Sugababes - General Discussion | Page 2624 | The Popjustice Forum

Sugababes - General Discussion

Discussion in 'Comeback corner' started by etienne, Jul 8, 2006.

  1. Edit: Mutya also left the band. She didn't publicly stick up for Keisha in the years 2001-2009 either and maybe that's because as Keisha said in her R5 interview today at the time she thought the behind the scenes support from the girls and reassuring seemed like enough.

    I'm just using that as an example. I really want people to stop trying to blame any individual or individuals about this.

    Heidi and Amelle claimed that they DID leave the band after whatever fallout happened and the label and management chased them to stay and find a new 3rd member to replace Keisha. Probably because that's easier than ending the band and not putting out an expensive album and also trying to get two new members. And probably for lots of other reasons we may never know.

    The common themes are they all (Keisha Heidi and Amelle) have said that there was some fallout and tension and it's been compared to the end of a relationship or marriage where you still love someone and wish them well but you don't want to be with them anymore. I think that makes a lot of sense. Whether you think they are lying or not each time the girls get asked these issues now which is all the time they all speak very respectfully of each other.

    So we need to stop the blame game..it's not healthy. The original lineup are back. Their plans are on hold. They have the most creative magic and Mutya and Keisha and Siobhan have all on podcasts and their IG Live Streams acknowledged Heidi so much in recent months. They don't want tension, blame or drama. We need to use their maturity as an example. They are back for us, the fans..let's just support and celebrate them and their amazing talent. And look forward to when they can resume their comeback and anniversary plans! ❤️
     
    XXX, Island, acer4ever and 4 others like this.
  2. Heidi and Amelle decided that they didn’t want to be in the group and did leave the band. The difference with Siobhan is that the label also didn’t want to continue with Keisha in 2009 (for whatever reason plus the fact that they had to add two new members). The band was broken up for a short period and the label asked Heidi and Amelle to come back.

    I’m not saying it was a smart decision from Heidi and Amelle to continue but it’s not like they didn’t do something about the situation. They actually left. The label rushing in a replacement and fans constantly asked about a reunion with all members/not the original members isn’t Heidi and Amelle’s fault.

    We’ll never know the full truth and it’s obvious that Keisha had a difficult time in the band because of the racist narrative she has been given by the media but to make assumptions that Heidi and Amelle haven’t apologized to her or that they shouldn’t have an opinion about BLM because of an incident that happend ten years ago (where Keisha is also partly to blame for and apologized for) is not right. Keisha herself said she always worked well with the other girls (up until Sweet 7) and criticized the label and the media, not the girls.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  3. I saw that Keisha’s story has been covered on Sky News. The comments on Facebook are horrible as you’d expect, but I really hate that we live in a world where we do expect that. It’s disgusting.
     
    DoggySwami, Sugaboy and Overdose like this.
  4. (Some) fans finally see the extend to what was done to Keisha and that's good! The main thing at this moment is to support her! Heidi would have never been treated the same way back in 2009 if she would have been the one that got axed and eveyone knows it. She could have talked about the wrongs that were done to her without having to fear to be indirectly labeled the angry black woman. This is not about creating drama, this is about shivting perspective and about an opportunity in which certain events can be reevaluated through a lens that isn't racist. Just yesterday Amelle publicly tweeted "I don't know why she (Keisha) blocked me", which once again implies that Keisha is iratic and unreasonable. I don't want anyone to "cancel" anyone but I just wish we'd be a bit more sensitive about micro-aggressions and about what they imply.
     
