The 00s Emo/Pop Rock Rate | Winner Revealed! | Page 10 | The Popjustice Forum

The 00s Emo/Pop Rock Rate | Winner Revealed!

Discussion in 'Charts, rates etc' started by fatyoshi, Apr 16, 2020.

  1. Ah those damned compilations. I had no time for these at the time, yet my high school best friend suddenly getting into post-hardcore thanks to them made me change my mind a little bit. I've revisited a few covers these past few years. The early ones were probably the best, but it all comes down to the songs picked, and whether the bands actually had the range to pull them off. Unsurprisingly, it was rarely the case nn.

    I'm surprised Our Last Night, aka the post-hardcore turned Karaoke bar band, wasn't brought up yet. Also, if there wasn't a media limit, my post would be entirely comprised of AFI's covers. They always nail them.

    What are your favorite covers done by scene bands?

    What cover do you think a scene band could slay?

    Well, I wish Our Last Night would stop making so many redundant and unnecessary covers, and Issues would take their place instead. The latter covering some neosoul classics by adding heavier elements could totally work. I'll have to think a little about this one.

    Which pop fave do you want to see do a pop-punk/scene cover?

    Obvious answer, but I'd love to hear Halsey cover a recent Bring Me The Horizon song. Drown would be perfect isn't it?

    Have you ever done a cover, yourself?

    I haven't but one random day in 2011, I got the idea of a Rhodes piano centric cover of The Sleeping's You'll Be A Corpse Before Your Time in the key of D# instead of A#. I've finally got a keyboard but still can't sing for shit so... Perhaps I'll do it a decade from now. @ me in 2030​
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  2. Scene adjacent but I've always been a fan of Enter Shikari's random covers:

    I'm looking at the Punk Goes tracklistings on Wikipedia, and whew there were some interesting choices. Katy Perry covered by Attack! Attack! is... something I had repressed from my memory. I remember loving Sara Bareilles by Four Year Strong and Michelle Branch by Yellowcard too.

    I'm also feeling nolstagic for the superior Umbrella cover I used to play a lot in middle school.

    Four Year Strong's own cover album is an interesting listen too, as well as New Found Glory's ones I suppose.
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  3. Okay I'm almost done spamming! Vanessa Carlton must have had a strong impact on the scene considering the amount of bands who have covered her breakout hit.

    Time to order some Vans, get an Eastpak backpack, and paint my nails black for college.
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  4. Our Last Night’s cover of Justin Bieber’s ‘Sorry’ is definitely a fave as well, thanks for the reminder @Petit nain des Îles!

    Ps. I second a Halsey cover of ‘Drown’.
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  5. The deadline is tomorrow. I hope everybody still coming is about done.

    As previously mentioned, while the deadline is tomorrow y'all will have until I wake up on the 21st in my time zone (EDT). I'll not accept anything after that unless someone asks for another small extension soon.

    Might try to get out one more bonus post later today but this is no guarantee. I'm hoping that me posting this will make me move my ass. If not feel free to drag me xx.
  6. By popular demand x2

    The deadline will be extended for the final time through the weekend. The new deadline is Monday the 25th. Once the clock hits midnight in my time zone (EDT) on that date, I won't take anything else so I can start rolling out results.

    Gonna try to work out some bonus posts in the mean time. Feel free to share some of your fave or not fave emo bops in the mean time xx.​
  7. Good evening, the final deadline is approaching fast. Chop chop to those that remain.

    For now have a bonus post.

    Bonus Post #5: Experimentation/New Sounds in the Scene (Scene Listeners Aren't Shit)

    This topic has been rattling around in my head (with whatever other mess that bounces around in there) but hasn't come to fruition because I lack motivation. With me doing a revisit to a lot of full albums from scene artists (in the rate and not) in addition to the deadline extension, I figured it was time to move my ass and get posting.

    Today, I'd like to get into the average 00s scene listener and their fixation on the past in addition to inability or refusal to cope with even the slightest bit of change (whether that's a sound shift, a lineup change, or otherwise). I'm gonna be completely real for a minute when I say that this scene isn't one that serves ambition frequently. More often than not we get more of the same and whatever changes do show up are of the incremental variety. Even still, these changes are frequently met with an absolute mess in terms of fanbase reaction. I've set aside some examples to highlight a few of the times rate bands either attempted to switch things up (or things changed because of other circumstances) and how that turned out for them.

