Discussion in 'Charts, rates etc' started by Animalia, Apr 10, 2017.
Seeing all this love for The Little Mermaid is so nice.
I'm ready for more losses from Lion King!
Not me having a social life on a weekend for the first time ever.
But was I really busy?
Or just putting off eliminating someone’s favourite film?
5 Points: @Ironheade
Sorry Ironheade, but you’re the first unlucky soul to see their favourite Disney film fall. It’s a tad ironic that the good people of a music forum seem to have so little love for the two films that focus most on that medium, but I guess those infamous genre wars rear their ugly head again as both Fantasias fall before the competition really starts. On an unrelated note, no matter how many times I’ve had to throughout the course of this rate, I still can’t read or type the word Fantasia without thinking of that terrible PS2 launch title Fantavision. Anyway, There’s not much I can say about the overarching concept that we didn’t already cover in the sequel’s elimination teebs – it’s a series of weird and wonderful animated shorts set to classical music. The original takes a much simpler approach to the idea though; there’s no flip-flopping between art styles and obviously, being positively prehistoric, it doesn’t have any of those awkward half-computer-animation shenanigans either. It’s just two hours of traditional, beautiful 2D Disney animation. Oh yes, you read that right. At two hours and five minutes, Fantasia is the longest Disney animation to date. Getting through it in one sitting is an Avatar-esque test of endurance and willpower. But is it worth it? That depends on how much you enjoy dancing hippos and aggressive racism. I KID, I KID. Thankfully the racism in question (a horribly caricatured African American centaur polishing the hooves of her white masters – yikes) was removed from any and all releases post-1970. They kept the dangerously young-looking female centaurs bathing topless though. Baby steps, Disney. Baby steps.
Enough of that though – on to the good stuff! And there’s lots of it. I think, across the board, I much prefer the music used in Fantasia over that in the 2000 edition: Bach’s Toccata & Fugue, Tchaikovsky’s Nutcracker Suite and of course, Night on Bald Mountain/Ave Maria; they’re all so climactic and evocative that it’s impossible not to get even a little bit swept up in the drama of it all, even if you’re not a classical music stan. Huh, I wonder if there’s a ClassicalJustice forum somewhere out there, running their own Disney rate with Fantasia as the runaway winner. The real darkest timeline. Music aside, the accompanying animations are all pretty damn great too – most of them suffer from the same problem as the film as a whole, in that they’re stretched out a wee bitsy too long and I kinda find myself losing interest and waiting for the next one to start – but they’re full of personality and colour, and each one is technically executed perfectly. Also dinosaurs always have been and always will be cool as HECK and I won’t hear a word otherwise. Unless you’re talking about the Disney film, in which case drag ha.
Obviously you can’t talk about Fantasia without mentioning the two most iconic segments. Hell, two of the most iconic scenes in Disney’s entire filmography. The Sorcerer’s Apprentice has to one of the most well-known, most heavily referenced visuals in animation herstory, right? I mean, the opening credits of the critically acclaimed, sales-record-breaking video game classic Simon the Sorcerer II is a parody of Mickey’s broomstick debacle. Let me live okay I love those games. The Sorcerer’s Apprentice was actually responsible for the entire Fantasia movie though; it was originally created as a short film to reintroduce a freshly redesigned Mickey Mouse to the public, but when costs started rocketing higher than they knew they could make back from it, the concept snowballed into the two-hour long epic (no I won’t let that go!!) we see today. And to this day, there’s a good chance that whenever you see Mickey, he’ll be wearing that red robe and wizard’s hat. Name me a more iconic outfit. I’ll wait.
Last, but certainly not least, it’s Him. The Big Bad himself. The one, the only – CHERNABOG. Don't let his pathetic excuse for a boss fight in Kingdom Hearts fool you, this guy ain’t messing around. The Night On Bald Mountain sequence depicts the eternal battle between good and evil, the dichotomy between heaven and hell and all the grotesque, shambling demons that walk the space between. The whole thing is loud, dark and downright fucking scary – apparently Disney still receive written complaints every year saying Chernabog and his evil minions scared their kids. The scene was even removed completely from the original VHS release in response to the criticisms. Wusses, the lotta ‘em.
