The Disney Classics Rate (The End.) | Page 87 | The Popjustice Forum

The Disney Classics Rate (The End.)

Discussion in 'Charts, rates etc' started by Animalia, Apr 10, 2017.

  1. If it's the final nail in Princess and the Frog's coffin then I'm going to lose all my fucks and sanity! The meltdown will be embarrassing and messy.
     
    ohnostalgia and DJHazey like this.
  2. I have a bad feeling I'm getting dragged.
     
    GimmeWork, send photo and Mina like this.
  3. Oh well, it was nice while it lasted.

















    By which I mean my respect for you guys.
































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    Heaven’s Light / Hellfire

    6.71

    Highest Score: 11 x3 (@Ironheade, @Subwaykid, @kalonite), 10 x5 (@Mina, @Mushroom, @ephemeralartery, @Conan, @Animalia)
    Lowest Score: 1.5 x1 (@Lost Boy), 3 x3 (@constantino, @DJHazey, @HollyDunnSomething)
    My Score: 10


    What.

    A.

    Mess.


    This would have been my second choice for my 11. It’s mature, complex and intelligent both musically and thematically, so of course you lot were gonna do it wrong but this is – genuinely – just stupid. To the high scorers above, thank you. Thank you for having the good taste, attention span and general decency required to appreciate this masterpiece in all its dark, twisted majesty. I can only apologise for the absolute disgrace that is the rest of this forum.

    Where do I even start? I mean, The Hunchback of Notre Dame is a pretty bleak, heavy film at the best of times, but the Heaven’s Light/Hellfire scene is undoubtedly its thematic climax. First, Quasimodo delivers us a hopelessly romantic, longing prayer for “Heaven’s Light” – the glow he sees around those sharing mutual love and respect – knowing all too well that it will probably never be answered. It’s a heartbreakingly optimistic mixture of naivety and jealousy, but never in a way that implies Quasimodo would wish harm upon those more fortunate than himself. It’s a pious innocence and hopefulness that flutters gently on the breeze, fading out into the joyous main fanfare of the film before being swiftly engulfed by the fires of hell and mercilessly incinerated before your eyes. Enter, Frollo. Hellfire opens with the Archdeacon’s procession chanting the Confiteor – a Latin prayer of confession used in the Catholic church – before the judge embarks on a journey into the deepest, darkest recesses of his own self-loathing. Ironically praying to the Virgin Mary (Maria), he curses himself for lusting over a gypsy woman, blaming the higher powers for his weakness: “It’s not my fault, if in God’s plan, he made the devil so much stronger than a man”. All the while, hooded figures (representing his conscience?) appear from the shadows chanting mea culpa, “my fault” in Latin, and eventually envelop him in flames and drag him into the fireplace, foreshadowing his fiery fate.

    Once told about Esmeralda’s escape, and thus his loss of control of the situation, Frollo’s solemn distress descends into unbridled, violent rage as he vows to burn down the entire city of Paris just to find her. He surrenders to the tormenting desire to sin, forsaking his religion in the pursuit of blasphemous pleasure; shadowy cross-bearing phantoms rise from the dark, forcing him to cower in a corner and beg for God to have mercy upon both Esmeralda and himself as the spirits recite the Kyrie eleison, a prayer that literally translates as “Lord, have mercy”. He then proclaims one final time that Esmeralda will be his, or she will burn, before the shadows finally consume him and he collapses in the shape of a crucifix on the ground and the scene ends.

    FUCKING HELL. THIS IS A DISNEY FILM.

    The love and hope represented by "Heaven's Light" descending into the primal, sinful lust of "Hellfire" creates the most powerful, contrasting imagery I can think of in any Disney film; I love that they weren't afraid to push the religious and sexual aspects of the story to their absolute limits. The film’s director Kirk Wise knew this song required a more powerful visual sequence than anything they had done since Fantasia, and oh wow they did that. He was terrified he’d have to beg the higher-ups for permission and/or forgiveness for the heavy religious tone and sexual themes, but they loved it – the only change made was shortly before release, when the animators were forced to go back and make sure Esmeralda’s fiery apparition was very clearly fully-clothed in every frame, as the ambiguity was endangering the film’s G rating. And thank God they allowed it; Hellfire has become one of the most celebrated, critically analysed pieces of music in film history in countless communities, with the unfortunate exception of this fucking forum because apparently some of you are completely oblivious to thematic nuance and depth. I hope you’re happy.