    Spoiler alert, usually Not Well.


    Let's begin with +44. It's 2005/2006, blink-182's status is unknown. Tom Delonge is off hunting UFOs and starting his own project, Mark Hoppus and Travis Barker started their own band. What could have possibly went wrong?

    This is one of the more baffling examples in terms of middling or negative reaction. +44's album worth of material doesn't sound that far off from what blink-182 was working on with their Untitled album before the hiatus. Sure they get a bit more into some of the post-punk leanings and there's some electronic flourishes but this isn't an earth shattering change. It really just serves blink-182 (of the time) minus Tom. If you were to ask me personally, this is the most palatable any blink-182 project has ever been and it's mostly in part to the lack of Tom's whale calling. Others felt differently. Once touring wrapped up for the first album progress started on a second but it never came to be. +44 left as soon as they showed up and haven't done anything since.

    Moving on, I'll get into one that I actually experienced as a fan while it happened.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    This one stings a bitsy. After the release of Almost Here in 2005, The Academy Is... looked to be the next band from the scene to reach broader appeal. With opening slot placements, promotion, and other general support from Pete Wentz/the rest of Fall Out Boy it was easy to see why.

    After a turbulent writing period (pretty sure William lost his lyrics on a plane and had to start completely fresh), their sophomore release Santi dropped in 2007. Featuring production from Butch Walker, Santi saw the band taking on a more arena rock angle to their sound. At times the instrumentation sounded more along the lines of alternative rock or even approaches indie moreso than the pop-punk/pop-rock of their other work. Whether this is for the best depends on you but the reaction was definitely a bit mixed. There wasn't a ton of new fans gained to make up for things and it felt like a sidestep more than anything else.

    After the disappointing performance of Santi, there was a quick turn around with the band's third and final album Fast Times at Barrington High dropping a little over a year later in 2008 with a poppier focus. This one definitely felt like a reaction to both the reception to Santi and the rise of bands like We the Kings or All Time Low in the scene. This was a first since the band had felt like they were doing their own thing up until this point. Unfortunately, there was once again a bit of a backlash, this time to the poppier sound (as if a majority of these bands aren't highly pop adjacent to begin with dddddd). Fast Times ended up not doing much better than Santi (at least in a lot of markets) in spite of any of the promotion/push going on at the time.

    After this there wasn't much more from the band. They released an EP in 2009 (this felt like a mix of their second and third album), toured with Kiss in 2010 (????????), and started a fourth full length after that but it never came together before the band broke up.

    I know different fans have different preferences and I'm not saying the same fans were complaining the whole time from release to release but it was definitely a thing to experience over the years. As someone who was a bit disappointed after the arguable regression on Fast Times it felt like the band couldn't win with the varied portions of its fanbase.

    Let's move on again.


    Underoath was one of the heavier bands of the rate at the time of the track they have featured but for awhile they continued to develop those elements. It wasn't a huge issue (there were detractors but never in huge amounts) until Disambiguation. The mixture of their heaviest (and best, but let me not get into that right now) album to date in addition to the departure of long time drummer/vocalist Aaron Spencer was just too much for some fans. Disambiguation saw a muted album release and touring period before the band eventually broke up. (Until they later reformed releasing... whatever the fuck they're doing now)

    I don't want to be messy/mean but there's clearly a pattern to be drawn here. These stans are Trash xx.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Let me wrap up this slightly more substantive first part of this post with All Time Low. They faced this foolery not only once but twice. Unlike rate peer The Academy Is... this wasn't a backlash of two separate kinds. All Time Low had two polarizing eras that saw similar allegations of "selling out" or "going pop" (which again, scream @ the concept of them being not pop to start) among other criticisms. The gag of it all...

    Dirty Work released in 2011 and didn't have the greatest first impression to put it lightly. That album art (one of the worst by a rate artist?) and lead single I Feel Like Dancin' made sure of that. Once you got past that, this wasn't anything too different from what All Time Low had been doing up until this point. Must be worms on the brain.

