See? I told you a single was leaving. Technically not the Boys' single, but it has now totally left.
I can only pull this sort of "joke" once (was it even worth it?), so the next elimination tomorrow must be a Pet Shop Boys single that waited days to leave – if I do expect to be taken seriously.
I see you teasing my commentary and then not actually including it on the list...
They/them, he/him
It's in now, and those GIFs are priceless!I see you teasing my commentary and then not actually including it on the list...
(As far as I know mods now allow GIFs, as far as I am concerned feel free to post them. Especially if they feature Bowie, Tennant, Lowe, Minnelli,
And another of my 10s out with Later Tonight - my favourite song of Please's side two. With this and both Nervously and Jack The Lad gone, it seems to me that a lot of slower, moodier and melancholy songs don't fare well in this rate.
Was That What It Was? is really underrated by Neil and deservedly got an 8 from me. The extended version I hadn't heard yet is too repetitive, though.
Losing My Mind would have got at least 9 points from me without the obnoxious screams. At least Neil has agreed with Liza in hindsight. As it is, their version only gets 6 - although I may have been too generous as I now realise I get more irritated and annoyed by the screams messing up the song than by The Sound Of The Atom Splitting, which is meant to be artsy and not an easy listening experience.
Was That What It Was? is really underrated by Neil and deservedly got an 8 from me. The extended version I hadn't heard yet is too repetitive, though.
Losing My Mind would have got at least 9 points from me without the obnoxious screams. At least Neil has agreed with Liza in hindsight. As it is, their version only gets 6 - although I may have been too generous as I now realise I get more irritated and annoyed by the screams messing up the song than by The Sound Of The Atom Splitting, which is meant to be artsy and not an easy listening experience.
Most of my humour lends itself to this question really.
I´m such a flop fan. I had no idea that this was written by Sondheim and not Tennant/Lowe. The lyrics are so Neil.
I didn´t buy their singles at the time (except for Being Boring and DJ Culture) so I use this as an excuse.
My comment, which @Ray was questioning, was meant to describe how LMM is sort of an embryonic version of WTSHNN/CTMEOOY (best acronym ever). The out-of-date hi-nrg sound morphed into something more comically. Almost a parody of hi-nrg.
I didn´t buy their singles at the time (except for Being Boring and DJ Culture) so I use this as an excuse.
My comment, which @Ray was questioning, was meant to describe how LMM is sort of an embryonic version of WTSHNN/CTMEOOY (best acronym ever). The out-of-date hi-nrg sound morphed into something more comically. Almost a parody of hi-nrg.
I also thought it was a PSB original until a few years ago.
Not only is it a single, it's also bilingual.
46.
Imagine cheesiness and a crap way to open
classy postmodern pop
46. Dj Culture <- official spelling, can't help it 6.9972222222
17th single from Discography
UK #13, IRL #7, SWE #17, AUS #130, FIN #6, GER #19, Ray's Chart #5
Highest score: 10 (@tylerc904, @TrendyMüller, @Eric Generic, @slurmjunkie, @Jóga)
Lowest score: 2 (@JakeMagnus for a change, @Heaven on Earth)
Neil: When we were touring on the Performance tour, I wrote down in my notebook this phrase 'DJ culture'. At the beginning of 1991, just as we were about to go on tour, the Gulf War happened, and I'd had this idea – rather a pretentious idea in some ways – of the way that everyone talked about the Gulf War as though it was the Second World War. It was a very odd war, the Gulf War, because it wasn't really hand-to-hand fighting – it was like a computer game, almost, on television. And at the end of the day no one really won it. At the same time the cult of the DJ was becoming a big thing, and records being sampled too, and I thought: people don't just sample records, they also sample attitudes from the past. [...] People pretend President Bush and John Major are successful war leaders. [...] There was a lot of bullshit attitudes going on in the early Nineties, and the song is about how facile and pretentious modern life was.
The third verse is about how, if you have no history, you can reinvent yourself. There's a reference to Madonna in it – 'She after Sean'. [...] 'Liz before Betty' is something Heather Carson, the lighting designer, said on the Performance tour: 'that's so Liz before Betty', i.e. Liz Taylor before the Betty Ford Clinic. [...] It also quotes from Oscar Wilde who, when he was sentenced to two years' hard labour, after the judge read the sentence, said 'And I, may I say nothing, my lord?' I misquote this on the record. He wasn't allowed to say anything. [...] We'd had the idea of writing a song with a song structure a bit like 'West End Girls' [This never happened before, of course – Ray].
Chris: We recorded it with Brothers In Rhythm at Sarm West.
Neil: We went into the studio with Brothers In Rhythm to make two hit singles for Discography.
Chris: Obviously an impossible task.
Neil: Chris spent the whole time saying, 'Obviously they'll both be flops'.
Chris: And I was right. I've always had a problem with the idea that you write 'hits' for a greatest hits that haven't been hits, therefore it's a bit presumptuous to put them on the album in the first place.
