Discussion in 'TV + Film' started by Shockbox, Oct 23, 2014.
I went in fully spoiled and still enjoyed it immensely.
I loved every second of it, honestly. Got a free mini poster for the movie with my showing and splurged like I usually do for comic films and got the combo that comes with a collectible cup and popcorn bucket. Asked if I could swap the little figurine that came with the cup for Wanda instead of America and was denied.
Sam Raimi is one of my favorite directors. I feel like he kind of just gets superhero movies? And having the horror element added was great. So many parts of it reminded me of Evil Dead and I loved that as well. The way Wanda took out the Illuminati, what a queen. My showing was early (3pm) so it wasn't totally full but still a good amount of people there and the audience reactions to Captain Carter, Reed, and Charles was great.
This is what I was worried about. It was equally a Doctor Strange movie as much as a Wanda movie. They found the balance and delivered! Then the cherry on top was fan service GALORE!!!! As much as I want a new Dr Strange and Scarlet Witch movie…
Spoiler: I’m GAGGED!!!
Professor X rolling in his iconic chair, the X-Men theme music, SEEING Professor X’s psychic powers, depicting the Astral plane perfectly…where is my MCU X-Men movie???!!
My biggest complaint is that
Wanda's ending here was so clunky. I get it wasn't HER film but obviously she is not dead as there was a flash of red and no sad mourning of her death- Plus we know that Vision with memories intact is just... Out there floating around still and she doesn't know it. That has to tie back in at some point.
And I don't feel like she's redeemed at the end of this as much as I want her to be. Yes, She was corrupted by the Darkhold. But she brutally murdered people in this. And as we even see with Strange- even with the Darkhold destroyed, it's corruption lingers. And I am very curious how she will find that redemption, if ever. She will always be a fringe anti-hero... But this villainized her in ways that I don't know where they'll go with next. Of course, What's next is probably Vision's return.
And ugh. It'll probably be years until she shows up in anything again. And I hate that.
Other than that, it was a thoroughly good time, and very enjoyable.
Well...that was a lot of fun and I loved it
Had fun watching this, but the script was really, really weak. Elisabeth and Rachel are absolute stars, Raimi is great, but the character development for every single character was atrocious.
I was thoroughly entertained throughout the whole film, with Wanda being the absolute highlight as I went in hoping for and expecting however...
The way that Wanda was instantly evil left much to be desired. After we had just had a massive period of character development in Wandavision, there was nothing to show us how corrupted she had become by the Darkhold or to follow on the character from that story. She was a completely different person to what we had seen before, and maybe while that could have been intentional it felt sloppy and disconnected. That being said, I absolutely adored watching her murder The Illuminati and letting her show off her insane power. There is no way she is dead as I heard that Elizabeth Olsen signed another 7 year contract with Marvel, but I'm sure that the next time we will see her will be 3/4 years down the line from now, which is sad.
I did really enjoy this. It definitely could have been a tighter package, but I am excited to watch again.
I thought the action and Wanda herself were amazing. The Illuminati fight was a peak: she broke them with brute force. The horror elements when she was around were also great.
The writing though... everything felt so utterly rushed at times. Wanda suddenly outgunned by spirits that Christine just fended off easily earlier. America not getting any development. Strange suddenly being some father figure after he acted an ass in No Way Home.
Things just had no time to breathe, which is such a stark contrast to how the Westview conflict was built, for example. The Darkhold can be stabbed? Ok. The multiverse feeling so tiny was also a hoot.
It was a bit odd none of the Illuminati had any idea Wanda could be so powerful?Even Charles seemed calmed at the prospect of her coming to them all guns blazing. But I guess it is one the many examples of the script being careless and just moving to the next thing.
Do we think they will keep John Krasinski as Reed? I guess the multiverse gives them option to recast anyone at any point, and they did not even try to show his powers, but I would love it if they kept him on. Though I am also on the fence on them hiring only big celebs. I love him or Charlize, but like with Harry Styles being casted, I feel it minimizes the characters a bit.
I also feel none of this feels like it is leading to an overarching conflict, and it makes it feel a bit redundant. To be self-contained, it should have been better, I believe.