    Years later after damage control and some other generally safe (I mean safer than this music already is) eras, All Time Low found themselves in a similar situation. After signing with prior scene giant Fueled by Ramen the band released Last Young Renegade in 2017. This release sees All Time Low trying new things like channeling Halsey with the low effort concept framing, collaborating with icons Tegan and Sara, or adding some more electronic instrumentation/flourishes to their tried and true pop rock sound. This one was definitely more of a switch-up than Dirty Work was in my opinion but it kinda flew under the radar without major backlash because it didn't have anything as strikingly bad as I Feel Like Dancin'.

    Personally as someone on the outside who is hit or miss with All Time Low, Dirty Laundry was the first song of theirs that interested me in years and it looks like it will stay that way for awhile. After the release of this album the band toured for awhile and went quiet until they released Wake Up, Sunshine this year which is More of the Same for All Time Low. I'm so bored.


    That's just some of the examples I could've used in this post. Again I didn't want to have it go on for five years and I was already being messy making this post with how it is now. I'll do a follow-up to highlight other ~polarizing releases from bands in the rate that I didn't cover here as a part 2 to this post but I'll just list them.​
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  8. Also not to quadruple post but there are now 48 hours until the deadline.

    Somebody post something/start drama/drag me to get some activity in here before I wake up.

    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  9. I think experimentation and I get wartime flashbacks to Pretty. Odd. May God have mercy on us all.
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  10. O Disambiguation deserved better, and it's a shame they'll never go back to that sound to expand on it. One of my favorite albums of all time. I'm still whelmed by their return, despite being happy that they're reaching new heights in terms of success. I've heard they were supposed to have Bring Me The Horizon cowrite and produce their latest album, and I think it would've rejuvenated them instead of the hit or miss Skillet / Breaking Benjamin / Linkin Park and industrial rock hybrid we got.

    I'm less familiar with the others. I haven't heard the +44 album in more than a decade, but I did give Dirty Work a listen for the first time a few months back and... I was pleasantly surprised? Sure, it has a few horrid songs with questionable lyrics but overall it didn't feel like the betrayal or sell-out album their fanbase made it out to be. Don't Panic remains my favorite album though, they just went all out on this one.

    To stay in that theme, there are a few other albums I want to mention, but there's a chance @The Hot Rock might post about them later so my post might end up being redundant nn.
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  11. I hope the host doesn't mind invading this thread with an artist spotlight. But damn! Covid and this thread has really inspired to go back to my emo faves. Despite Intwine being a rockband of international fame (Dutch / Turkey and several eastern European countries) I never see them mentioned: Intwine.

    For me they wrote the best emo song of all-time called 'Happy'. And perhaps for a more avid emorock a song that is lyrically a bit too on the nose, but for me it helped me so much. The lyrics portray a growth from loneliness/depression that turn into revenge of the sweet kind and actually uplifting by the end. Here are two excerpts of the lyrics:

    I hope you don't feel just like me
    I hope you're happy
    Don't feel just like me


    I hope you don't feel just like me
    Fuck I hope you feel much worse than me
    Maybe not so happy
    Not so happy, yeah, not so happy, yeah
    Not so happy, welcome to my world


    There is another very powerful song by them, which I will put under a spoilerwarning as it deals with some very heavy stuff.

    Their song Way Out deals with suicide. During my times of suicidal thoughts there were moments that several negative thoughts and feelings build-up quickly and put me into a zone of a chaotic mindstate. The middle-8 of this song is exactly that. Slowly building up into an eventual wall of sound. Just like the feelings that after a build-up seems to suddenly submerge you. A song that despite reminding me of suicide helped me heal.

  12. Popping back in for that previously mentioned follow up on experimentation/new sounds/polarizing releases from bands in the rate. I'm gonna just list them out, mostly.


    AFI - Shifted from the hardcore punk of their earliest releases to the sounds on Sing the Sorrow and decemberunderground. There was further shifts later. Can't speak too much in regards to the reaction but obviously any of the fans that were miffed got swarmed out by the new fans. Sing the Sorrow and decemberunderground were the biggest eras for the band.

    Alkaline Trio - Another band that doesn't seem to have changed too much other than sanding down some of the abrasiveness over time but you know how fans can react... As an outsider, Agony & Irony and This Addiction seem to be the sore spots among fans.