Neil: [...] At the same time this was a record we thought might do something in America [yes, flop completely – Ray] – are we insane? [...] We weren't quite happy with the Brothers In Rhythm seven-inch so we did the twelve-inch thinking we might get ideas for the seven-inch. Then, quite some time later, we brought in Stephen Hague to work on the seven-inch. He suggested I change the words in the chorus – in the twelve-inch the words don't change when there's a double chorus, but in the seven-inch I add the '...wondering who's your friend' bit.
Ray: I have a mixed attitude towards this song. There are days when I love it. Then there are days when I skip it. I have no idea how they ever imagined it would be a hit. It's got 'nice album track' written all over it. Perhaps the scratching was supposed to make it a hit? But it is wonderfully, wonderfully produced. I love the lyrics. Unlike @DominoDancing I think the 'imagine the war which everyone won' is a really smart thing to say. Because history is written by winners. If Hitler won WW2, we wouldn't be learning about how Holocaust was a bad thing. So imagine a war where everyone won and it's taught about as this amazing thing that truly enriched everybody's lives and all of us should be happy it happened. 'Anything's possible, we're on the same side' – the side of fake sunsets. It's quite different from 'Violence' – it's more like Scissor Sisters' 'Sex And Violence' where they put this idea that the two are pretty much the same, and they truly can be. It's the advent of fake news, really. Using a snippet of truth to build a narrative around it, then present it as truth. I also adore the French bit. It's a bit of a call-back to 'It's A Sin', and a very smart one, too. And unlike their other attempts to rewrite 'West End Girls', doing so for a greatest hits album makes sense.
But what do YOU think???
@ohnoitisnathan: Such a weak lead single for their first 'greatest hits'. Where's the melody? [I'm guessing you don't like 'West End Girls' either.]
@Mikey1701: Completely forgettable. I struggle to remember what this goes like half the time. Totally outshined by it’s b-side. [True to form, this got 5 from Mikey, while 'Music For Boys' got a 10.]
@Sally_Harper: This is OK but it’s a bit flat.
@DominoDancing: "Imagine a war which everyone won" is sub-John-Lennon-Imagine cheesiness and a crap way to open an otherwise really good song.
@Bleu Noir: doesn't really go anywhere.
Seems popular so far.
@Farnaby: Only in the 7" version. Strangely the 12" wipes all the magic out.
@Jóga: Love, love, love the references.
@One Stop Candy Shop: I like this a lot. But still a strange choice for a single off a greatest hits album.
@Future Lover: Now we're talking. This is just the kind of classy postmodern pop that I like from the Boys.
@TrendyMüller: Yes, a 10! You hear me!?! The 12“ would get even more points from me.
Would you give your 11 to the 12", @TrendyMüller? Because you DO know you were supposed to score your favourite mix of everything?
12" mix:
Grid mix (interesting – sounds official but I NEVER heard of it) Edit: Ah, this is the same as DJ Culturemix. Les Duh.
This is the last song with average below 7.
46.
Imagine cheesiness and a crap way to open
classy postmodern pop
46. Dj Culture <- official spelling, can't help it
17th single from Discography
UK #13, IRL #7, SWE #17, AUS #130, FIN #6, GER #19, Ray's Chart #5
Highest score: 10 (@tylerc904, @TrendyMüller, @Eric Generic, @slurmjunkie, @Jóga)
Lowest score: 2 (@JakeMagnus for a change, @Heaven on Earth)
Neil: When we were touring on the Performance tour, I wrote down in my notebook this phrase 'DJ culture'. At the beginning of 1991, just as we were about to go on tour, the Gulf War happened, and I'd had this idea – rather a pretentious idea in some ways – of the way that everyone talked about the Gulf War as though it was the Second World War. It was a very odd war, the Gulf War, because it wasn't really hand-to-hand fighting – it was like a computer game, almost, on television. And at the end of the day no one really won it. At the same time the cult of the DJ was becoming a big thing, and records being sampled too, and I thought: people don't just sample records, they also sample attitudes from the past. [...] People pretend President Bush and John Major are successful war leaders. [...] There was a lot of bullshit attitudes going on in the early Nineties, and the song is about how facile and pretentious modern life was.
The third verse is about how, if you have no history, you can reinvent yourself. There's a reference to Madonna in it – 'She after Sean'. [...] 'Liz before Betty' is something Heather Carson, the lighting designer, said on the Performance tour: 'that's so Liz before Betty', i.e. Liz Taylor before the Betty Ford Clinic. [...] It also quotes from Oscar Wilde who, when he was sentenced to two years' hard labour, after the judge read the sentence, said 'And I, may I say nothing, my lord?' I misquote this on the record. He wasn't allowed to say anything. [...] We'd had the idea of writing a song with a song structure a bit like 'West End Girls' [This never happened before, of course – Ray].
Chris: We recorded it with Brothers In Rhythm at Sarm West.
Neil: We went into the studio with Brothers In Rhythm to make two hit singles for Discography.
Chris: Obviously an impossible task.
Neil: Chris spent the whole time saying, 'Obviously they'll both be flops'.