I think this is the earliest I've ever seen a MCU film, I have so many comments but the main one at the moment is:
How little 'risk' there is in everything now. Wandavision set Wanda up for her to be this 'big bad' not that it was ever confirmed, but it looked like she was going to be the proper antagonist for a long time, her and the darkhold, only for them to kill it all in one film. What happens with her now. The same with Dr. Strange using it, it goes from a sort of huge evil object that you shouldn't mess with to a train ticket through different realities
Reading some of the initial plot leaks, I think the alleged original opening would have worked better. Our universe's Mordo is hunting her down, she kills him but is immediately remorseful about it before turning back to the Darkhold, which is speaking to her. At least something like this would have shown us how Wanda was on her way from point A to point B. I just think it's crazy how the writer expects us to believe the Wanda from WandaVision would immediately be okay with murdering America, corrupted or not.
Or, why didn't they have Wanda helping out Doctor Strange and America and do a twist, revealing corrupted Wanda as the big bad all along. I think that would have been more effective than Wanda chasing them, Strange stalling her, Wanda chasing them, Strange stalling her etc etc.
I stand by the fact that all the Wanda scenes, taken out of context of the poorly written plot, were awesome though. The Wanda vs Illuminati fight was a tad short, but the gasps in the cinema when Black Bolt and Mr Fantastic got their heads popped was amazing.
So what was the earlier leaked plot? I never checked it. Spoiler tag, of course.
There's two that I've read. Again, I don't know if there's any ounce of truth to the first one or whether it was just a very early plot for the film. I think these both leaked mid 2021.
Opens in a fiery burned forest. Mordo is hunting Wanda with a magical bow. Wanda chops off his head
Wong is the sorcerer supreme
Then we have a multiverse chase with Chavez, Wong and a variant classic looking Strange. They run away from an interdimensional demon and are en route to retrieve a book that will grant them a spell to defeat any evil. They get close but are impaled. Chavez takes Strange's dead body and multiverse hops to our main universe. When she is anxious and scared she can open multiverse portals and is the only person able to.
Back to our main timeline, Strange and Wong are at Palmer's wedding when Shuma-Gorath starts attacking NYC. He is trying to harvest America's power and was summoned by Wanda. Strange and Wong fight Shuma. People in cars die by being smashed. Wong and Strange are able to kill it by ripping its eye out.
Chavez meets them and takes them to Strange's dead body in an alleyway. Then they go to a pizza shop to calm Chavez down.
Strange starts having nightmares about dying with Wong. Chavez explains that they are not dreams, but real events happening in other realities. She also talks about how she is always on the run from some monster. Strange thinks Wanda can help.
Wanda threatens Strange and they go to Kamar Taj to protect Chavez. We are introduced to Rintrah.
Wanda kills lots of people and is able to capture Wong but Strange and Chavez escape to another universe.
Wanda can astral project herself to other universes but can't bring her body.
We see Strange and Chavez in an Iron Legion timeline as Strange is looking for help
Then they go to a timeline where Strange sacrificed himself to defeat Thanos. They go to the Sanctum where Mordo is the Sorcerer Supreme. He poisons Strange and Chavez. They wake up in a prison.
Mordo brings them to the rest of the Illuminati which is a multiverse team that consists of Monica Rambeau as Captain Marvel, Captain Carter, Balder the Brave, and Professor X as their leader.
The Illuminati debate on whether they or not to kill Strange because he is breaching the multiverse which is forbidden. Strange warns that Wanda is coming.
We then see Wanda from the Illuminati timeline with her kids but MCU Wanda possesses the variant. Kids are confused as Wanda just leaves to see the Illuminati.
Balder says Wanda is no match for them and Wanda just impales his body with magic. Xavier has his floating chair.
Monica and Carter are crushed by falling statues or thrown to a wall, can't remember which.
Palmer breaks Chavez out of prison as Wanda and Xavier fight. he tries to heal her but she snaps his neck.
Strange and Mordo fight but I can't remember how it ends
Palmer, Strange and Chavez go to an underground Sanctum running away from Wanda.
Wanda is blowing shit up as she gets close to them
They reach a locked door. Palmer is able to open it with help from her bracelet. This door opens to the multiverse and we see the book. They try to reach the book but Wanda grabs Chavez and throws Strange and Palmer to another timeline. It's a decimated NYC where Defender Strange is the ruler of the Sanctum.
At the Kamar Taj, sorcerers create a magic barrier to prevent Wanda from getting in. She enters the mind of a new weak sorcerer and breaks the spell, killing 95% of all sorcerers.