    OlliMaus, Sugaboy, jawow_ and 2 others like this.
  5. I wouldn't say (some) fans see what Keisha went through. I think most of us are very touched by hearing her story and are fully supporting her. The micro aggressions things do make sense in terms of what's reported on her but Amelle's comment was in response to a fan saying that Keisha had said Amelle isn't black (which I haven't seen and can't find) so Amelle was saying maybe she can't see it because she is blocked. And why can't she say that? Does that mean she is feeding into the angry black woman narrative? Or can it mean that she wishes she isn't blocked or its hurtful to her in some way? We don't know and have no right to say she can or can not feel something. Just because someone has fallen out with someone doesn't mean they can't say anything about them without being accused of feeding into a narrative that's racist. Especially as she didnt start that but some journalists did. Amelle is also from a different background and has faced judgements and prejudice and made it clear she wants to raise awareness and wants people to understand the black lives matter movement and NOT make this about Sugababes. I'm not even a huge Amelle fan, I like her but she isn't the problem here. She never was..nor was Heidi. It should never have happened to Keisha. Not the racism, prejudice, judgement or being replaced in the band but we don't need to blame anyone. She is being brave and speaking out and has so much support its great to see that. ❤️
     
    AllSixSugababes likes this.
  6. I mean it says a lot about people/fans who would rather focus on trying to shade the other girls or drum up a 'who's to blame?' argument between them 10 years later.

    When they could be using this time to acknowledge ongoing racial bias in the media and discuss ways to identify, expose and confront examples of racially motivated judgement and framing of black women across public platforms.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  7. You just compared the 2009 events to the end of a marriage on your IG page. I actually think that's a good allegory, so let's do it. Let's imagine the Sugababes history as a marriage between a white man and a black woman. The white husband decides that he doesn't want to be married to his black wife anymore so he throws her out of the house they lived in together for years and which she started building over a decade ago. The next day he invites another, a more light skined woman to his house and presents her as his wife and the new co-owner of his property. When questioned, he insists that it wasn't really his choice, his employer made him do it. What would we call that man?

    The divorced black woman pretty much decides to suffer in silence whilst remaining her dignity. One thing however she does is to block her ex-husband on Twitter. When asked about something his ex wife tweeted, he response with "she blocked me, I don't know why". The "I don't know why" part implies a lot. It implies that she had no reason for blocking him and that he got treated unfairly. I don't know about you, but in my opinion she had every right and valid reasons to block him. I'm actually glad she did and maybe it helped her to close that chapter of her life.
    If the husband would have just writen "I got blocked", things would have been different and I hope you understand why.
     
  8. I’ve been re watching their music videos today. Some fan has uploaded all their videos in HD.

    What would be your top 4 videos, and bottom 4?
     
    OhJimmy87 and Staystrong like this.
  9. Top 4:

    Freak Like Me
    Run For Cover
    Stronger
    Shape

    Bottom 4:

    Wear My Kiss
    Wear My Kiss
    Wear My Kiss
    Wear My Kiss
     
    acl, Mr.Arroz, sinner and 6 others like this.
  10. I can see where you are coming from but I dont agree sorry. The marriage and relationship analogy has been used by Heidi and Keisha which is why I said it. It isn't the same as being in a pop band where the label and management effectively control you and your actions especially over ten years ago.

    Amelle is being directed to a comment supposedly made by Keisha which is stirring up Drama because apparently Keisha said Amelle isn't black. Now when, where and why she would say this I have no idea. And I haven't seen any evidence of it.

    So for Amelle to reply to this comment being brought up by a fan on a difficult subject matter where she feels she has to address her background and faith herself is going to be difficult understandably. Especially as she hasnt seen the comment and can only conclude in that moment that she's pretty sure she's blocked and doesn't know why BUT adds that it's all good because she doesn't want to make it a huge issue. Ok so she doesn't have to say at all she thinks she's blocked and she doesn't have to say "I don't know why". But this is in a quick response to a fan on Twitter who is fuelling a fire.

    Amelle isn't the problem here. I repeat. Amelle isn't the problem. If people think that she is feeding into an angry black woman narrative that is not her fault. She is actually supporting Keisha's video and addressing Keisha being the person who suffered the most from racism and prejudice when they were in the band together. That is her message. That is her intention. So even if she has said she is blocked and doesn't know why, if it is like a broken down relationship that could hurt or confuse her too. And she can say or imply that without implying Keisha is an angry black woman. They were close once and they did really get on and have a lot of fun together..those times have gone.