    Armor for Sleep - Not much of a sound change so much as a change in general framing. Their third release Smile for Them was the first one without a concept to it (if you strain your eyes there probably can be one) and it had a pretty negative reception from fans.

    Boys Like Girls - Went from the generic 00s pop rock of the debut to some Bon Jovi serving mess on the second album and country tinged pop on the third???

    The Cab - Took the boy band with members playing instruments vibes and just went in on that further on Symphony Soldier.

    Flyleaf - Don't have experience with this myself but I'm sure the vocalist swap between the second and third albums had some detractors.

    Gym Class Heroes - The general increase of a pop focus in their work from release to release. Kinda came to a head with Stereo Hearts.

    Hawthorne Heights - After the death of guitarist/vocalist Casey Calvert the band carried on in a pretty different way for awhile starting with their third album. Not wanting to replace Casey, for a few albums/years the band didn't have any screaming on their new albums or in shows. Eventually they worked their way back in at some point but fans have been fixated on the first two albums. The band has done countless anniversary tours/sets for those releases.

    Mayday Parade - The loss of Jason Lancaster as a vocalist and songwriter made some fans go feral. (Let me just say, Good Riddance.) The second album had a pretty bad reaction and the others have been mostly mixed since.

    Midtown - I'm sure there was some blowback when Midtown went from the light hearted pop-punk of the first two albums to the general moodiness of Forget What You Know. And to think that after that album, Midtown broke up and Gabe went on to form Cobra Starship. Muffy sis, the whiplash...

    Motion City Soundtrack - Most of their albums have fans and detractors among the fanbase but I wanted to highlight Go. Go feels like Motion City Soundtrack with toned down synths through an indie rock framing. It came at the perfect intersection of time with me moving on from this scene and trying new things. A lot of fans weren't having it and their following/final album served damage control.

    Say Anything - People at large seem to be wild about ...Is a Real Boy and that's about it.

    Sing it Loud - Tried inserting some country pop elements into their second album. It flopped hard enough for the band to breakup. ":("

    Taking Back Sunday - I could probably mention any album beyond the debut for this artist. Some of the albums have their fans but generally I think this is one of the most nostalgia burdened artists in the rate. I feel like they've been touring on Tell All Your Friends sets on and off for years now...

    VersaEmerge - An interesting one as we never officially got all of the material involved. For their second album Another Atmosphere, VersaEmerge took on changes in sound (much more electronic) and name (to Versa) all at once. The album never saw release (I'm not sure if it was finished or not) and the only thing we have today is the songs that were dropped or leaked.
  13. From that era, another left turn that stood out was Say Hello To Sunshine by Finch. They moved out from the emo pop punk sound of their debut to something much weirder and darker, alienating most of a fanbase which, much like the rest of the scene, wasn't open to experimentation. The thing is it's not like they completely switched gears. They just showed immense growth by expanding their sound, distinguishing themselves from the bands they were lumped with, and proudly displaying the Faith No More / Mike Patton, The Dillinger Escape Plan, and other more out there influences. The single below is one of the mellowest and safest songs.

    This album basically killed any hype they had, and since then, their career has been... uh.. a struggle. Breaking up twice (a third time behind the scenes), scrapping two albums along the way despite demos for both leaking, trying to find a balance between their poppier sound and their least accessible side to please everyone, and especially the clamor of fans constantly giving attention to their debut and nothing else. Sometimes, I think they should've changed their name because their fans didn't deserve them at all, but then I'm grateful they carried on without giving a damn about them and just stuck to their guns. No official announcement has been made yet, but their Instagram page shows that they once again reunited and have been working on new stuff for the past year. Imagine how tired we are.gif but seriously, I do hope they manage to put out another album.

    Another album that comes to mind is A City By The Light Divided by Thursday. Now that I think about it, the second half of their career fits as I still see people complain about Dave Fridmann's production and how it killed any excitement about the songs. I still think they're the band that, along with Thrice, successfully distanced themselves from the scene the best, incorporating post-rock and post-punk influences and more synths in a natural manner. People acted like the changes were sudden when in reality they were hinted at on Full Collapse and War All The Time, but no one was ready for that conversation yet.

