PopJustice News Network (PJNN): U.S. Politics Channel

LTG

he/him
So much of the initial hope and excitement I had for Kamala is…dying
It’s like the Biden campaign took back over after a few weeks of Kamala as candidate. And they don’t want any acknowledgement that Biden’s unpopular on anything.

(But then her 2020 campaign also flopped after some initial success when she started triangulating too much and didn’t seem genuine any more).
 
Phonebanked in Arizona and Wisconsin. She's getting killed with a lot of voters about the border.......

If she loses, it's gonna be due to immigration. Y'all I know we don't want to hear this and I'm gonna keep repeating it, but this is a serious issue for progressives that needs to be addressed in messaging. These people show up to vote, and they're not happy with the chaos at the border. I strongly encourage all of you to try phone banking at least once to get out of our respective ideological online bubbles. This has been really eye-opening for me.

I had multiple people tell me on the phone that the border bill didn't got far enough while praising legal immigration in the same breath. I was hoping I could push back on the immigration stuff as a messenger cause of my status as an immigrant "who came here the right way" (as one voter put it) but people - while supportive of immigration in general - still feel like the immigration rules and laws aren't being respected. The border isn't just being viewed by people as a human rights or cultural issue - it's being viewed as a law-and-order issue; as an issue about leadership; as an issue about chaos and strength.

This doesn't mean that Harris is going to lose - but this is genuinely a salient issue for a lot of undecided voters across the ideological spectrum - substantially more-so than I thought. I had an Arizona Democrat tell me he's voting for Trump at the presidential level for the first time because of the border while simultaneously supporting Gallego in the Senate race. Undecided voters are ~wild~
 
Last edited:
Phonebanked in Arizona and Wisconsin. She's getting killed with a lot of voters about the border.......

If she loses, it's gonna be due to immigration. Y'all I know we don't want to hear this and I'm gonna keep repeating it, but this is a serious issue for progressives that needs to be addressed in messaging. These people show up to vote, and they're not happy with the chaos at the border. I strongly encourage all of you to try phone banking at least once to get out of our respective ideological online bubbles. This has been really eye-opening for me.

I had multiple people tell me on the phone that the border bill didn't got far enough while praising legal immigration in the same breath. I was hoping I could push back on the immigration stuff as a messenger cause of my status as an immigrant "who came here the right way" (as one voter put it) but people - while supportive of immigration in general - still feel like the immigration rules and laws aren't being respected. The border isn't just being viewed by people as a human rights or cultural issue - it's being viewed as a law-and-order issue; as an issue about leadership; as an issue about chaos and strength.

This doesn't mean that Harris is going to lose - but this is genuinely a salient issue for a lot of undecided voters across the ideological spectrum - substantially more-so than I thought. I had an Arizona Democrat tell me he's voting for Trump at the presidential level for the first time because of the border while simultaneously supporting Gallego in the Senate race. Undecided voters are ~wild~
Ahh yes, Wisconsin, the state that famously sits on the Mexican border. Ffff this country, man. The way they probably haven't even once thought about the Canadian border in any capacity other than crossing it to get cheaper prescriptions. It really is fascinating that people will exonerate down ballot Dems on this issue and even enthusiastically vote for them while fully penalizing the presidential nominee (not that I want down ballot Dems to get hurt by it, but I don't understand why they perform so much better on the issue).
 
he/him
If she loses, it's gonna be due to immigration. Y'all I know we don't want to hear this and I'm gonna keep repeating it, but this is a serious issue for progressives that needs to be addressed in messaging. These people show up to vote, and they're not happy with the chaos at the border. I strongly encourage all of you to try phone banking at least once to get out of our respective ideological online bubbles. This has been really eye-opening for me.
I don't mean this to be dismissice sis but it reads as you having found an end event - Harris needing to win - and justifying anything that happens - Harris moving to the right - as actually a reasonable intentional move to that goal.

