You are the company you keep.
Taylor Swift - Midnights
- Thread starter Slice of Life
- Start date
100%.
I'll start off by saying Matty is annoying and has a dumb, edgelord sense of humor. But a lot is being taken completely out of context, and Twitter is blowing it out of proportion. The kind of stuff said on that podcast is dumb, and our society has moved far beyond the need for that kind of "offensive" humor, but if we're going to lay the facts out as far as what was said....Matty didn't say actually anything about Ice Spice. And to be specific, the host wasn't even directly insulting her. He had never actually heard of Ice Spice, didn't even know what she looked like, and was making things up based on her name to be funny ("Yeah of course I've heard of her, she's a Spice Girl right? She's a Chinese Spice Girl"). Again, not defending the podcast or that kind of humor as a whole, but I think context is important here.
As someone who has been a fan of The 1975's music since their debut, I'll repeat that Matty is annoying and has a dumb, edgelord sense of humor. He says a lot of things that are problematic, and he doesn't think before he speaks. But I think he's made it pretty clear that he doesn't stand for a lot of the things people on Twitter are accusing him of. It doesn't make his "humor" ok, but I think it's important to look at the context here and see that maybe all not all of the sensationalism around him right now is totally true.
And all of that said, like it's been mentioned...this collab has been in the works for a while. Ice Spice is blowing up right now, Taylor has been a fan and they met months ago. The collab is already printed on CDs that will be on sale tomorrow. I get that it's not a good look, but I don't think it's quite as severe as people have snowballed it to be.
Scream.
She's never been so excited to be paired with another human being in her life. He went to about 5 shows in a row in plain sight, played in Phoebe's band opening for several of them, they did that weird thing where they mouthed love messages to each other on their respective tours... I said this last week so I'm sorry if I'm a broken record but she's openly encouraging being linked with him even if its just friendship or professional.
She's also chronically online and aware of her public image, its part of what makes her a genius. She knows what Matty said, its just a question of whether she doesn't care or is ignoring it and hoping it will go away. In either case its a terrible look.
There's plenty of things even to this day that Taylor deserves to be defended over and there are double standards littered all over her history as a public figure, and many of them still stand. But she doesn't need to be defended over this. I don't think it will kill her career or even dent her momentum much, but its a terrible look.
As I’ve been trying to say, it’s not on her to make excuses and explanations for what the guy she’s dating has said (which as said above, a lot of which has been taken out of context). Why is she getting more flack than Matty is? Be mad at Matty if you must be outraged.
I mean its mostly Taylor's fans and people who consume her music and media that are frustrated by her choices in this situation. I think Matty is deplorable so I wouldn't expect better from him; from Taylor post-2019 I would. And yes, on the whole, blaming a woman for a man's actions is rooted in misogyny, I agree. That underlies some of the reaction from some people that just want to take a pop at Taylor on social media because they already hated her.
The largest problem lies that Taylor created a standard for herself when she made her political statement in 2018/9, went all the way pro-LGBTQ with You Need to Calm Down and then released Miss Americana where this was her main plot point. She openly said that she wanted to use her platform to amplify unheard voices, and then since late 2020 she's been practically silent other than coming for a shitty Netflix joke and tying it into International Women's Day. She's filling stadiums around the US and is yet to utter a word about Roe v. Wade being overturned or the continuing encroachment into trans rights and drag bans. I adore Taylor and had to make this account because I tried to die on her hill in 2017 with reputation, but I've learned I can enjoy her music while still calling her out for this stuff.
Her silence these past few years wasn't acceptable, but endorsing Matty is downright inexcusable.
It’s one of the best ways to learn what you need to know about someone.
Taylor actually doesn’t have the best record when it comes to that! It’s fine, something meaty for her stans to grapple with.
Just want to point out that she did say something about this, also was pretty vocal about signing up for the midterm elections last year.
But I agree, I would love if she was more vocal about the attack on trans rights/drag bans that are happening right now.
He/Him
I miss Joe Alwyn :(
The optics of this whole thing are just bad, really really bad. Matty is a piece of shit and I highly doubt Taylor isn’t keenly aware that her fans aren’t in support of this union. But then you start getting into that weird parasocial relationship stuff. Taylor is not besties with her fans and her fans don’t get to dictate what she does and who she is seen with.
Like others have said, the grievance should land with Matty as he is the said piece of shit. I also agree you are the company you keep and Taylor has made a point about being super vocal in the last 7-8 years about politics/sexism/LGBTQ+ stuff and to be see canoodling with a man who takes pleasure in watching porn that brutalises black women isn’t a great fucking look either.