    Out of their later albums, this is the one I highlight as, judging from what I've read over the years or by their post-reunion setlists, it feels like a good chunk of their fanbase stopped caring about them right there. Nostalgia isn't necessarily a blessing.

    I would also highlight Lift A Sail by Yellowcard, but it was released ~a decade later than the rest of the albums mentioned, and I might bring it up later in another conversation instead.
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  14. There are exactly 24 hours left, babes. Get moving.

  15. Just seen that Underoath have opened up a Twitch channel where they're going in depth about certain albums and streaming videogames. They, along with the former drummer, talked about O Disambiguation on this episode.

    Scratch that, there are some glitches and muted parts so here's the youtube link:

    @The Hot Rock
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
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  16. Thanks for the promo <3
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  17. 11.5 hours left, we're closing soon.
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  18. I Will try to get the scores in.
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  19. Funny story. You talk about Underoath getting some backlash from their fans over Disambiguation... well, I can say, that was when the broader metal community started liking them again. Go figure.

    I didn't really mention this in my extra submissions, because I figured it was too outside the bounds, but it does give me a chance to talk about the 2000's metalcore scene, which did often have quite the overlap with scene music, and with the more "traditional" metal community that I ended up being enmeshed in. They once fought, yet now the two thrive in their own separate circles. It's strange, in a way - there are two communities now, essentially, that call themselves "metalheads", yet barely ever interact any more.

    When I were a lad, just being weaned off emo/scene by a steady diet of symphonic metal, the enemy du jour in the metal community was the melodic metalcore style that Underoath played, largely because it got lumped into the same circles as more traditional or extreme metal when it shared little musically or culturally with those scenes. (Less so, now that it doesn't have the hype and relentless marketing push it once did, and people can separate the albums from that and look at the music for what it is.) The thing is, that movement was sort of caught in between two stalls, and the streams ended up splitting, so to speak. Those who liked the catchy poppy choruses moved onto a lighter pop-punk influenced breed of metalcore, with the melodic death metal elements heavily de-emphasized. Meanwhile, those who just wanted heavy riffs and massive thug breakdowns moved on to deathcore, or straight-up beatdown hardcore like Hatebreed. And for those who wanted something artier, they generally either moved onto djent, or the experimental metallic hardcore/mathcore scene of Converge and the like. The same thing happened as happens with every other musical trend - the big dogs survive, often changing their style to adapt to the times, but the second-stringers disappear or get relegated back underground.

    Nobody seems to exemplify that dual nature, to me, more than Underoath - they ended up trapped between the two, in my view. And the thing is, Underoath came in for a particular amount of stick because they'd already made another drastic style shift before their move into the mainstream. Before that, they were one metalcore band that was actually quite respected in underground metal circles, thanks to their earlier work with Dallas Taylor on lead vocals and a relatively limited presence from Aaron Gillespie - particularly their second album, Cries of the Past. Granted, I haven't yet heard Cries of the Past in full, but I do like what I've sampled. It's certainly not the Underoath I'm used to: it's really more akin to a melodeath/melodic black metal hybrid with some prominent synths in there, with almost an early Dimmu Borgir or even Emperor vibe. Quite a shift to make, but then again, I suppose that's what happens when basically the whole band except for Aaron Gillespie quits in the period spanning The Changing of Times and They're Only Chasing Safety.

    A sample of ye olde Underoath.

    Anyway, our angle was, their more popular albums were a sell-out move, and Disambiguation was welcomed as a return to a heavier sound, with a fresh new angle influenced by industrial and sludge metal and even post-rock. Yet fan reception seems to have been more muted, as @The Hot Rock and @Petit nain des Îles both mentioned. See what I mean about the divide between communities?

    Now, metalheads have a reputation for not liking change. And indeed, though I think this is overblown by outsiders, there definitely is an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude among a lot of bands' fans. (Hey, Motorhead never needed to change their sound!) It's a delicate balancing act, and those changes that are best received are usually those who can broaden and add complexity to their sound, yet still retain their stylistic and genre core. And really? I think Underoath are one of the most interesting cases of how multiple fan mentalities can interact.
  20. Final warning, y'all have 3 hours to get your ballots into my inbox if you haven't already. That way I can get this popping off tomorrow when I wake up.

    Please hurry, she's hungry for more results.
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