Chris: And I was right. I've always had a problem with the idea that you write 'hits' for a greatest hits that haven't been hits, therefore it's a bit presumptuous to put them on the album in the first place.
Neil: [...] At the same time this was a record we thought might do something in America [yes, flop completely – Ray] – are we insane? [...] We weren't quite happy with the Brothers In Rhythm seven-inch so we did the twelve-inch thinking we might get ideas for the seven-inch. Then, quite some time later, we brought in Stephen Hague to work on the seven-inch. He suggested I change the words in the chorus – in the twelve-inch the words don't change when there's a double chorus, but in the seven-inch I add the '...wondering who's your friend' bit.
Ray: I have a mixed attitude towards this song. There are days when I love it. Then there are days when I skip it. I have no idea how they ever imagined it would be a hit. It's got 'nice album track' written all over it. Perhaps the scratching was supposed to make it a hit? But it is wonderfully, wonderfully produced. I love the lyrics. Unlike @DominoDancing I think the 'imagine the war which everyone won' is a really smart thing to say. Because history is written by winners. If Hitler won WW2, we wouldn't be learning about how Holocaust was a bad thing. So imagine a war where everyone won and it's taught about as this amazing thing that truly enriched everybody's lives and all of us should be happy it happened. 'Anything's possible, we're on the same side' – the side of fake sunsets. It's quite different from 'Violence' – it's more like Scissor Sisters' 'Sex And Violence' where they put this idea that the two are pretty much the same, and they truly can be. It's the advent of fake news, really. Using a snippet of truth to build a narrative around it, then present it as truth. I also adore the French bit. It's a bit of a call-back to 'It's A Sin', and a very smart one, too. And unlike their other attempts to rewrite 'West End Girls', doing so for a greatest hits album makes sense.
But what do YOU think???
@ohnoitisnathan: Such a weak lead single for their first 'greatest hits'. Where's the melody? [I'm guessing you don't like 'West End Girls' either.]
@Mikey1701: Completely forgettable. I struggle to remember what this goes like half the time. Totally outshined by it’s b-side. [True to form, this got 5 from Mikey, while 'Music For Boys' got a 10.]
@Sally_Harper: This is OK but it’s a bit flat.
@DominoDancing: "Imagine a war which everyone won" is sub-John-Lennon-Imagine cheesiness and a crap way to open an otherwise really good song.
@Bleu Noir: doesn't really go anywhere.
Seems popular so far.
@Farnaby: Only in the 7" version. Strangely the 12" wipes all the magic out.
@Jóga: Love, love, love the references.
@One Stop Candy Shop: I like this a lot. But still a strange choice for a single off a greatest hits album.
@Future Lover: Now we're talking. This is just the kind of classy postmodern pop that I like from the Boys.
@TrendyMüller: Yes, a 10! You hear me!?! The 12“ would get even more points from me.
Would you give your 11 to the 12", @TrendyMüller? Because you DO know you were supposed to score your favourite mix of everything?
12" mix:
Grid mix (interesting – sounds official but I NEVER heard of it) Edit: Ah, this is the same as DJ Culturemix. Les Duh.
This is the last song with average below 7.
Technically there are 17 singles left on Discography.
(I was super tempted to post a hint yesterday that it's one of the singles that are on Discography.)
But I'm also Team It Was Worth It, @Mikey1701. So yeah!
(I was super tempted to post a hint yesterday that it's one of the singles that are on Discography.)
But I'm also Team It Was Worth It, @Mikey1701. So yeah!
Not DJ Culture biting the dust already. Fuck's sake.
Oh, I think that is a perfectly valid reason to like the line. I guess it's also the whole "softly sung-spoken" delivery of the line that pushes it over the edge of cheesiness for me.
And I can just image some 16-year-old delivering that in a class room as the first line of the first poem he's written, thinking he's, like, you know, "super-deep and stuff".
D
Deleted member 6896
I think a DJ Culturemix edit (i.e. Grid Remix) would have made a better single. It's a bit
cha-cha/tango/mambo-esque..
cha-cha/tango/mambo-esque..
You´re MAD!
The French samples are of course taken from Jean Cocteau´s Orphee. In it leather-clad bikers listen to the radio that constantly transmits these strange nonsensical messages, which then trigger them subliminally to do awful things (like dragging people into the underworld).
It gives the song a whole new layer of meaning.
I love when PSB do these strangely intellectual things. It´s one of their most courageous singles and the complete antidote to that other single from Discography.
And DJ Culturemix is gorgeous. It exactly sounds like walking through a lucid dream.
The French samples are of course taken from Jean Cocteau´s Orphee. In it leather-clad bikers listen to the radio that constantly transmits these strange nonsensical messages, which then trigger them subliminally to do awful things (like dragging people into the underworld).
It gives the song a whole new layer of meaning.
I love when PSB do these strangely intellectual things. It´s one of their most courageous singles and the complete antidote to that other single from Discography.
And DJ Culturemix is gorgeous. It exactly sounds like walking through a lucid dream.