Very well?
Pet Shop Boys Rate. Part 1: 1985-1991. Winner.
- Thread starter Ray
- Start date
Very well?
How has it when it's the best track on Please?
And I'm in no way influence by the Liza Minnelli version, which I don't even like all that much, when I say this.
The Liza version is...well...I´m not one for shouting for bops, but this is one of those instances where a song that has excitement, intrigue and exuberance gets the showtune treatment and is drained off any of these things in the process.
Sadly we´re living in the age of these cover-dirges, and not even Liza´s tried and tested OTT Liza-isms make it bearable for me.
Sadly we´re living in the age of these cover-dirges, and not even Liza´s tried and tested OTT Liza-isms make it bearable for me.
"You can´t handle the truth!" -*gif*
The End Of The World is a fine song (it got a 9 from me), but overshadowed by the brilliance of a lot of the other Behaviour songs. Wish Only The Wind had made it this far, though.
My favourite Opportunities version is on the album, but I also like the gloomy speaking bit at the end of the original versions found on Further Listening. However, the song wouldn't have got a 10 from me if it didn't have the beautiful middle eight that gives it its title. I always disliked the Latin Rascals remix - the excruciating part starting at 3:41 is unlistenable for me.
As for the top 20, it still has 14 of my 10s and my 11, so I can't complain too much. Still, I think In The Night needs to go ASAP, followed by Paninaro and Domino Dancing.
Surprisingly, I only rated ten songs lower than the average of all participants. I believe I am quite critical of what the PSB (and other artists) release, so I am surprised that the majority of their imperial phase has been rated much lower than I would have expected.
The average that most closely resembles my rating is the one for Why Don't We Live Together? (8.0263888889 vs. 8).
The average that is furthest from my rating is Hit Music's (6.3819444444 vs. 10).
Regarding the songs I rated lower, the biggest difference is for It's Alright (8.0819444444 vs. 5).
My favourite Opportunities version is on the album, but I also like the gloomy speaking bit at the end of the original versions found on Further Listening. However, the song wouldn't have got a 10 from me if it didn't have the beautiful middle eight that gives it its title. I always disliked the Latin Rascals remix - the excruciating part starting at 3:41 is unlistenable for me.
As for the top 20, it still has 14 of my 10s and my 11, so I can't complain too much. Still, I think In The Night needs to go ASAP, followed by Paninaro and Domino Dancing.
Surprisingly, I only rated ten songs lower than the average of all participants. I believe I am quite critical of what the PSB (and other artists) release, so I am surprised that the majority of their imperial phase has been rated much lower than I would have expected.
The average that most closely resembles my rating is the one for Why Don't We Live Together? (8.0263888889 vs. 8).
The average that is furthest from my rating is Hit Music's (6.3819444444 vs. 10).
Regarding the songs I rated lower, the biggest difference is for It's Alright (8.0819444444 vs. 5).
This is the part I like best. (Possibly because I don't like the song itself much...)
Yes, I´m mostly in sync with @slurmjunkie and his PSB opinions, but I guess Latin Rascals will tear us apart.
I actually just heard the Bobby O. demo for Opportunities for the first time and I like it quite a bit. I dig Neils rather "spectral" performance. It gives the song the much needed detached atmosphere.
Funny how the percussion and synth are totally out of sync. You gotta love the pre-MIDI era...and now I wish once more that DIVINE would have recorded Opportunities. It´s made for her (although she should change the line to "I´ve got the looks, you´ve got the brains..:."
It would be boring if we agreed on everything, so I wouldn't let differing opinions on a remix of a PSB song get in the way of what seems to be a very similar PSB appreciation in general.
20.
My other 11, if possible.
still a classic
swept up in the euphoria of it all
20. Paninaro
8.1722222222
B-side to 'Suburbia', Italian 12" single (see cover above), featuring exclusive Ian Levine mix; "Italian mix" included on Disco.