    DJHazey continues to resent actual, measurable talent because his faves can’t find any: “Hellfire is actually slightly better but neither of these songs do anything for me." Poor it. I’m disappointed to see constantino as a low scorer though – c’mon sis, you’re better than that: “I understand what they were going for with this and I respect it in relation to the film but musically they are both absolute dirge.” Not when your Björk commentary was filled with Joanna Newsom plugs though. Daniel!’s only here for half the song, but at least it’s the right half: “KEEP ‘Heaven’s Light’ but ‘Hellfire’ ain’t bad.”, but ever the contrarian, here’s Sprockrooster: “Team Heaven's Light. Loving the church bells.” LKane enjoys a bit of Quasi’s warbling too: “A beautiful ballad, but I have to say that I like the version in Spanish much more. The way the actor sings is very moving for me.” Reboot asks the obvious: “Frollo’s a bit of a douche, isn’t he? ‘If I can’t have her, then no-one can.’ Dude…” He’s far beyond that stage, I think. 2014 aims for a different query though: “Campest villain ever? But I wouldn't cross him.” Not when Scar and Ratcliffe are around, but you reminded me I used to follow a tumblr blog called sassygayfrollo that was just memes about him touching the scarf because it was made of the finest cashmere or some shit nn.

    Raichu has taste and therefore enjoys both sides of the battle: “Man, these Hunchback songs get me right in the feels. Another excellent Tom Hulce vocal performance, another gorgeous melody. The Hellfire side of this is extremely powerful. Watching and listening to it, I’m struck by how complex Frollo is.” Complex is definitely one word for it. MollieSwift21 calls Hellfire “Such a sinister scene. Be mine or you will burn is so demonic. The outro to the song is highlight.” That final note is everything. eccentricsimply hits the nail on the head: “What a beautiful contrast of songs. I must say Hellfire is what makes it, though. Frollo's obsession is frightening, but this moment of lunacy of his is one of the highlights of this movie.”, while Mina reminisces upon simpler times: “The Hellfire portion is possibly the darkest Disney song. The blatant sexual overtones totally went over my head when I was 8.” Subwaykid has earned my eternal love and respect for giving this his 11: “This creepy, freaky, Mike Pence OPUS.” (kiiiiiiiiii) “The most terrifying thing Disney has ever done? This was horrifying why were children allowed to watch this?” Well apparently the meaning went right over the heads of a seemingly fairly intelligent group of adults anyway so.

    kalonite gets the final word on his 11, partly because it’s a paragraph in itself, but mostly to soften the blow of eliminating this so he might not leave me: “I will forever be mad if the brilliance of Hellfire is brought down by being attached to Heaven's Light on the soundtrack. It's just perfection. The way that they juxtapose Frollo's blatant justifications of his actions and twisted interpretations of his faith with the latin source – which is constantly undermining his words – is so clever. The sheer complexity of the vocabulary is incredible. It's so fitting that he's selfishly praying to the Virgin Mary throughout, reflecting Esmeralda's selfless plea to her in God Help the Outcasts. Then it builds and builds, breaks for the paranoid second verse, and just explodes at the end. This is a very different kind of villain song – Frollo is tortured and emotional and utterly weak in his one big moment. That's what sets it apart from the likes of Poor Unfortunate Souls and Be Prepared for me – it properly humanises Frollo and really focusses in on the “Who is the monster and who is the man?” theme of the movie. It's really important the Frollo IS the man. There's just so much going on here, and it was really the only choice for my 11. Oh, yeah. Heaven's Light's cute too.”


    Here's me throwing y'all's trash taste into the fire.


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    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  4. Mvnl

    Mvnl Staff Member

    Noooo, that is SO wrong.
     
    LKane, Mina and Animalia like this.
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    What is wrong with all of you.
     
  6. I'M SORRY
     
    DJHazey, send photo and Mina like this.
  7. Thanks for the amazing write-up @Animalia , but know your like was given in bad conscience. Because


    A̗̣̳̘̼̱̎̀a̹̺͔̼̒̽ͤͣa̸͎̬͂ͯ̍ͣ͛A̙̗͂̒͆́Ḁ̊̆͂̄̌̾͝ͅå̝̩̠̣̤̜̦̋͜A̧̿̃͂ͬͭĄ͚͍͍̫̯̲̾ͮa̢ͤ̆a̘̯͆̊̀͂́ͤ͢a̡͔͙̝̪̳̾̐́͂̈A̤͔̞ͥÂ̸̹̺̱̱̩ͅḁ̓̇a̛̭͍̼̦̞̓̾̈̈́̔ͦ̎A͚A̡̖͉̙̹̩ͮ̇̊̐͒å̵̝͓̖͖̔̏̒́̍̊a̹͎̻͎͉̻ͦ͗A̞̻͇̞͜A̫͎̝̱͎͌̿̿̏A̝̪̝̞͙͝ă͍͊͗́a̛͔͚̺̗̹̟A͕̗̭͚̜̗̺ͮA̷̪̦̗ͧ͒̆a͖̓̒̄̃͛a̩͍̺ͣA̘̗̜̳͈̝A̝̬͔̣͓̰ͮ͊ͪ̏͆ͩ

    I̹̿ ̥̬̳͎̊̈́͆̋͋̒Ḧ͓̰̭̐͟ͅÁ̍̉̍̄ͨ̉͏̜̜T̢̜̼̃̋̇ͮ̓ͤͧE̸̙̗͙̞̾ͅͅ ̗̘ͤ͐ͦͥ̔ͨͪY͈̯̭̤̿ͭ̔͒O̦̪̯̪͕̤͖͟U͙̙̩̘̖̱̬ͧ͝ ͍̦̮̬̯̮͒͌̓̚ͅẦ͖̯̣͓̜̈͢L̪͓̠͎̳̮̓̊͌̾̓̏͞Ḻ͍͔͎̠̭̗͂͐́̓̐́ͣ͢