Fantasia is a lot of things. It’s brave. It’s grand. It’s beautiful. It’s creepy. It’s TOO DAMN LONG. But for sixty years it remained relevant enough to warrant a sequel, and now almost twenty more years since then, it’s still an iconic cult classic and a real, defining moment in film history. It did that.
This like is given only for quality of write-up. My avatar is most displeased. Seven days.
I have no words for it, really - it's pure art, probably one of the most crazily ambitious films in history, and a perfect example of how traditional animation should be done exactly right. I feel like the film could have wrecked the studio and Walt could have died penniless, but he would have been happy, knowing that he could create something like this. There is not a single moment that is less than a joy to watch. And, naturally, A̸͖͕̰̞̖̯ͅL̟ͅL ̝̱͎̘̹̤̮H҉A͖͔̠I̛̩L̥̘ ̯̲̱M̲͈̥̼͇̣͞I͚G̛͔H̜̭̖̤̮̗T̶͓̯̣̯̺Y͞ C̶͍̙H̸̫̰͙̱̲E̥͉̹̲̗R̼̫͎͍͓̯͔N̢͖͖A̛̳̗ͅB̖͙̠O͙̟G.̙͈̞͔͕ ͉̭̙
(Yes, I knew about Sunflower the centaur. Never saw it though, always had the trimmed edition, which is definitely for the best.)
I have a lot of memories of watching Fantasia growing up because my grandad had the VHS and it was one of the things I would watch whenever I was visiting my grandparents. The Sorcerer's Apprentice is iconic.
You might’ve noticed that Fantasia was tied at #23…
Which means someone else is losing their favourite film…
5 Points: @alanmr
So, uh, I’m gonna go ahead and chalk this one down to some kind of reverse recency bias and assume that the only reason this is happening is that everyone other than my bb alanmr felt the film was too new to warrant giving it points over their childhood faves. Because otherwise, this is even more of an embarrassing mess than it already is. I know that kalonite almost threw Moana a point as well, but decided against it at the last minute and it was all very courtneyactyouvemadethewrongdecision.gif, but whatever. Just let it be known that this result is in no way representative of the quality of the film itself, because Moana is fucking incredible and can stand proudly alongside Disney’s absolute best… anywhere but here. Without further ado, let’s have a wee talk about just why our Polynesian princess deserved so much better than this.
That’s a good place to start actually – just the fact that Moana is Polynesian is reason enough to celebrate. Like, the snow wasn’t the only blindingly white thing about Frozen, and after its monumental success it would’ve been so easy for Disney to let its patchy track record for representation take another hit and come out with a half-baked clone to appease the masses, but thank god they’re smarter than that (what’s a Frozen 2 I dunno never heard of it). Instead, what we got as the next quote-unquote “Princess flick” was a glorious, respectful tribute to a culture overflowing with life, tradition, beauty and mythology, yet still under-represented in the media. An almost-exclusively Polynesian cast (the notable exception being Alan Tudyk, but he’s an icon and a legend so he gets a pass); Opetaia Foe’i overseeing the soundtrack; the rooting of every plot point and in-universe piece of lore in real, traditional local mythology; the insistence of the directors that they spend time on a remote Pacific island to immersive themselves in the lives of its people before working on the film; Disney’s dedication to ensuring Moana delivered a successful, accurate celebration of Polynesian culture shines through in every aspect of the film and it’s really incredible to see. So, the foundations were all there, primed and ready for a truly amazing modern classic. And then the animation department wandered in.
