Discussion in 'TV + Film' started by silkandskin, Oct 18, 2018.
That scene is SO weird! It read ok on paper but the way they did it just seemed so odd.
I will not respond with an essay, I will not respond with an essay, I will not respond with an essay.
So I was thinking about Rob Zombie's Halloween a lot after watching Scream 5 because Ghostface reminded me a lot of Zombie's incarnation of Michael Myers (in the second half of that movie.) Both teams kind of had the same goal—reinvent and modernise their villains in a way that differentiates them from what has come before. And while I can't say either is bad, I personally find them both a bit too out-of-place in their respective franchises.
Both movies basically took the same approach to this goal: make the killer faster than ever, stronger than ever, more brutal than ever.
When I think of Ghostface, I think of Casey hiding behind the wall, and a glimpse of black slinking through the smoke. I think of Cici investigating a noise while the killer slips in the house behind her. I think of Gale moving through the soundproof studio. I think of Sarah Darling surrounded by ghost face outfits and we just know that one of them isn't empty... More than anything, I think of the killer being hit, tripped, kicked, almost defeated only to vanish when a character turns their back for two seconds.
Scream is a game of cat and mouse and by removing some of these key building blocks of tension the movie ends up with short kills with little fight and while some are really effective (Judy's death, and especially Tara's first attack, which is the best opener since the original) it does feel inherently un-Scream as it feels like it's missing a key ingredient.
It's exactly the problem I have with Rob Zombie's Halloween. When I think back to the original, it's all stalking in the shadows. Plenty of gore, but the movie's really about the tension, about Laurie being followed, about Michael watching Tommy from his car, about the torturously prolonged scene in the ghost outfit when we're just waiting for her to realise...
But the scene that has always stood out to me is when Laurie is running away and she can outrun Michael no problem, but there's nowhere to go... She's even surrounded by people, but no one will help. She's trapped on this huge street and she can physically outrun Michael, but he's still closing in, this sinisterly slow walk... The duality of how escapable he seems, yet how inevitable it feels that he will catch up... It's so effectively claustrophobic and tension-building.
But then in Rob Zombie's Halloween, Michael's fast and he's strong and... I mean that scene where he appears, kills two people, walks through a fucking glass door and drags Laurie away takes like 45 seconds or something! It's not that a fast, strong, unstoppable killing machine can't be scary... Just doesn't feel very Halloween.
But anyway what I think is most interesting about how these two movies handled this is that fact that Halloween 2018 basically had the same goal... They also needed to update and modernise Michael, and clearly wanted to up the gore and raise the stakes. And they totally fucking nailed it.
Instead of changing the villain's physicality like Scream or Zombie's Halloween did, they largely kept it the same. He's the same, calm killer who walks everywhere like he's got all the time in the world. But where once he walked in the shadows, now he walks out in the open, and where once the street was empty, now it's bursting with people celebrating Halloween.
I remember watching 2018 for the first time and being astounded at how scary they made Michael without really compromising any aspect of the character. The scene of him going from house to house quickly and indiscriminately killing accomplishes what Rob Zombie's Halloween was going for, but does it in a way that feels natural to the character. And there are so many scenes that don't just capture the tension of the original, but totally outdo it—Alison trapped in the car with Michael in particular is a wonderful sequence which of course conjures up the masterful suspense of Scream 2.
I tried to stop myself, I could not.
Rob Zombie’s first Halloween outing is alright, I enjoy it for most part, and it’s certainly one if the better big horror remakes (Nightmare on Elm Street being the absolute worst). That said, I am someone who swears and curses daily, its in my vocabulary, but some of the language in that film just unnecessary, its shoehorned in at every opportunity, and then some…
Laurie 2.0 was just an obnoxious cow. How we were supposed to root for her was anybody's guess.
Yeah I rewatched it recently and noticed that. It was unnecessary and forced in to the point that it kind of made the movie feel childish, it was like a 12-year-old whose biggest thrill in life is saying fuck and not facing any consequences.
Anyway despite my criticisms I'll say I don't hate the 2007 movie. Honestly the best word for my feelings is just... Appreciation. Even if it didn't land perfectly, I'm glad they embraced it as their own version and made something unique. I would prefer a mediocre but original take over a stellar remake that just repeats what we've already seen.