    K̜͚͖̄͂Î͇̯͓̹̮͒ͫ̅̀S̤ͮͮ̂̓̀̑̎S̕ ͇̰̦̻̙̫̮̄̏ͯ̋ͣͣ͌M̫̩̺͇͙̓̓ͫͩY̛̪͖̞͋̊̎ ̫̹̲͖̱͎̮̂̂̾͛̋ͣH͉͛̒̍͆̋̔ͯ͟E̩L̩̦͎̑͒́̑L̲̤̭̣̒ͧ̄͗̄͆̚F͇͇̳͊̎̋I͖̗̻̳̫̜̔͂͛ͥ̈͡R̺̞̳̝̳̓ͩE̞̖̽̽̐́,̴̻ͪ̇ ̸̘Y̺̙̩͔̘̱̺Ōͤ̒͗̌̏̚U͖ ̫͓̹̝̜̭ͯ̾̀ͅS͂͊ͩͪ̽̑҉O̴͚ͦͪͮͧNͣ̎S̖̖̹̜̒ͯ͐̀̽̍̽ ̳̗͚̘ͦ̍̈̿͒́͟O̰̞̯̱̜ͥ̄̏͌͑F̝̘̟̻̩ͨ̅̄ͅ ̗̿͒̑͟Ạ̇ͣ͝ ͖͉̲̍͡M͕O̤̮̊T͛̓̓ͬ̽̌҉̣̮̠͉̭̭H͇̆̔̋͐ͬE̘̲̱͒̂ͪR̪̾̽LĔ̺̖̮̗̬̦͎ͫ̓̌͑̂͘Sͪ͆̔S̡̲̜͕͔̻͙͌ ͍̗͓̯̂͜G͈̣̞ͭ̅͗ͤ̽̔O̩̝̣̞̤̎̿̀ͅA̝͈ͧ͋̽T̘͓̖̗ͯ̎
     
  8. What a travesty.
     
    Animalia and Ironheade like this.
  9. I... but... whaaaaaa??? I seriously thought that was considered - universally - to be one of the best sequences, and songs in any Disney movie ever made. It certainly has been in every other community I've ever talked about Disney in. Not a single exception. Every critic points it out, too. Even on fucking Tumblr, where they won't even acknowledge that Disney existed prior to The Little Mermaid and generally stick to fellating the Lasseter-era CG films. Even that much bad taste recognizes how amazing the animation in the "Hellfire" sequence is and how powerful the visuals - and the song - are.

    OH BUT WHERE THE BOP THOUGH. OUR TASTE IS YUUUUUUUUGE. WE HAVE THE BEST TASTE. THE BEST TASTE. END THE RATE NOW YOU SWINES.

    *huff* *huff* *huff* No, I'm legit pissed the hell off about this. Can you tell?
     
  10. Can we just start all over again?

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  11. In case y'all thought I was exaggerating: 1*/ 2 / 3, for a start. The Wikipedia page for the song is actually a pretty great read too.

    Strangely enough, no mention of fun bops or cute talking animals to be seen. Huh.

    * Let's Have A Threesome: Religion, Lust and the Superego is actually the title of my autobiography.
     
    GimmeWork, Ironheade and Mina like this.
  12. You know what, they deserve to be named & shamed.

    5s:

    MamaHazey
    aniraz
    Robsolete
    Daniel!
    Mikl C

    4s:

    send photo
    GimmeWork
    Alouder98
    funkyg
    iheartpoptarts
    ohnostalgia
    Epic Chocolat


    I know, right? Honestly, I'm extra pissed because y'all didn't even have the courtesy to have this song be the one to land on a 6.66 average.
     
  13. Okay... So I know I'm probably not welcome around here anymore but... Shoulda woulda coulda but I was in such a rush to get my scores done I didn't give some of the less familiar songs a real chance. Hellfire isn't anywhere near as bad as I thought it was, and deserved higher than what I gave it, but I don't like Heaven's Light.
     
    constantino, DJHazey, aniraz and 4 others like this.
  14. To all the voters, I've wronged by giving this a 4...
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    I have seen the error of my ways and will know better next time....

    Although if there's a next time and you all throw out ANYTHING from Princess And The Frog before getting rid of all the racist songs like you all did this time.. well you'll need Heaven's Light for sure.
     
    alanmr, DJHazey, kalonite and 4 others like this.
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    DJHazey, Animalia and LKane like this.
  16. I guess I just don't give a shit about the film and that spilled over into the scores.
     
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  18. I HATE THIS BUT I LOVE THE GIF SO HAVE A LIKE ANYWAY
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    send photo, Dangerous Maknae and Mina like this.

  19. Okay but this list is so iconic.
     
    Robsolete, DJHazey, Mikl C and 2 others like this.
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