Highest score: 10x13 (!) (@Farnaby, @One Stop Candy Shop, @Vive Indifference, @SmashHitter, @DominoDancing, @idratherjack, @JonBcn, @Eric Generic, @Auntie Beryl, @etcetera, @Scoundrel_Days, @tylerc904, @Peer_Gynt10)
Lowest score: 3 (@Heaven on Earth)
Wikipedia proves @TrendyMüller right: "The song is about the 1980s Italian youth subculture known as the paninari; derived from the word panino, Italian for sandwich, they were known for congregating in restaurants serving sandwiches and in the first US-style fast food restaurants, as well as their preference for designer clothing and 1980s pop music such as the New Romantic music of Duran Duran. Neil Tennant has said that they were drawn to the concept due to having shared those preferences."
Chris: WE discovered Paninaro!
Neil: We first discovered the Paninaro cult when we went to Italy doing promotion when 'West End Girls' was a hit in Italy.
Chris: It was a very distinctive style of dress – incredibly baggy jeans, that almost looked like – you remember after flares came parallels? They were straight all the way down which would stop at calf level and then they would wear Timberland boots. There might even have been a gap, but they were incredibly baggy jeans. Then they would always wear a fantastic pair of sunglasses, and almost a feather cut, long at the back, and some fantastic coat.
JS: Did they wear shirts or t-shirts?
Chris: I can't remember what the top was. It was probably a shirt, actually. It was like spotting an English sub-cult. They were very noticeable, which was very unusual in Europe, and they knew they looked fantastic. They used to hang around in sandwich bars and you couldn't help but notice there was something happening on the style front amongst the kids.
JS: Do you remember what music they listened to?
Chris: I think it was just fashion-based. Actually it was football-based.
Neil: I liked the fact that all the trendies in Milan loathed the Paninari because 'they all like Wham! and Duran Duran and Madonna'. We thought, 'How fabulous – so do we'. I like fashion cults, and theirs were the kind of clothes we liked.
Chris: The original lyric went 'Armani...Armani...Ar-Ar-Armani...Versace...cinque'. Then I edited out 'Versace', but I forgot to edit it out of the twelve-inch version.
Neil: The talking in the middle is also Chris, from an American TV interview, on Entertainment Tonight. [...] It was a nightmare, Chris doing his vocal.
Chris: You know what I'm like.
Neil: It was like getting blood out of a stone.
Ray: I don't really use it much – not as long as the fantastic '95 version exists. But I don't skip it either. It's a very solid track and I love it when it's done live.
Younger people's opinion: (I count myself among younger people, OBVIOUSLY.)
@Jóga: I actually like the '95 one more. [Brother from another mother.]
@ohnoitisnathan: I don't mind the '95 version, but this... not so much.
@tylerc904: I only use the 95 version but it's still a classic.
@Farnaby: My other 11, if possible.
@One Stop Candy Shop: Chris talking about fashion anthem. One of my favourites. And the video was so fitting. [Unlike the pants.] [I'll see myself out.]
@Future Lover: Simply a classic!
@Mikey1701: Has there been a more iconic B-side? [According to your scores, six of them – Ray] It’s such a simple song with a simple message- which is indicative of Dame Chris-fronted tracks but it’s so undeniably catchy that I can’t help but be swept up in the euphoria of it all. Probably my 2nd favourite Chris-led track. [What's the 1st favourite?]
@KingBruno: Yas at Chris shining.
@Sally_Harper: I don’t even know. [From this comment I don't even know either.]
@DominoDancing: One of my absolute favorites! Every part of this song is catchy, and instantly recognizable. The opening timpani hits, the long sweeps, Chris' spoken verses ("Passion and love and sex and money/Violence, religion, injustice and death", what a way to open a song), Neil's chorus, and of course the Entertainment Tonight sample. Iconic in every regard.
@Peer_Gynt10: the Disco version is 12” heaven; the 7” should have been a proper single and claimed its rightful place on Discography instead of Was It Worth It? [Paging @Mikey1701]
@TrendyMüller: I was (and am) never one for praising Armani…but I love the New York New York New York bit.
Italian mix:
Ian Levine mix: (I love the stereo effects)
Unreleased Ian Levine dub:
MCMXCANDOTHERLETTERS tour:
This leaves one b-side in the running, 'In The Night'.