"Many Arizona voters are unhappy about the border"

Why are Dems relying on racist suburbanites to win elections in rhetoric first place?
 
I don't mean this to be dismissice sis but it reads as you having found an end event - Harris needing to win - and justifying anything that happens - Harris moving to the right - as actually a reasonable intentional move to that goal.

"Many Arizona voters are unhappy about the border"

Why are Dems relying on racist suburbanites to win elections in rhetoric first place?
I get where you're coming from sis, but these people show up to the polls - they're likely voters so obviously campaigns are going to pursue policies that more reliable voters wish to see. And unfortunately the Electoral College gives these people a disproportionate voice in presidential elections. There are more of these types of voters in swing states than in other areas of the country. And whether we like it or not, these people have equal voices in our electoral system. And if the NYT Siena poll (basically the best national pollster in the country) is to be believed - Harris has overhwhelmingly consolidated the Democratic base and now they're trying to win over the small slice of voters in this election that will decide the winner.

I will also add that while the Wisconsin voters I spoke too were overwhelmingly white with some black folks included as well, I spoke to a lot of Latino voters in Arizona who talked about how public services are being overwhelmed by the situation on the border.

I don't live there and it would be patronizing of me to dismiss these people's lived experiences from my vantage point in Washington D.C. even if I vehemently disagree with the logic of how they reached their conclusions. Engaging with them is the only way to push back on these narratives and persuade voters. I will say more people than you think are willing to entertain a conversation about the issues and are open to persuasion but they're not going to engage with you if they think that you're being patronizing or dismissive of their concerns. Obviously that comes from somewhat of a privileged position but ultimately consensus and coalition building is the only way you're going to achieve your policy goals and generate lasting policy. E.g. The reason the ACA survived repeal in 2017 was that the law became broadly popular amongst a broad coalition of voters - Democratic, Republican, and Independent.

Lastly, we may not agree with their logic - but to many of these voters, there is a distinction between immigrants who came here legally and "illegal" immigrants. A lot of these voters agreed that the immigration system needs to be kinder and more efficient and more humane but they want people to follow the rules - that's honestly what most of the conversations boiled down to. We can wax poetic about the socioeconomic, environmental, geopolitical conditions that is driving mass migration and how the majority of these people are just seeking protection and help but that goes over a lot voters' heads beyond academics, political and policy nerds.

Again, if you don't believe me, join a phone-bank and talk to voters!
 
Phonebanked in Arizona and Wisconsin. She's getting killed with a lot of voters about the border.......

If she loses, it's gonna be due to immigration. Y'all I know we don't want to hear this and I'm gonna keep repeating it, but this is a serious issue for progressives that needs to be addressed in messaging. These people show up to vote, and they're not happy with the chaos at the border. I strongly encourage all of you to try phone banking at least once to get out of our respective ideological online bubbles. This has been really eye-opening for me.

I had multiple people tell me on the phone that the border bill didn't got far enough while praising legal immigration in the same breath. I was hoping I could push back on the immigration stuff as a messenger cause of my status as an immigrant "who came here the right way" (as one voter put it) but people - while supportive of immigration in general - still feel like the immigration rules and laws aren't being respected. The border isn't just being viewed by people as a human rights or cultural issue - it's being viewed as a law-and-order issue; as an issue about leadership; as an issue about chaos and strength.

This doesn't mean that Harris is going to lose - but this is genuinely a salient issue for a lot of undecided voters across the ideological spectrum - substantially more-so than I thought. I had an Arizona Democrat tell me he's voting for Trump at the presidential level for the first time because of the border while simultaneously supporting Gallego in the Senate race. Undecided voters are ~wild~
I don’t think you’re wrong but I also think people are stupid or, put more generously, don’t think straight nn.

Truthfully it just goes to show how effective racist fear mongering is.
 
