Taylor Swift - Lover (7th Album) | Page 847 | The Popjustice Forum

Taylor Swift - Lover (7th Album)

Discussion in 'Pop & Justice' started by Music Is Life, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. RainOnFire

    RainOnFire Staff Member

    The more I listen to The Man, the more I kind of... hate it? The lyrics leave me more and more uneasy with every listen, and I feel like it doesn't even bop hard enough for me to (try to) ignore the hamfisted message. Truly her worst singles run ever.
  2. Yeah the bulk substance of The Man more or less amounting to "but what if I were even more successful and respected" when she's got wealth and acclaim in spades while the rest is just a less clever take on her "man eater" image when she did it better on Blank Space...ain't really it. Like I love a breezy, Haimesque bop, but the content really needed some more fine tuning.
  3. What’s crazy about it is that she throws an excellent line like “when everyone believes ya, what’s that like?” in the pre-chorus. Like I know she’s capable of writing about this sort of thing with nuance because she did it in long form around the time of the trial and again in Miss Americana. It’s just frustrating when she swerves it for the sake of more GP friendly consumption (same with You Need to Calm Down).
    Lapras and Music Is Life like this.
  4. I'm typically one of the first people to call Taylor out for being tone deaf, but for the most part I think The Man is... fine. She's singing about what she feels her experience has been. The song is written in first person - its "I would be complex, I would be cool....they wouldn't shake their heads and question how much of this I deserve". It's not "we". She's not speaking for all woman kind. She's speaking for Taylor Swift and hoping women find something to relate to. I remember someone saying that it rubbed them the wrong way that she wants to get away with the worst traits men have. But I don't think thats what she's saying. She's stressed a lot this era that words like "calculating" and "strategic" are used like dirty words to describe women and impressive words to describe men. I don't think she's wrong there and thats the overall message of the song, right? I don't think Taylor wants to be on a yacht with male models. Just that if she were she'd be a slut, not the celebrated leader of the Pussy Posse.

    As for the criticism of her coming from a privileged place, yes, of course, but listen, as a standing rule there is always someone who has it worse than you do. I think criticizing her for not making sure to write about how better off she is than others gets into the territory of nit picking just to be nit picking. Writing about herself and hoping others find something they see themselves in is her best route, because otherwise she risks pandering and we've seen how that works out (see: You Need to Calm Down). In some ways I think Taylor has boxed herself into a damned if you do and damned if you don't area. We expect so much of female pop stars (specifically female, cuz no one expects anything of male singers) and lately a big part of that expectation is to write songs with social messages or that have some commentary on our political environment. So Taylor writes a song about sexism from the stand point of her career and... she didn't do it well enough to suit us. It starts to feel a bit like running around in a circle.
    Satyress, Ashling92, Sam and 59 others like this.
  5. Would be amazing if she released a duet version featuring Lizzo, that would be genious.
  6. 1989 is a truly flawless pop album. Every track could've been a single.

    *I've erased 'Shake It Off' from my memory.

    'The Man' is one of my least favourite tracks on Lover, but it's the perfect single for right now.
    ALEX likes this.
  7. RainOnFire

    RainOnFire Staff Member

    Shake It Off is easily the lesser of the two evils if we're talking about it and Bad Blood. A 1989 singles run where Bad Blood doesn't exist and All You Had to Do Was Stay was released in its place instead... the power that that could've had.
  8. Shake It Off is a bit cringe but the chorus is huge. It's obviously not the best on the album but I get my basic ass life.

    Bad Blood is literal garbage that shouldn't have made the album. The fact that I thought it would always remain the worst song in her discography and then she threw ME! at us...
  9. I'm aware that this is a #whatisdishunny opinion, but Kendrick on autopilot does elevate Bad Blood to a somewhat decent song for me. He inserts some much needed variation in pace and weight to the song.
    Ashling92 likes this.
  10. I still don't regret giving Bad Blood a 10 in the rate.
    Mikal, neinzedd and Espeon like this.
  11. You should.
    Rob, Petty Mayonnaise and Verandi like this.
  12. I don't care if I should, I don't. I get that it's objectively shit, but I get my life to it still.
    Espeon likes this.
  13. The album version of Bad Blood is awful but the Kendrick remix and the medley with Should’ve Said No are both bops so I’ve made peace with it having been a single over some of the better material from 1989.
  14. aux


    Should've Said No is my favourite song off the self-titled. To say I lost my shit watching a livestream on opening night when the banjo kicked in would be an understatement. Whew.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
    Ashling92 likes this.
  15. The album version of Bad Blood is far better.
    The single version cuts the verses, which are the best part of the song.

    I always thought the choruses aren't fitting and ruin the vibe, I remember being super disappointed on my first listen because I think the first snippet that circulated was of the verses.
    irishlamb and Music Is Life like this.
  16. RhythmNative

    RhythmNative Staff Member

    Her singles (particularly her leads) are generally a awful representation of her albums. If you judged her career on them alone without listening to her albums, you’d have such a weird, skewed view of her as an artist
  17. This is fair, but more so for her pop albums. Tim McGraw, Love Story and Mine were all perfect lead singles for their albums.
  18. The Man and Cruel Summer deserve both be single and a music video, I don`t understand why she abandoned this era after releasing Lover as a single, I read that her mother has some health issues again, maybe she's focusing on that :(
    chromatica likes this.
  19. RhythmNative

    RhythmNative Staff Member

    I agree and I suspect something changed around Red where she got into a pattern of self-consciously writing the “radio hits” as a separate cognitive process from the rest of the album. That’s the only way I can make sense of it.

    In terms of her single release schedule, there’s always so much DRECK to get through before the best songs (Red, Out of the Woods, Delicate) actually do get round to being singles.

    I thought she might have learned from the surprise success of Delicate (now one of her biggest radio hits) not to try and second guess it. But no, we have to get through the spoken-word, chanty tedium of You Need To Calm Down (I mean really how many times is she going to write the same top-line to the same beat?) and the reputational positioning of The Man before a Miss Americana or a False God gets a look in.

    At least Lover got an early push and a video (New Years Day, it’s equivalent song on Reputation didn’t) but I long for the day she records 12 songs not worrying about what the lead single is WHILE she writes it and listens to them all back once it’s done and just picks the best song to go out first.

    P.S. You just *know* that she beat herself up for the surprising “failure” of Style (I’m convinced we didn’t get a proper Getaway Car single release because of it) and the over-correcting chart pandering (which worked, unfortunately) of Bad Blood informs this attitude. And we’re still having to deal with these nursery-rhyme chanty choruses that she’s so much better than because of the success of that one bloody song.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
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