There’s a lot of layers and nuance to all of this and I’m sure other, more articulate PJ peeps are better placed to bring that nuance to the conversation.
The optics of this whole thing are just bad, really really bad. Matty is a piece of shit and I highly doubt Taylor isn’t keenly aware that her fans aren’t in support of this union. But then you start getting into that weird parasocial relationship stuff. Taylor is not besties with her fans and her fans don’t get to dictate what she does and who she is seen with.
Like others have said, the grievance should land with Matty as he is the said piece of shit. I also agree you are the company you keep and Taylor has made a point about being super vocal in the last 7-8 years about politics/sexism/LGBTQ+ stuff and to be see canoodling with a man who takes pleasure in watching porn that brutalises black women isn’t a great fucking look either.
There’s a lot of layers and nuance to all of this and I’m sure other, more articulate PJ peeps are better placed to bring that nuance to the conversation.
Look I'm no stranger to stanning white liberals. I love Madonna. I'm a giant James Cameron shill. It's just a thing you navigate with these people. I think a lot of self proclaimed Swifites haven't really reckoned with the normal thing that celebs are problematic because...that's how it is. How much it affects your view of them is up to you but I don't think ignoring it or bending over backwards to justify is it.
We all have our hypocrisies and allowances for people we like, it's how we remain self aware of that
We all have our hypocrisies and allowances for people we like, it's how we remain self aware of that
They/Them
I can't believe in 2023 we are still using "it's a joke" "It's just their sense of humour!" as excuses for shitty behaviour.
He/They
Almost as bad as "they're old, they're just out of touch".
If she is dating him, she deserves to be held to account for making that choice given his past (as I should be when I watch The 1975 pissed at Parklife in a couple of weeks) But maybe its just messing around PR rubbish,
Anyhow,
I can't wait to hear Hits Different at last later tonight.
I only watched Miss Americana for the first time a few months ago and the political elements of it felt so painfully shoehorned in it made me laugh. I remember thinking "The absolute audacity to pair political expression with a lukewarm album like Lover..." Marina vibes.
In 2019-2020, it was a very... trendy time to be outspokenly political online. Taylor actually doesn't take huge risks when it comes to her public perception, which is another reason why she waited so long to even open up, ran everything by her publicist, etc. It's funny how she hasn't been overly vocal since then, either.
I'm not trying to shit on her, my fave can be problematic, too (!!!!!)... I just think it's comical how Swifties in particular have a way of caping for absolutely everything questionable Taylor does. The private jets are swept deeply under the rug by now, and it isn't always rooted in misogyny to use the word 'calculated' to describe her. (She's a mastermind, right? So we're just using synonyms at this point. You could say the same thing about Ed Sheeran.)
Like it or not, she's hanging around people who make a lot of ~interesting~ choices, like Matty and Phoebe, so ya know... I'm not shocked to see the discourse.
Stream Hit Different, besties!
In 2019-2020, it was a very... trendy time to be outspokenly political online. Taylor actually doesn't take huge risks when it comes to her public perception, which is another reason why she waited so long to even open up, ran everything by her publicist, etc. It's funny how she hasn't been overly vocal since then, either.
I'm not trying to shit on her, my fave can be problematic, too (!!!!!)... I just think it's comical how Swifties in particular have a way of caping for absolutely everything questionable Taylor does. The private jets are swept deeply under the rug by now, and it isn't always rooted in misogyny to use the word 'calculated' to describe her. (She's a mastermind, right? So we're just using synonyms at this point. You could say the same thing about Ed Sheeran.)
Like it or not, she's hanging around people who make a lot of ~interesting~ choices, like Matty and Phoebe, so ya know... I'm not shocked to see the discourse.
Stream Hit Different, besties!
Thank you for correcting me!! That literally must have passed me by in the whirlwind that was social media at that time. I appreciate it.
He/They
Wait...
What's Phoebe done? Feel free to PM if it's off topic
The best thing anyone can do re: Matty Healy is just ignore him.
he/him
Nn if something happened that I missed, whatever, but putting Phoebe on the same wavelength as Matty feels a bit misguided at best when as far as I'm aware her "worst" trait is being considered Cringe Online and/or having an annoying fanbase
he/him
I think/hope this is a Tom Hiddleston situation, a big flashy relationship that generates big PR to shift the narrative on from Joe.
he/him
Duck reaction