I don't think anyone is doubting the opinions or experiences of the people you've spoken with, @TheDangerZone

I also don't think @Sanctuary should phone-bank for Kamala Harris nn
Ddd totally fair. And Sanctuary shouldn't phone bank for Kamala because she hasn't earned their vote! I don't share any of this to disqualify the values that we collectively share on the forum or the world we're trying to fight for.

I think it's just insightful into the mindset of the electorate - my algorithm and social media feeds me almost exclusively progressive content - so I don't always know if I'm divorced from the concerns of other Americans.

I should also add that I'm by no means speaking to a representative sample of the electorate - there were people voting for reproductive rights that I spoke with. I just share it here mostly because I think it prompts interesting discussion since I don't know how many of us are in similar algorithm-driven echo chambers. And most of these voters aren't MAGA people who also have their own issues with echo chambers (E.g. what normal voter is as obsessed with trans folx as these right-wing weirdos) so I think sharing our conversations provides interesting insight into how the median voter is consuming politics.
I don’t think you’re wrong but I also think people are stupid or, put more generously, don’t think straight nn.

Truthfully it just goes to show how effective racist fear mongering is.
Ddd no disagreement with that. Talked to one MAGA voter somehow...and it was my first experience genuinely hearing non-online weirdos ranting about illegal immigrants, and after-birth abortions, and how the government is trying to kill Republicans affected by Helene.

WIIILLLLD is an understatement.
 

LTG

he/him
“Build the wall” has gone from something to be mocked to “actually, we’re going to build a more marvellous wall”. That rightward drift isn’t just a naturally occurring phenomenon. Also sending Kamala to the border to be the target in the administration wasn’t a great idea for the future.
 
I get where you're coming from sis, but these people show up to the polls - they're likely voters so obviously campaigns are going to pursue policies that more reliable voters wish to see. And unfortunately the Electoral College gives these people a disproportionate voice in presidential elections. There are more of these types of voters in swing states than in other areas of the country. And whether we like it or not, these people have equal voices in our electoral system. And if the NYT Siena poll (basically the best national pollster in the country) is to be believed - Harris has overhwhelmingly consolidated the Democratic base and now they're trying to win over the small slice of voters in this election that will decide the winner.

I will also add that while the Wisconsin voters I spoke too were overwhelmingly white with some black folks included as well, I spoke to a lot of Latino voters in Arizona who talked about how public services are being overwhelmed by the situation on the border.

I don't live there and it would be patronizing of me to dismiss these people's lived experiences from my vantage point in Washington D.C. even if I vehemently disagree with the logic of how they reached their conclusions. Engaging with them is the only way to push back on these narratives and persuade voters. I will say more people than you think are willing to entertain a conversation about the issues and are open to persuasion but they're not going to engage with you if they think that you're being patronizing or dismissive of their concerns. Obviously that comes from somewhat of a privileged position but ultimately consensus and coalition building is the only way you're going to achieve your policy goals and generate lasting policy. E.g. The reason the ACA survived repeal in 2017 was that the law became broadly popular amongst a broad coalition of voters - Democratic, Republican, and Independent.

Lastly, we may not agree with their logic - but to many of these voters, there is a distinction between immigrants who came here legally and "illegal" immigrants. A lot of these voters agreed that the immigration system needs to be kinder and more efficient and more humane but they want people to follow the rules - that's honestly what most of the conversations boiled down to. We can wax poetic about the socioeconomic, environmental, geopolitical conditions that is driving mass migration and how the majority of these people are just seeking protection and help but that goes over a lot voters' heads beyond academics, political and policy nerds.

Again, if you don't believe me, join a phone-bank and talk to voters!
Very interesting insightful post. But did you try to explain to the swing voters that a lot of the current immigrants are attempting to apply for political asylum which they have the right to do under US law? So technically they are doing things the right way and following the law. A lot of current immigrants are coming from Venezuela where there is a lot of political chaos and there is political persecution.
 

Top