My other 11, if possible.
still a classic
swept up in the euphoria of it all
20. Paninaro
8.1722222222
B-side to 'Suburbia', Italian 12" single (see cover above), featuring exclusive Ian Levine mix; "Italian mix" included on Disco.
Highest score: 10x13 (!) (@Farnaby, @One Stop Candy Shop, @Vive Indifference, @SmashHitter, @DominoDancing, @idratherjack, @JonBcn, @Eric Generic, @Auntie Beryl, @etcetera, @Scoundrel_Days, @tylerc904, @Peer_Gynt10)
Lowest score: 3 (@Heaven on Earth)
Wikipedia proves @TrendyMüller right: "The song is about the 1980s Italian youth subculture known as the paninari; derived from the word panino, Italian for sandwich, they were known for congregating in restaurants serving sandwiches and in the first US-style fast food restaurants, as well as their preference for designer clothing and 1980s pop music such as the New Romantic music of Duran Duran. Neil Tennant has said that they were drawn to the concept due to having shared those preferences."
Chris: WE discovered Paninaro!
Neil: We first discovered the Paninaro cult when we went to Italy doing promotion when 'West End Girls' was a hit in Italy.
Chris: It was a very distinctive style of dress – incredibly baggy jeans, that almost looked like – you remember after flares came parallels? They were straight all the way down which would stop at calf level and then they would wear Timberland boots. There might even have been a gap, but they were incredibly baggy jeans. Then they would always wear a fantastic pair of sunglasses, and almost a feather cut, long at the back, and some fantastic coat.
JS: Did they wear shirts or t-shirts?
Chris: I can't remember what the top was. It was probably a shirt, actually. It was like spotting an English sub-cult. They were very noticeable, which was very unusual in Europe, and they knew they looked fantastic. They used to hang around in sandwich bars and you couldn't help but notice there was something happening on the style front amongst the kids.
JS: Do you remember what music they listened to?
Chris: I think it was just fashion-based. Actually it was football-based.
Neil: I liked the fact that all the trendies in Milan loathed the Paninari because 'they all like Wham! and Duran Duran and Madonna'. We thought, 'How fabulous – so do we'. I like fashion cults, and theirs were the kind of clothes we liked.
Chris: The original lyric went 'Armani...Armani...Ar-Ar-Armani...Versace...cinque'. Then I edited out 'Versace', but I forgot to edit it out of the twelve-inch version.
Neil: The talking in the middle is also Chris, from an American TV interview, on Entertainment Tonight. [...] It was a nightmare, Chris doing his vocal.
Chris: You know what I'm like.
Neil: It was like getting blood out of a stone.
Ray: I don't really use it much – not as long as the fantastic '95 version exists. But I don't skip it either. It's a very solid track and I love it when it's done live.
Younger people's opinion: (I count myself among younger people, OBVIOUSLY.)
@Jóga: I actually like the '95 one more. [Brother from another mother.]
@ohnoitisnathan: I don't mind the '95 version, but this... not so much.
@tylerc904: I only use the 95 version but it's still a classic.
@Farnaby: My other 11, if possible.
@One Stop Candy Shop: Chris talking about fashion anthem. One of my favourites. And the video was so fitting. [Unlike the pants.] [I'll see myself out.]
@Future Lover: Simply a classic!
@Mikey1701: Has there been a more iconic B-side? [According to your scores, six of them – Ray] It’s such a simple song with a simple message- which is indicative of Dame Chris-fronted tracks but it’s so undeniably catchy that I can’t help but be swept up in the euphoria of it all. Probably my 2nd favourite Chris-led track. [What's the 1st favourite?]
@KingBruno: Yas at Chris shining.
@Sally_Harper: I don’t even know. [From this comment I don't even know either.]
@DominoDancing: One of my absolute favorites! Every part of this song is catchy, and instantly recognizable. The opening timpani hits, the long sweeps, Chris' spoken verses ("Passion and love and sex and money/Violence, religion, injustice and death", what a way to open a song), Neil's chorus, and of course the Entertainment Tonight sample. Iconic in every regard.