Moana is hands down the best-looking 3D Disney film. Every single scene in every single environment practically pulsates with life, colour and energy; maintaining an exciting, dynamic aesthetic for a film that takes place mostly at sea can’t have been easy, but goddamn they nailed it. The water really is the star of the show though, along with Moana’s hair. Luxuriously flowing queens. Special shout-out to the spectral manta ray that literally made me audibly gasp in the cinema when it turned up, too – easily one of my favourite Disney visuals of all time. But the visuals are only half the battle, aren’t they? What’s the point in taking the time to create a cinematic masterpiece if there’s no heart or soul put into the story or characters? Well it’s a good thing Moana offers up a metric shit ton of both. Lemme just say that I am living for this on-going trend of Disney completely abandoning awkward, forced romances in their lead characters. I mean, we haven’t really seen that since Tangled, and in my opinion objectively each film since then has benefitted hugely from focussing on other sorts of relationships; family, friends, inflatable robots, loveable glitches, buddy cops, and in Moana’s case – her relationship with herself. It’s a film about self-affirmation, finding and embracing your own identity regardless of the obstacles in your way. Sure it sounds clichéd to hell and back on paper and it is kind of your typical “protagonist going on a journey to find something but what they really find is themselves” trope, but the film deals with it in such a mature, well thought-out way that it doesn’t feel reductive or predictable.
Moana herself does most of the heavy lifting, succeeding where I think Tiana low-key failed as a strong-willed, independent force of powerful womanhood. Don’t get me wrong, Maui is great too and adds a lot of bravado and upbeat humour to the film, but teebs I feel like the film would’ve been just as great as a one-woman show. Well, one-woman and her pet chicken. I love love love the fact that they set up the typical super-cute Disney sidekick pig in the beginning of the movie, then totally abandon it for an ugly, stupid chicken. Yet another example of Moana noticing the stereotypes and clichés of princess movies, politely nodding as she walks past, then leaping on to her handmade raft and sailing off into the great unknown to give us a fresh, exciting new take on the format. I feel like that analogy didn’t work as well as I’d hoped, but I’m well aware of the length of this post and doubt anyone will still be reading it by this point anyway so lemme just say that y’all (including myself) fucked UP by rating this so low. Except you, alanmr. You’re amazing.
Moana is an amazing movie. How Far I'll Go/I Am Moana is an amazing song. Moana is an amazing character. This film blew me away and became an instant classic, so of course it gets my #1. Amazing!
Any more ties at #23?
And I presume that all movies that placed above #23 have a score of >5 and thus have multiple voters?
Moana is really pretty. As a story it didn't do that much for me, but I guess it had to compete with loads of movies I watched as a child
Nope, on to another two-way tie at #21 next!
Yep! The scores and numbers of voters for each film start rocketing upwards pretty soon.
So happy to have 5/5 matches! (and no, this was not one of my film picks...I already gave away my 11, so let me at least keep something semi-secret)
Moana is pretty damn good, certainly better than the two films that preceded it anyway. What struck me was that, for the first time since Tangled, I couldn't pick out any obvious glaring flaws that hurt an otherwise well-done movie, even if it wasn't always "special" - the whole thing basically works, and the complete lack of a romantic lead or a real villain is a welcome surprise. Oh, and between this and Finding Dory, I think we can call 2016 a banner year for water animation. Well done to Disney's second Polynesian movie - Lasseter, you might just want to let Clements and Musker direct everything now, between this and The Princess and the Frog. (Now to work out how to cross Moana over with Lilo and Stitch...)
Spoiler: I. AM. DISGUSTED.
@Animalia beautiful writeup, I couldn't put it better myself, I second every single word of that.
Meanwhile, this is the forum attempting to get some taste:
Moana was good for me but not great. I Am Moana is a stand out moment. The relationship with her grandmother, discovering that her ancestors were voyagers, and the song itself all excellent. The animations was really great throughout especially the water and Moana herself.
The shiny song is the worst comic villian/side kick song in Disney. The coconut pirates were lame. The ending fizzled out and lacked tension.
This is why it didn't make my top 5. It potentially would've made my top 10 though, so I think you are at fault for only giving us 5 films @Animalia. Sorry gurl.
It still wouldn't make my Top 5 today after having now seen it, but Moana is a great film. Though I do have some of the same arguments I see on this page.
Okay, just had another look at that film list and fuck me was it hard to narrow it down to top 10, possibly even harder than top 5. But yes, Moana would have made it in.
I would've been fine with just a top 4, to be honest. My #5 pick was just kind of meh to me.
Have any of yours gone out yet?
Not yet! Quite a reversal of fortune compared to how I'm doing in @DJHazey 's countdown.
Then again I didn't make any oddball selections here; 3/5 of my picks still have one or more songs remaining in the rate too.
Separate names with a comma.