Discussion in 'Charts, rates etc' started by Animalia, Apr 10, 2017.
RIP Mama Odie you deserved better and I love you!
How I feel about this elimination:
If you try to frogify me I will use my last few seconds of humanity to eliminate your 11 out of spite x
Don't feel bad! Frogs are cool li'l guys. And you can still type!
Live footage of me hacking @Animalia's computer to make sure my 11 wins the rate after the frogification is complete:
EDIT: Well, fuck, I didn't see John Travolta in the background. This is what I get for trying to be funny on shitty connection. Somebody save me!
Dig a Little Deeper never quite goes off as much as it should, but it definitely shouldn't be out this early.
Whoops sorry there was only one elimination last night, life got the way, the bastard. If it helps...
We'll be losing the first 11 today. Hold on to your faves!
I know my 11 is cruising into the Top 5. It has to.
I have an uneasy feeling that it could be mine. Please reassure me @Animalia
Well, it certainly won't be my 11...
If it's my 11, I'm ragequitting the thread.
I'd be really surprised if it's mine.
Surely if your 11 didn't make the top 50 then it shouldn't come as a surprise... you kinda knew when you picked it right?
Mine has male vocals, so... help?
Oh does it now? I have some ideas about the song...
I'm certain the 11 is mine (male vocals + jazz elements + people continually calling for it to leave). I'm about to go away for the weekend, so I'll just have to mourn when I get back.
Hmm... well, you'll have to wait until tonight to find out, because it's the second half of yet another tie!
Highest Score: 10 x2 (@alanmr, @Weslicious)
Lowest Score: 0 x1 (@send photo), 1 x1 (@HollyDunnSomething)
My Score: 7.5
Poor Pocahontas. I forgot about this one when I said we wouldn’t have to deal with any more racism, but again I think this is a similar situation to A Girl Worth Fighting For – it’s a song about racism, not necessarily a racist song. Or at least that was Disney’s intention, to show that the battle of prejudice rages on both sides, albeit for different reasons; the Englishmen seek war and dominance out of greed, wilful ignorance and hate, while the Native Americans are defending themselves from those oppressive invaders who won’t give them a chance to get to understand them. It’s not a bad concept on paper, but the execution is just a bit… haphazard in places. I can understand that the use of the word “savages” adds a great deal of emotional and moral weight to the song and helps reinforce the fact that the Native Americans are the victims here, but a racial slur is a racial slur, and having it repeated with such vigour throughout a kids’ film still presents an issue, despite arguably good intentions. Disney weren’t unaware of the song’s risky nature, either – several lines were censored at the last minute before the film hit theatres, but for some reason the DVD and the official soundtrack release used the original lines:
What can you expect from filthy little heathens, their whole disgusting race is like a curse
was changed to
What can you expect from filthy little heathens, here’s what you get when the races are diverse
Let’s go kill a few, men!
was changed to
Let’s go get a few men!
Dirty redskin devils, now we sound the drums of war!
was changed to
Dirty shrieking devils, now we sound the drums of war!
Eek. You don’t really notice how awful some of the lyrics are when you hear them in context. Of course they’re meant to be terrible, and they help to tell the story in the powerful, evocative way it should be told, but there’s always a line with these sorts of things, and Savages definitely treads it somewhat precariously.
Musically, however, I think it’s pretty fantastic. Part I is undeniably effective in setting the tone with its unrelenting, spitting hatred, but Part II is where it really shines – Pocahontas’ lines floating over the barrage of brutality as if she were some omnipotent goddess of peace presents the perfect contrast, and oh man, the “How loud are the drums of war?” line interpolating a melody from Colours of the Wind into the song so seamlessly? UGH, that’s proper genius song-writing right there. Basically, I think Savages does its job very well, but it does it in a way that can only be appreciated if you buy into the initial concept. It’s a risky game that I personally think paid off and presents the problem in a daring, complex, and mature way (for the most part), but I can totally understand those who take issue with it.
send photo lands on that side of the fence, throwing it a definite zero explaining: “I guess I can see what they were going for but I don’t think it was executed well.”, which is more than fair enough. kalonite recognises some moral evolution though: “And, we've come full circle from What Made the Red Man Red. It's nice to see that Disney listened, learned, and tried to redo. Sure, the plot of Pocahontas is just complete made up nonsense, but this song is a vast improvement.” Oh, you want made up nonsense? Here’s Sprockrooster. “Marina did it better.” Bish where? Tell ‘em constantino: “Marina wishes tbh. This gives me chills, such a profound message and only one I have grown to appreciate more as I’ve become more aware of the ways of the world around me.” I knew – I knew – going into this that Marina would be mentioned in the commentary for this song and y’all didn’t let me down. I love this stupid forum. Raichu calls the song “Pretty epic. Great use of drums and the I find the two-sided nature of it compelling.”, while MollieSwift21 finds a different highlight: “I love Judy's voice on the second part.”, and LKane agrees: “It is a great track to close the movie and for all the battle scene. And the Pocahontas intervention in the track is the best part!” Truth.
Reboot chucks it “Bonus points for that gorgeous colour palette.”, and eccentricsimply heaps on the praise: “The colors in these scenes are so beautiful, truly.” I actually forgot to mention it myself, but YES. I love when Disney use colour to absolute maximum effect in their animation. Also, the bit where the wind conjures the image of the great eagle above Pocahontas is stunning. Back to the song itself, DJHazey has a close connection to the issue being presented and isn’t sure if it was done quite right: “There's a lot wrong with this song that the film somehow got away with, but they were trying paint a picture that showed what happened. Being in a family who has had Native culture around me during my young life, calling them savages really strikes a chord but as you can see it went back n forth. In reality the only savages were the ones who landed on someone else's home and decided to make everyone second-class citizens. Fucked up. Luckily this song is really non-event for me and we can move on.” Almost! Before we move on, we have a glowing review from high-scorer alanmr: “I did not expect to give my first non-Frozen-related 10 of the rate to Pocahontas, and yet here we are. Savages is just exquisite, a pulse-pounding build up that distills the 'everyone is a hero to themselves' message in a rock-solid manner that culminates on a beautiful payoff that inches Dinsey just a little bit further on the progressive path by having Pocahontas save John Smith instead, all while having some of the best lyrics of the rate, what with 'They’re not like you and me, which means they must be evil' and 'They’re different from us, which means they can’t be trusted' perfectly encapsulating the heart of the conflict in arresting manner. Amazing.”
I thought Savages would bow out a lot earlier, to be honest.
Goodbye! Look, I get the message, but did they really have to make it so stupidly on-the-nose? ("They're not like you and me, which means they must be evil"? Jesus... "elated or gassy" probably beats it in the Bad Lyrics from Disney stakes, though.) Then again, that sort of describes Pocahontas in general.
You know what, I hate Pocahontas completely aside from its animation. There, I said it.
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