PopJustice News Network (PJNN): U.S. Politics [Hell] Channel
- Thread starter Hyrulian
- Start date
I don't want to slip into conspiracies, but I am finding it highly suspicious that the Israeli government / military was so caught off guard with these attacks. I'm inclined to believe Netanyahu is using this moment to fully dismantle what little is left of democracy in Israel. The hundreds of thousands of protestors have all but given up to rally around his administration which is extremely alarming. This is something I was fearing would happen during the Trump administration (and almost did with the insurrection).
A two state solution is impossible with Hamas in control of Gaza though is it not? Hamas don't want peace, indeed their charter would expressly prohibit such an outcome as their goal (unlike Fatah and others). You cannot negotiate the sort of process being discussed when one side wants to exterminate the other. How do we ever move past that barrier?
And then you have the horror show that is 'Bibi' and his corrupt desperation to cling to power, and will use this to shore up his position and move swiftly past the massive protests we have seen against his government.
My heart aches for the innocent Palestinian people in Gaza with no voice and no hope, suffering the twin evils under cruel occupation where they are reduced to 'collateral damage' and will be the ones to suffer the consequences of what has happened in recent days, and the oppressive extremism of their leaders who live in safety and luxury elsewhere, stealing money meant to be used for social and economic benefit of their people to benefit themselves and their terrorist aims. The violent grabbing of power by Hamas from Fatah was always going to happen I think after 2005, but perhaps if it hadn't we would be in a different place. Or maybe that's naive in the extreme.
My heart aches for the people of Israel slaughtered, and those held hostage, including many anti-occupation activists - young and old - who believed another way was possible and were working so hard across borders to achieve it.
And my heart remains heavy that so often we see people thousands of miles from the conflict, who know nothing, genuinely nothing but think they know everything, and who seem to love the Israeli Government more than the Israeli people, or support Hamas more than ordinary Gazans, and excuse horrendous acts of brutality when it's "their side" because "the other side deserve it or brought it on themselves".
Too often it seems people confuse reasons with excuses. To often people don't understand that sometimes it's ok not to have 'a take'.
Pro Palestine. Pro Israel. Pro Peace. I continue to believe an end to the occupation and a two-state solution of peoples living in prosperity and security is possible. But it feels further away than it has for a very long time. But there remain some incredible reconciliation and peace building organisations who need support as much as ever.
And then you have the horror show that is 'Bibi' and his corrupt desperation to cling to power, and will use this to shore up his position and move swiftly past the massive protests we have seen against his government.
My heart aches for the innocent Palestinian people in Gaza with no voice and no hope, suffering the twin evils under cruel occupation where they are reduced to 'collateral damage' and will be the ones to suffer the consequences of what has happened in recent days, and the oppressive extremism of their leaders who live in safety and luxury elsewhere, stealing money meant to be used for social and economic benefit of their people to benefit themselves and their terrorist aims. The violent grabbing of power by Hamas from Fatah was always going to happen I think after 2005, but perhaps if it hadn't we would be in a different place. Or maybe that's naive in the extreme.
My heart aches for the people of Israel slaughtered, and those held hostage, including many anti-occupation activists - young and old - who believed another way was possible and were working so hard across borders to achieve it.
And my heart remains heavy that so often we see people thousands of miles from the conflict, who know nothing, genuinely nothing but think they know everything, and who seem to love the Israeli Government more than the Israeli people, or support Hamas more than ordinary Gazans, and excuse horrendous acts of brutality when it's "their side" because "the other side deserve it or brought it on themselves".
Too often it seems people confuse reasons with excuses. To often people don't understand that sometimes it's ok not to have 'a take'.
Pro Palestine. Pro Israel. Pro Peace. I continue to believe an end to the occupation and a two-state solution of peoples living in prosperity and security is possible. But it feels further away than it has for a very long time. But there remain some incredible reconciliation and peace building organisations who need support as much as ever.
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He/Him
Gays, especially white gays, need to stop deciding if they support a country or region suffering from war based on the simple fact if they can holiday there or not. Beyond irritating how they pick and choose who they want to support and let’s be clear, they don’t give a single fuck about the queer people living in those places who suffer under those conditions on a daily basis, just if they can post their bullshit love is love thirst trap or not.
he/him
Hamas was created by and funded by Israel in its inception to weaken secular Palestinian movements, because Israel has refused since 1948 to comply with the right of return, which the UN considers essential to a two state solution.
This is why some leftists are uncomfortable centering the discussion on apologetics over Hamas, because at the end of the day, the conflict is one rooted in the role of Zionism.
This conflict can only end by Israelis committing to the bit and openly recognizing the Zionist project's natural end is the complete genocide of the Palestinian people and that such is what they want, or by Israel giving up on the dream of Zionism and the ethno-state fantasy it once promised to deliver. Because the Zionist reaction has always been the same, whether Palestinian resistance was Islamist or secular or left wing or right wing - that there must be no Palestinian state and therefore no more Palestinian people.
I mean, this is being confirmed by other governments this morning. That monster was warned this was coming and did nothing.
he/him/basic cishomo
I really appreciate this answer Sanc. Just wanted to mention that. I've admittedly done the "Jesus Christ go do something FUN you're almost DEAD!" spiel but, I really do think that people like Sanders and Lee are sticking with it because they care, and that's sexy as hell. It's just unfortunate that I think people like McConnell and Feinstein also stick around because they care that scares me a bit.