@Peer_Gynt10: the Disco version is 12” heaven; the 7” should have been a proper single and claimed its rightful place on Discography instead of Was It Worth It? [Paging @Mikey1701]
@TrendyMüller: I was (and am) never one for praising Armani…but I love the New York New York New York bit.
Italian mix:
Ian Levine mix: (I love the stereo effects)
Unreleased Ian Levine dub:
MCMXCANDOTHERLETTERS tour:
This leaves one b-side in the running, 'In The Night'.
They/them, he/him
I love how whenever somebody comes for my beloved anthem, I’m immediately ‘paged’. My impact.
Ciao Paninaro: FINALMENTE!
Why is Smash The System in your avatar, @TrendyMüller?
I was looking for some smashing FIORUCCI avatar to celebrate the demise of Panini, but nothing really fit. Then I was looking for "sandwich" and this was one of several "real" sandwiches and I thought: hey, this is IT! How better to wave arrividerci to Paninono than having some gelati?! (*giving away my thought-process*)
They/them, he/him
You really do the most with Paninaro.
I haven´t even started yet...I´m about to do a "cover version" called FERRERO.
19.
19. Tonight Is Forever
8.2847222222
An album track fromDame Liza Minnelli's Results Please
Highest score: 10x7 (@Heaven on Earth, @Sally_Harper, @TrendyMüller, @Future Lover, @Bleu Noir, @SmashHitter, @etienne)
Lowest score: 4 (@Sweet Music)
Neil: It's about kids going to Heaven, the nightclub. The title occurred to me in a nightclub once. The idea that you can make a brief transitory moment – fancying someone in a nightclub – into your whole life. It was written in 1985 when the club scene was changing; gay and straight clubs were being mixed. I like the contrast between 'tonight is forever', which sounds like something you'd see Nelson Eddy and Jeanette Macdonald singing in some old film, and my favourite lines: 'I haven't got a job to pay/but I could stay in bed all day'. The idea that you can just stay in bed and have sex all day. [Not about Morrissey, then – Ray] It's, 'Don't think, do'. I mean, I'm not like that myself. It was one of the things I admired about Chris when I first met him was that he was a much more hedonistic person than I was. I would like to like that sort of thing. Like, I like dance records but I can't really dance. In the song, by the end, it's not '...if we fall in love', but '...when we fall in love'. It's a total fantasy. We were always fascinated by the kids going out clubbing.
Chris: In the early Eighties everyone I knew sort of didn't work. Just got dressed up, lived on the dole, and got into clubs cheap – a life of living at night.
Neil: There is orchestral percussion – tubular bells. Real ones. One day we came in and there was a tubular bell player. Chris and I were very very against having real instruments brought in the studio. We weren't happy about it at all. We said, 'Can't you just get a tubular bells sample?' That's probably why they're turned down in the mix. This was so nearly the follow-up to 'West End Girls'.
Chris: We did it on The Tube and it didn't work.
Neil: That's why it wasn't a single. We got a real downer. It was the worst television appearance we ever did in our entire life. [...] I drank four pints of beer, then I had to sing 'Tonight Is Forever'. You never heard anything worse in your entire life.
(I don't think it's that bad at all. The interview at the beginning is hilarious though.)
Ray: I am like Neil describes above. Well, I did have my 'tonight is forever' phase, briefly, for about a year. But I'm an introvert at the end. I love the idea of being hedonistic much more than actually doing it, because it takes energy, money and time, and I'm lazy. And prefer to spend money on important things in life. Like [insert not hedonistic things in life].
@Mikey1701: Forever eclipsed by the spellbinding Dame Liza Minnelli cover from Results, but the original is still one of the greatest tracks from the imperial phase. Brilliantly subversive and 100% relatable: who amongst us has decided to go and get him blind drunk and not give a fuck that we’re penniless? [I don't like Liza's version of this so much. There, I said it.]