Wanda is now back at the Kumar Taj with Chavez and a sorcerer sacrifices herself to destroy the Darkhold. Wanda threatens Wong to tell her where she can find another Darkhold otherwise she will destroy existence. Wong informs her of a Darkhold up in the mountains in an unknown place.
They go to the castle where there are Darkhold demonic etching in the wall. Wanda now has Chavez's power and the Darkhold, and can now multiverse hop her physical self to her kids, and bring them to her universe.
Evil Wanda beats Good Wanda and she reaches her children from this timeline.
While this happens, Strange fights Defender Strange. Strange kills him by throwing Defender Strange out of a window and getting impaled on a fence.
Strange astral projects himself to his dead self in the main timeline. He walks like a zombie.
Then we have a scene at the Kamar Taj with a few survivors as Rintrah gives a speech about how Wong never gave up on them.
They make a trip to the Darkhold Castle. As they make the trip up there, Wong is thrown out of the castle but uses magic to save himself.
Strange whispers in Chavez's ear with his dead self. This embues Chavez with better control of her multiverse powers, and she punches Wanda in and out of different universes as Wanda punches her back to other universes.
The end of the filme is Wanda finally getting to her kids but she is so messed up and zombies looking that her kids cry as she comes to them.
Wanda blows up the Darkhold domain when she comes to her senses after seeing her kids frightened. We see her in the rubble, unclear if she lives or dies. Probably lives.
We have a dialogue with Chavez and Strange where she is happy Strange came back. Strange bows to Wong and they Train Chavez to hone her skills further.
Billy and Tommy are in the movie and ther are aged up at the end.
5 Distinct universes and a few weird ones. Illuminati timeline, Ruined NYC, Iron Legion, the multiverse itself, one that looks like the end of Loki, and a Darkhold Castle which takes place in the main timeline, but is located in an unknown place.
Post Credit is Strange getting corrupted and growing a third eye out of his head as Clea asks for help.
There's also this from a very reliable source, which is cool:
This was definitely a Wanda film rather than Doctor Strange. I am sad the story seemed to end so abruptly for Wanda... I really hope she isn't dead. She's lost everything and everyone and then just dies, it's not a great ending as a fan.
The horror elements were absolutely fantastic, they could have gone further but I think they were likely told to tone it down. The illuminati killing scene was just incredible.
I definitely think the beginning of the film was kind of stuck on after reshoots. It was bizarre. The pacing was off. It felt completely different to the rest of the film. Apparently America was meant to be introduced in No Way Home but was cut so maybe they had to reshoot to introduce the character in this film? I felt her character was weird and underwritten also. Such a convient plot point. Girl randomly shows up who can travel the multiverse... okay... I hope there's more to the story.
As a wider MCU issue I really am now starting to crave a bigger story for Phase 4. I think we all assumed it would be the multiverse stuff but every film seems to keep it contained to it's own story. I want to know where we're going with the stories and how they all link. There's A LOT of endings from the films and TVs show they need to wrap up or bring together somehow.
Overall I enjoyed the movie. But I didn’t like what they did with Wanda. It feels like Daenerys going mad all over again. I’m not here for the “woman loses everything and goes mad” trope honestly.
To people saying this movie destroyed Wandavisions arc, did they even see the last post-credit scene of wandavision and know what the Darkhold is? That's what it does. It used her pain to manipulate her and corrupt her.
The reflection scene….
Wanda and Gabriel collab when???
Of course. But ultimately it's still jarring to go from the end of WandaVision to the beginning of this movie, where Wanda is trying to kill America Chavez. We're constantly told about how the Darkhold corrupts those who read it, but we don't see the progression of corruption on Wanda and there's no sign of a remorse from her about anything. It feels like there's no WandaVision Wanda in there at all. She's just fully corrupt and evil from her first scene to the end. It's poor writing.
When can we speak freely about Dr. Strange? A lot of great points are being made and being lost in spoiler tags.
yeah I feel they should have given more cues as to what the a Darkhold was doing to her.
Show Wanda maybe going in and out of this evil path. But they left no room as she goes directly into villain mode from the first time we see her. It would have been better to see a gradual change.
I’m just getting ready to see Wanda in the Multiverse of Madness. Benedict Cumberbatch found irrelevant.
Separate names with a comma.