This makes me sick. I can't ever imagine being in a position of power and letting that happen, and I'm a bit of an asshole. There's a special place in hell for the government if this is true.
It’s not unlike 9/11 where the signs were there, and not just there but perhaps flashing red, but the arrogance and superiority of the ‘bigger’ power made officials feel insulated.
Yeah, the whole gerontocracy angle misses the real issue: shit politicians. The real answer isn't term limits, it's relatively short terms with strong, fair, open primaries. If an octogenarian is mentally and physically fit for office and can still command the confidence of their electorate, then more power to them.
he/him/basic cishomo
It's been...alarming and disappointing, to say the least, to see people I thought were levelheaded, decent people respond to the recent news. It's so obvious to me which side of history to be on and I feel like I'm losing my mind trying to explain to people what's actually going on. I had an old friend actually say to me, "oh, so you support the killing of children and women?" like??? Obviously I fucking don't. Maybe take a step back and find the nuance and pull your head out of your ass and make an effort to educate yourself and listen? Not supporting apartheid and zionism and genocide doesn't make me an antisemite, cheering on the killing of civilians. I've seen some absolutely devastating stuff on social media so I've had to take a step back but I'm still doing my best to stay aware. I don't want to be ignorant and shrug my shoulders because it's not happening to me, I'm just still trying to find a way to engage without seeing things that play on a loop when I close my eyes. The news coverage has been appalling. The difference between "killed" and "died" - the bias has never been clearer. To actually see people be so willfully ignorant is making my blood boil.
I don't have enough followers on any platform to actually make a difference, but it's still so important to me for the people close to me and within my reach to know exactly where I stand and what I stand for and by extension, what I don't stand for. I've never had people push back this intensely before. I expected it from my conservative family members (who don't actually give a shit about anyone but Americans in their tax bracket unless Fox News tells them to care, truthfully) but there have been quite a few surprises. I've also never had strangers on social media come after me before, so that's been fun.
I'm thankful for this space to learn so much from a lot of really insightful and educated members. It's a relief to come on here and not be met with constant chaos. My heart hurts for all of the innocent people caught in this. So many seem to support an idea more than the actual people suffering so greatly. I want peace. I want people to stop dying in both Israel and Palestine. I want Palestinians to be treated like human beings. I feel like people are equating supporting these things as choosing a "side" and blindly supporting such violence because that's what the media always does. People have actually mocked me for saying I want peace, because a lot of them don't, truthfully. They're so far removed from it all that it's not actually real to them. They're just "rooting" for whoever they're told to. It's not a sports game. These are actual lives.
I don't have enough followers on any platform to actually make a difference, but it's still so important to me for the people close to me and within my reach to know exactly where I stand and what I stand for and by extension, what I don't stand for. I've never had people push back this intensely before. I expected it from my conservative family members (who don't actually give a shit about anyone but Americans in their tax bracket unless Fox News tells them to care, truthfully) but there have been quite a few surprises. I've also never had strangers on social media come after me before, so that's been fun.
I'm thankful for this space to learn so much from a lot of really insightful and educated members. It's a relief to come on here and not be met with constant chaos. My heart hurts for all of the innocent people caught in this. So many seem to support an idea more than the actual people suffering so greatly. I want peace. I want people to stop dying in both Israel and Palestine. I want Palestinians to be treated like human beings. I feel like people are equating supporting these things as choosing a "side" and blindly supporting such violence because that's what the media always does. People have actually mocked me for saying I want peace, because a lot of them don't, truthfully. They're so far removed from it all that it's not actually real to them. They're just "rooting" for whoever they're told to. It's not a sports game. These are actual lives.
This is a lose-lose conversation with a lot of my community that conveniently confuses being pro-Palestine with being anti-Semitic, but putting that a side I have been impressed by a lot of the reactions I've seen online since the weekend. It seems to me like the younger generation is a lot more in the loop and level-headed than others, and I wouldn't expect the conversation to be so pro-Palestine even 5 years ago.
He/Him
In a completely perfect world (i.e. you wave a wand and tomorrow this is solved), what would be the ideal solution? Genuinely. I don't know much about this particular conversation and it's pretty daunting to use your voice or speak up on something so nuanced and sensitive so I'd like to hear from people with deeper knowledge of this.
A free Palestine? A two-state solution? Are the Jewish people also entitled to a homeland or sovereign state in this reality? What should left-wing people be pushing for long-term?
A free Palestine? A two-state solution? Are the Jewish people also entitled to a homeland or sovereign state in this reality? What should left-wing people be pushing for long-term?
she/her
I definitely don’t have all the answers and there probably is no perfect answer after 70 years of violence, but ending the occupation, countries such as the US recognising Palestine as a state, and stopping Israeli settlements would be a good start.
The US has a lot of power here because they could make money and weapons to Israel (they currently send around $4 billion a year I believe?) conditional on stopping settlements, ending the occupation etc. but it’s never going to happen with Washington the way it is.
It's not that complex, enforce two-state solution, remove settlers from West Bank, lift Gaza blockade and recognize State of Palestine internationally. And Israel must finish removing Netanyahu and his right-wing zealots from power to save themselves.
I’ve also been encouraged by the reactions I've seen from my friends and follows across social media. I think most people (at least under 65) empathize with the innocent people caught in this bleak situation and want to see people in Palestine living free and not under occupation.
Sis.
Sis.