Popjustice Song Contests Hub: PJSC, PJ Retro, PJ00s, PJXtra – The Re-Up | Page 8 | The Popjustice Forum

Popjustice Song Contests Hub: PJSC, PJ Retro, PJ00s, PJXtra – The Re-Up

Discussion in 'Charts, rates etc' started by Jeffo, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. With PJXtra the other contests are taken into consideration (eg songs can’t have been entered into PJSC/00s etc) which, correct me if I’m wrong, isn’t a pre-requisite of other song contests such as the K-Pop song contests.

    This means there’s a definite link with the ‘family of PJ song contests’ which has been made out of respect for them and allows Xtra to run in parallel, albeit at a reduced pace, and hopefully without causing any impediments.

    Curious to know if the same conversations happened when 00s was introduced?
  2. Island

    Island Staff Member

    I just like rounds.
  3. [​IMG]
  4. londonrain

    londonrain Staff Member

    They didn't, but in fairness nobody was really maintaining any sort of "double crown" record across PJ00s and PJ Retro. It's very much been the PJ00s crew who drove the idea of creating cross-contest stats (which is why it was Mina who created the previous thread and it's now Jeffo).

    Sis, I'm already the first Triple Crown winner and my PJXtra win was a while ago, so if I really cared that much then surely I would have brought it up back when I won? I could just as easily say "TL;DR - I don't want a contest to be recognised unless I think I can win it!"

    You're also assuming that our knowledge is 90% or more English and our Spotify playlists/music libraries are the same. I don't actually think that's true at all, which is why only a small percentage of the songs in each contest round are actually known to the other participants. It's also worth noting that there are a lot of people who enter the other contests who either grew up in or live in countries that speak languages other than English and have rich musical traditions in those languages. For example, the latest round of PJ00s included participants from Austria, Brazil, Portugal, Indonesia, Australia, Germany, Malaysia, Serbia, the Netherlands and Poland, as well as participants who live in English-speaking countries but also have extensive knowledge of songs in Japanese, Chinese, Korean and Hindi.

    The fact that PJXtra is now consistently getting a decent number of participants (with its only small round being the one with a restrictive theme that required a Eurovision connection) indicates that there are plenty of people who are able to find eligible entries easily enough.

    Personally I also find it easier to find a PJXtra entry than a PJ Retro entry - it was much harder to find obscure songs before the advent of the Internet and P2P file sharing so the overwhelming majority of PJ Retro songs I enter are (a) foreign-language songs that I knew at the time; (b) songs that showed up on cassette compilations I bought in the nineties; or (c) songs I discovered after the fact in the noughties. On the other hand, PJXtra entries are an infinite resource since can be from any time from 2000 onwards and new foreign-language music is released all the time.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
  5. I just feel like that vital for the discussion is artists being ineligble in one contest and uneligible in a different despite the timeframe. Not here to bring up Rammstein/Rolf Sanchez again. Since there is that difference it shows there is variety between the contests.

    And honestly a quintuple crown involving Kpop is something I can get behind too. A contest is a contest.
  6. Island

    Island Staff Member

    I agree that it's easier to find a PJXtra entry than a PJ Retro entry. I barely know any undiscovered songs to compete for PJ Retro, but I dabble in enough foreign language music to consider participating in PJXtra if I want to.
  7. I think it makes sense to keep the K-Pop song contest separate from the other four, as it works in a completely different way, since there's no veto process and people can just enter whatever they want as long as it fits the theme. And songs entered in the K-Pop song contest can and have been entered in the other contests, and vice-versa.
  8. You're never going to change my mind on it and obviously I don't have any final determination on it anyway, so do whatever you want.

    I think it's funny that all you ever heard was "I wish foreign language tracks would do better" and so a separate contest had to be made for it just because that type of song wasn't as successful in regular contest, which adds to my point, marginalized type of song in normal song contests, a subset, fringe, etc.

    A true Eurodance song has never won 00s or Retro, I guess we should make a contest just for it.
  9. Also, it's a song contest where you could take any song entered and be able to enter it in any other established contest. You cannot say that about a song from 2010 and later, that has to be entered in PJSC and let's not kid ourselves PJSC should be changed to PJRecent because we all know 99.9% of the songs entered are within past five years, or at least not before 2010. So in 'reality' 2000s songs only go into PJ00s and pre-2000 only go into PJRetro. The point is there's already song contests available for every song you could enter in PJXtra. It's just people who want their foreign language songs to shine without putting them up against English songs, because like I said before it's a subset of pop songs they fear won't do as well in regular contest, which I feel isn't an excuse to be granted status as an equal to other contests. I can and do enter my foreign language songs into other contests already and didn't ever feel the need to make a separate contest for it.