I also think if you just ignore the last half, it's pretty strong. They did a good job humanizing young Michael and it's quite an emotional watch, although a bit rushed especially around his mom's suicide, but then I suppose you're limited when you've got a whole movie to remake and you've not made it past the original opening yet.
I actually thought the ghost sheet outfit scene in the remake was pretty good. When we first saw the sheet and glasses we who have seen the original are supposed to think that's Michael having just offed the randy boyfriend down in the kitchen, but then out of nowhere comes Michael and kills him. It was one of the better scares in this version.
What's weird is I didn't even know there was a remake until a couple of years ago when reading about the franchise on Wiki and seeing the timelines and chronology and which films are related to which. In 2007 I was 28 and very much going to the cinema regularly as I had a Cineworld Unlimited card. I don't know how it passed me by - I saw the A Nightmare On Elm Street remake when that came out a few years later. It's so weird how this one - and a sequel - both completely escaped me. Maybe I did see the posters and shunned it as the original is a proper classic and the first horror film I ever saw (aged about 6, no wonder I had nightmares for weeks afterwards!). Is the sequel worth a watch?
Also, I know it's not real, but how does Michael know who Laurie is? He's not seen her in 15 years and she was a baby then. And given Dr Loomis didn't even know it seems unrealistic (I know, this is Halloween where a man is shot multiple times and is ok, every time) that Michael would know. I assume this was a retcon in the original Halloween II as nothing is mentioned in the original about them being related.
Good point, totally forgot about that scene, but you're right, that's a pretty clever twist on what the audience expect.
Both the Friday and Nightmare remakes kind of passed me by. I knew about them but to this day haven't seen them! Here's hoping they finally sort something out and reboot Friday soon. I wouldn't mind a TV series actually.
Of the big three franchises, the only one to get a good remake was Friday the 13th. Although, if we include Texas Chainsaw, then that easily has the best remake.
Agreed. I hated the Friday remake the first time I saw it but repeat views have been very kind to it. Nightmare and Halloween are both so bad but I may prefer Nightmare because of Katie Cassidy.
The only part that remotely works in Zombie’s Halloween is the back third, and that’s…because it was cribbing from much better source material.
I don’t need Michael: Year Zero, I just don’t. The second you try and theorise why evil is evil you lose every bit of mystique and fear that that character possesses (see also: Hannibal Rising, Leatherface, etc etc.)
Plus, and I know that this was intended due to his aesthetic, but it’s just such an ugly film, filled with ugly characters.
I detest the Friday remake. For all their faults, the Friday movies have such fun supporting characters but I hate everyone in that movie.
To me it shows a fundamental lack of understanding why the source material was so special.
I agree, tho Jared and Danielle are fine. Amanda has very little to work with but "say hi to mommy - IN HELL" is unforgivable.
I love Amanda Righetti - her character in The Mentalist was my favourite, but they didn’t give her enough to do in this.
I've never yet watched Zombie's Halloweens, they sit staring at me from my complete set.
The Friday remake, great start, then a bit rushed for how many charcters we have, then running around some tunnels, no thank you. Give me one decent woodlands or cabin based chase please.
The Nightmake remake, horrible.
Texas Chainsaw and Hills Have Eyes are the best of the remake bunch, by a lot of mesures (Hills especailly).
I watched Halloween 2018, 2021 and Rob Zombies 2007 version recently.
I actually thought Rob Zombies movie was the best out all of those.
2021’s movie was boring and unrealistic.
I absolutely despise Rob's Halloween films. He took everything that made the original special for me and did the opposite. I don't need it to be exactly the same but he completely missed the mark for me. At least he has some artistic vision though even if I don't like it which isn't something I can say for Resurrection which is just a soulless, studio cash-grab.
I think I started to watch the Friday 13th remake and got bored. Maybe I'll try again.
Texas Chainsaw '03 > Friday > Child's Play > Elm Street > Halloween(s) >>>>>>>> Prom Night
I don't mind the Elm Street remake. It's not a series I'm precious about (only 1-3 plus bits of 4 are keepers), I viewed it as an 'other tale from Elm St' thing. That diner opening was pretty good as well.
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