    It's probably mixed emotions and bittersweet for all of them when they look back or are asked about the past.

    I just think the fans need to move past it too. The future is letting people speak up on their experiences and calling it out as Keisha is and for some change to happen.
     
    goodra90 likes this.
  11. Top 4 music videos:
    1. Hole In The Head
    2. Freak Like Me
    3. Push The Button
    4. Denial

    Bottom 4 music videos:
    1. Wear My Kiss
    2. About You Now
    3. About a Girl
    4. Follow Me Home
     
  12. Mine would be top 4:
    Overload
    Shape
    Run for cover
    Round Round

    Bottom 4:
    Follow me home - the concept ruins a beautiful song
    New year - cute but boring
    Flatline - didn’t match the song, and deserved a kick ass video.
    About a girl - messy
     
  13. Top 4:

    1. Denial
    2. Push The Button
    3. Caught In A Moment
    4. No Can Do

    Bottom 4:

    1. Wear My Kiss
    2. Follow Me Home
    3. Easy
    4. About You Now
     
    sugababesoverloaded likes this.
  14. For me there is no justification for Heidi and Amelle continuing the band without Keisha after she was "made" to leave the band. They got away with it because Keisha is black and the "Keisha is a bully" narrative came in handy. I'm not beeing shady, I think Heidi and Amelle acted wrong. Full stop.
    I can accept that we have different opinions on that and we can stop here.
     
  15. Top 4:
    Shape: no need to explain the majestic of this masterpiece.
    Hole in the head: the make up and the whole club setting is amazing. I was hypnotized since day1.
    Stronger: the idea of displaying 3 situations where the girls were uncomfortable with and them leaving and getting stronger is so inspirational.
    Run for cover: the underground settings, the theme of the song. Amazing.

    Bottom 4:
    About a girl: again no need to explain.
    Get sexy - Girls - Freedom: i didn't like the style of these videos. No story told. Even "in the middle" had no story but at least every girl had her own "room" and their names displaying with different fonts. And I loved Mutya's black shadow surrounding her.
     
  16. Top 5: Overload, Freak Like Me, Hole In The Head, Push The Button, Change
    Bottom 4: Soul Sound, Follow Me Home, Get Sexy, Wear My Kiss
     
    OhJimmy87 and V3RYP05H like this.
  17. Oh where are these?

    TOP 4
    Denial (love it)
    Push the Button (they looked fab)
    Freak Like Me (it was a vibe)
    In the Middle (similar reason to PTB)

    I loved the cheese of PTB and ITM.

    BOTTOM 4
    Follow me Home (weird)
    Soul Sound (wrong song choice and video)
    No Can Do (minus the pretty men types)
    New Year (was just a rehash of Overload)
     
    sugababesoverloaded likes this.
  18. That is a very interesting topic that is worth exploring, because I'm sure looking at the situation from the angle of "there are no originals left but the one that was fired was problematic anyway" helped many people to accept the lineup. I do want to say we probably put too much focus on the girls themselves when these strategies are pushed from higher spheres like management, marketing, and label executives.
     
    OhJimmy87 likes this.
  19. Keisha did an amazing job of examining what she went through without naming names, and made it pretty clear that the problem was so much bigger than any member of the group...
    She acknowledges that she had no control over her narrative and that the angry black woman narrative is so pervasive in every aspect of white supremacy...
    And we’re still talking about Heidi and Amelle???
    Maybe the takeaway should have been that we fundamentally don’t treat black women right???
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  20. Uno

    Uno

    Erm, I feel really ignorant asking this, but is Amelle not black? She posted on Twitter yesterday "I never said I was black - I am African, born in the UK, and a Muslim" but can't she be all those things and still be black? I'm a bit confused.
     
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