    You can all wear your rose colored glasses and be blind to anything I'm saying but it's true, you're just biased.
  10. [​IMG]

    I smelt something good.
    Maki and Doodvid like this.
  11. londonrain

    londonrain Staff Member

    You could make this exact argument about PJ00s and PJOPS, both of which were created because their founders felt that the songs that qualified for those contests never did well enough in PJSC.

    You could also argue that the creation of PJ00s and PJOPS actually made PJSC even more skewed towards recent music because people then redirected their older entries to the other contests. We used to get a few older songs here and there in PJSC, and now we don't get any at all.

    Seriously, though... what exactly do you lose by allowing PJXtra to be recognised for the purpose of one specific statistic? What harm is actually done?
    Attis, berserkboi, soratami and 5 others like this.
  12. You could but it would be asinine and you know it.
  13. londonrain

    londonrain Staff Member

    ...but that is literally why they were created. You could argue that people should send their older songs into PJSC as well.

    I'm really struggling to see what harm is going to be done by allowing PJXtra the same status as the other contests.
    Attis, berserkboi, Island and 4 others like this.
  14. It is not why they were created, nobody entered songs from those eras at all, but they were entering foreign language songs. So why was that created?

    Why *clap* Isn't *clap* It *clap* Clicking *clap* For *clap* You *clap*
  15. [​IMG]

    Honestly, I don't think that inclusivity/narrower options make one contest more 'separate' than the other, when it's based on personal preferences (for example, I have the greatest number of potential submissions for PJ Retro, despite barely being alive during the timeframe of songs eligible for that contest).

    As long as a song contest has its own rules, revolves around more obscure songs and is being run (somewhat) regularly, it can be considered a regular contest.
  16. londonrain

    londonrain Staff Member

    Sis, there’s no need to attempt to sass me. Did you forget that I co-created PJ00s? Are you seriously telling me why I founded a song contest?
  17. The reality is that whichever contest one thinks is easier to find songs for is going to be subjective based on one's experiences, which is fine. (Though sometimes we're wrong. I remember thinking PJOPS was the contest I was most likely to win first of the three and it turns out it would be the one win that would stubbornly elude me for a long time, whereas I thought PJSC would take forever and I won that within my first 10 rounds.)

    However, I do think it's worth considering the context of the forum. This is a forum based primarily around English pop music. Doesn't mean that non-English music doesn't get discussed, but that it's not as inherent in the make-up of the forum as, say, even pre-2000s music because of the presence of the Comeback Cormer. (This excludes Kpop which is a bit of an anomaly here.) Because of this, I do think it's fair to say that PJ Retro and PJ00s are inherently less restrictive in general on this forum than non-English music. I'll also point out that I think it's weird that PJXtra is supposed to celebrate non-English music but still excludes pre-2000s songs but that's a different discussion that I'm not particularly invested in.

    The thing is, I feel like the multi-crown structure should be somewhat accessible for the average contest participant around here and I'm not personally sold yet on the inclusion of PJXtra achieving that. You're welcome to disagree with that but that's also part of why I'd rather see where the contest is in, like, a year before deciding. It'll allow us to sit with the contest for longer.
  18. So that means PJRetro should be out of the equation too. Several participants are born after the contest deadline ends. So it is unfair for them following that logic.
    Attis, Maki, soratami and 1 other person like this.
  19. Please see what I said about the presence of Comeback Corner being a part of the inherent make-up of the forum. This isn't based on birthdates.
  20. This logic....doesn't make sense to me. It is just as accessible. I'm about as white and English-speaking as you can get, but my first round of PJXtra, I managed to get third place, which is the first medal I've earned in any of the contests I've participated in.
    And it's been said that it's easier to find songs for PJXtra then PJRetro for some of us, and that's very true for me, as I was born after 1999, and almost all of the pre-2000 songs I know are by big forum faves that aren't eligible. So I rarely enter the contest.
    I don't know how much of the behind-the-scenes stuff works, but I really don't see what the problem is here.
    Okay, but age can play a factor into the music you know. Just as much as language and country do. You're more likely to know more of the music from the time period you grew up in.
    Attis, Untouchable Ace, Maki and 3 others like this.
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