@DominoDancing: Liza's version puts this one to shame - it just works much better as a ballad. As presented here, it's fine, just not a stand-out. Neil absolutely despised his live performance of this on The Tube [see above – Ray] but, well, to be honest I think it's not THAT bad compared to some other performances over the last twenty years.
@Peer_Gynt10: good song, but I prefer Liza’s haunting version which is a straight 10
@Future Lover: One of the tracks that puts "Please" above "Actually" in my book. I know the rest of my fellow forum queens will praise Liza and stuff, but the original is fantastic as well. [I misread this as “yellow forum queens” and thought “I must have missed something”.]
Phew.
@One Stop Candy Shop: It's singleworthy, actually.
@Bleu Noir: perfect PSB hopeless romantic melancholia
@ohnoitisnathan: Could have been a single instead of 'Suburbia'. [SHOULD have.]
@Sally_Harper: It’s sort of Go West’s slightly more serious sibling, and I mean that as a compliment because I love Go West in all its cheesy glory. [You lost me here. How is this like 'Go West'?]
@Heaven on Earth: Most likely this will be an unpopular opinion, but I’ve got to say it: “Tonight is Forever” is the best song on Please. From the give-no-fucks attitude of the song yet combined with the bittersweet instrumental, it’s one of their most beautiful songs. This is definitely one of the most bittersweet songs, both emphasized by, as I said, the bitter instrumental and exposed, as I said, give-no-fucks attitude. It’s melancholic in the way the narrator doesn’t have a whole lot to give other than himself and how he desperately wishes it’ll be the same night over and over, as if his attitude is really masking an inferiority complex. The odd thing is he doesn’t even know if the object of his lust is willing to reciprocate. Yet the song is sweet, because all he wants is the chance to be with said person forever. But is that what he really wants? Maybe what all he really wants is to live in a dream that’ll maintain itself without any form of work expected from him. This song brilliantly goes all over the map with its emotions and it leaves me moved every time I listen to it. While this song is doomed to not become one of their best-known songs, I consider this to be a little treasure in the canon of pop.
And a REMINDER TO POST AN ESSAY:
@TrendyMüller: What a wonderful song! Please remind me to post my „essay“ about the song I wrote 10 years ago.
BBC Radio 2 live with orchestra and to be honest I prefer Neil's Tube vocals:
No 11s left today. Or tonight. Which is forever. Until tomorrow, when two songs leave and take their (your) 11s with them.
Edit: I just realised I have four pints of beer to blame for the fact 'Suburbia' was a single instead of 'Tonight Is Forever'. ALCOHOL IS BAD, KIDS!!!
19. Tonight Is Forever
8.2847222222
An album track from
Highest score: 10x7 (@Heaven on Earth, @Sally_Harper, @TrendyMüller, @Future Lover, @Bleu Noir, @SmashHitter, @etienne)
Lowest score: 4 (@Sweet Music)
Neil: It's about kids going to Heaven, the nightclub. The title occurred to me in a nightclub once. The idea that you can make a brief transitory moment – fancying someone in a nightclub – into your whole life. It was written in 1985 when the club scene was changing; gay and straight clubs were being mixed. I like the contrast between 'tonight is forever', which sounds like something you'd see Nelson Eddy and Jeanette Macdonald singing in some old film, and my favourite lines: 'I haven't got a job to pay/but I could stay in bed all day'. The idea that you can just stay in bed and have sex all day. [Not about Morrissey, then – Ray] It's, 'Don't think, do'. I mean, I'm not like that myself. It was one of the things I admired about Chris when I first met him was that he was a much more hedonistic person than I was. I would like to like that sort of thing. Like, I like dance records but I can't really dance. In the song, by the end, it's not '...if we fall in love', but '...when we fall in love'. It's a total fantasy. We were always fascinated by the kids going out clubbing.
Chris: In the early Eighties everyone I knew sort of didn't work. Just got dressed up, lived on the dole, and got into clubs cheap – a life of living at night.
Neil: There is orchestral percussion – tubular bells. Real ones. One day we came in and there was a tubular bell player. Chris and I were very very against having real instruments brought in the studio. We weren't happy about it at all. We said, 'Can't you just get a tubular bells sample?' That's probably why they're turned down in the mix. This was so nearly the follow-up to 'West End Girls'.
Chris: We did it on The Tube and it didn't work.
Neil: That's why it wasn't a single. We got a real downer. It was the worst television appearance we ever did in our entire life. [...] I drank four pints of beer, then I had to sing 'Tonight Is Forever'. You never heard anything worse in your entire life.
(I don't think it's that bad at all. The interview at the beginning is hilarious though.)
Ray: I am like Neil describes above. Well, I did have my 'tonight is forever' phase, briefly, for about a year. But I'm an introvert at the end. I love the idea of being hedonistic much more than actually doing it, because it takes energy, money and time, and I'm lazy. And prefer to spend money on important things in life. Like [insert not hedonistic things in life].
@Mikey1701: Forever eclipsed by the spellbinding Dame Liza Minnelli cover from Results, but the original is still one of the greatest tracks from the imperial phase. Brilliantly subversive and 100% relatable: who amongst us has decided to go and get him blind drunk and not give a fuck that we’re penniless? [I don't like Liza's version of this so much. There, I said it.]
@DominoDancing: Liza's version puts this one to shame - it just works much better as a ballad. As presented here, it's fine, just not a stand-out. Neil absolutely despised his live performance of this on The Tube [see above – Ray] but, well, to be honest I think it's not THAT bad compared to some other performances over the last twenty years.
@Peer_Gynt10: good song, but I prefer Liza’s haunting version which is a straight 10
@Future Lover: One of the tracks that puts "Please" above "Actually" in my book. I know the rest of my fellow forum queens will praise Liza and stuff, but the original is fantastic as well. [I misread this as “yellow forum queens” and thought “I must have missed something”.]
Phew.
@One Stop Candy Shop: It's singleworthy, actually.
@Bleu Noir: perfect PSB hopeless romantic melancholia
@ohnoitisnathan: Could have been a single instead of 'Suburbia'. [SHOULD have.]
@Sally_Harper: It’s sort of Go West’s slightly more serious sibling, and I mean that as a compliment because I love Go West in all its cheesy glory. [You lost me here. How is this like 'Go West'?]
@Heaven on Earth: Most likely this will be an unpopular opinion, but I’ve got to say it: “Tonight is Forever” is the best song on Please. From the give-no-fucks attitude of the song yet combined with the bittersweet instrumental, it’s one of their most beautiful songs. This is definitely one of the most bittersweet songs, both emphasized by, as I said, the bitter instrumental and exposed, as I said, give-no-fucks attitude. It’s melancholic in the way the narrator doesn’t have a whole lot to give other than himself and how he desperately wishes it’ll be the same night over and over, as if his attitude is really masking an inferiority complex. The odd thing is he doesn’t even know if the object of his lust is willing to reciprocate. Yet the song is sweet, because all he wants is the chance to be with said person forever. But is that what he really wants? Maybe what all he really wants is to live in a dream that’ll maintain itself without any form of work expected from him. This song brilliantly goes all over the map with its emotions and it leaves me moved every time I listen to it. While this song is doomed to not become one of their best-known songs, I consider this to be a little treasure in the canon of pop.
And a REMINDER TO POST AN ESSAY:
@TrendyMüller: What a wonderful song! Please remind me to post my „essay“ about the song I wrote 10 years ago.
BBC Radio 2 live with orchestra and to be honest I prefer Neil's Tube vocals:
No 11s left today. Or tonight. Which is forever. Until tomorrow, when two songs leave and take their (your) 11s with them.
Edit: I just realised I have four pints of beer to blame for the fact 'Suburbia' was a single instead of 'Tonight Is Forever'. ALCOHOL IS BAD, KIDS!!!
Last edited:
No. 19 for Tonight Is Forever?!? You don´t deserve an essay!
What a depressing mess!
Convincing myself that Soft Cell´s Bedsitter is the better version of TIF
What a depressing mess!
Convincing myself that Soft Cell´s Bedsitter is the better version of TIF