Troye Sivan - Something to Give Each Other

he/him
How did that segment of the community inspire a video
The entire motif of the song and video are centered around a cultural quirk that some men who have sex with men decide to huff what is essentially brain-killing paint thinner for the sole purpose of it tricking the sphincter into relaxing to make rough, aggressive anal sex both more comfortable and pleasurable. The rush being sung about is not about the beauty of the movement of dance.
 
It's doing my head in for her to bring up Sam Smith as some kind of gotcha response because the people who relentlessly drag Sam for daring to explore eroticism in their art while fat are almost certainly NOT the same people who are saying Troye's video could've done with a bit more body diversity and it's actually so disingenous to act as if these are even remotely comparable criticisms that prove some "damned if you do damned if you don't" point because one is a request for more body diversity broadly that is neither unreasonable nor impossible to achieve and the other is just straight up people attacking Sam for having the temerity to exist as a fat non-binary person expressing sexuality. These are not equivalent and she is not a rigorous thinker.
 
he/him
Yeah, Sam wasn’t even mentioned by the person she quoted nn. They said “twink” and she brought Sam up as a counter for pretty obvious reasons.

Kind of funny and ironic that the people responding to valid criticism are making this an even bigger thing by exposing their own biases while defending the right to be skinny and missing the point completely.
 
I started off kind of pseudo-mocking all of this yesterday but I'm actually kind of triggered by the whole thing, which doesn't happen to me often with online discourse. I knew it was the case deep down, but its shown me that even in the bubbles I exist in, when people are confronted with the topic of fatphobia it still isn't taken seriously. Even those who know better about these things just don't see fat people seriously, respectfully, ethically - or at all, honestly. I fucking hate it.

This isn't levelled at Troye, really, by the way. I'm more bothered by everyone's response to the backlash. Especially Charli. Really?

I have to check out of this, I think.
 
Yeah I was willing to laugh this off as a tad disappointing but unsurprising and fairly typical, but the fact that you can't even just joke about the overwhelming thinness without a bunch of people showing up to call you an unlovable ogre ruining their fun is too much. Like damn, we can't even joke about how much y'all hate us without that being a problem too?
 
he/him
Charli has a fundamental misunderstanding of what this discussion is. The people criticizing Sam are not the same people criticizing Troye. She’s looking at it as “artists always get criticized and can never win with y’all” instead of the community issue that this is. She is not a queer person and doesn’t understand the dynamics at play so she really needs to not speak over those people who are talking about it. It gets especially weird that she’s doing this when most of her fanbase, who pays her bills, are queer. Sometimes you’re not educated enough on something to speak on it and that’s okay, but don’t insert your opinion in that case.
 
Charli bringing up Sam just makes her look even more stupid nn. Like if you’re clued in enough to be aware of the criticism Sam has received, then you would also be aware that it’s rooted in something very different and was far more severe than the reasonable critiques that Troye and his video is getting. Just say you wanted to defend your friend from even the slightest criticism and stop trying to position this as some moral high ground. This “w-well actually I think we ALL receive unfair criticism” non-take as some kind of great equalizer is dumb. Sniff some poppers and sit down.
 
he/him
I started off kind of pseudo-mocking all of this yesterday but I'm actually kind of triggered by the whole thing, which doesn't happen to me often with online discourse. I knew it was the case deep down, but its shown me that even in the bubbles I exist in, when people are confronted with the topic of fatphobia it still isn't taken seriously. Even those who know better about these things just don't see fat people seriously, respectfully, ethically - or at all, honestly. I fucking hate it.

This isn't levelled at Troye, really, by the way. I'm more bothered by everyone's response to the backlash. Especially Charli. Really?

I have to check out of this, I think.
Yeah I was willing to laugh this off as a tad disappointing but unsurprising and fairly typical, but the fact that you can't even just joke about the overwhelming thinness without a bunch of people showing up to call you an unlovable ogre ruining their fun is too much. Like damn, we can't even joke about how much y'all hate us without that being a problem too?
Yeah honestly. This is a pop music forum so I felt inclined to share my thoughts on this topic, but the way this has escalated when it was originally a “twinks will be twinks” situation that was half joking around is so nasty. It wasn’t supposed to be this serious, but people continuously missing the point and reducing it to “you fatties are never happy” has made this exhausting. There’s nothing more to say if people won’t engage in good faith.
 
Also, is the album title a venerial disease reference?

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I’ve watched this a few times tonight with friends and we pretty much laughed our way through each viewing regarding how contrived and overly gay the video is… it’s a big surprise to see how it’s become such a sensitive subject!
 
The entire motif of the song and video are centered around a cultural quirk that some men who have sex with men decide to huff what is essentially brain-killing paint thinner for the sole purpose of it tricking the sphincter into relaxing to make rough, aggressive anal sex both more comfortable and pleasurable. The rush being sung about is not about the beauty of the movement of dance.
I am cackling that you had to spell this out like this ddd.
 
XY Magazine did this exact same visibility in the 90s and 2000s, hun. Yes, Troye is out there being unapologetically queer at a time when it is very important, but let’s not act like there’s a shortage of thin (mostly) white gay men in the media. People are picking at it because Troye himself positioned it as a moment to celebrate community, so of course people are going to call out that it doesn’t really include all of that community. Pointing out an obvious omission isn’t “doing the most”, it’s literally pointing out what is very plain to see.

You love replying to my posts dont you. Oh and stop with the hun, we are not huns.

First of all I haven't got an issue with body diversity. I'm just stating a fact that its a shame that Troye almost needs to be perfect because there is so little gay represntation in the world, which is why people on here are doing the most over body diversity.

There is so much straight representation that there isn't this need for every single popstar to check every single box of diversity. Its literally the point I'm making. I'm not attacking anyone for saying they wish their was more diversity body wise.

It's literally like if you have an opinion and don't immediatley agree with everyone on your, the pitchforks come out.
 
We are in a post-Drag Race going mainstream era where queer people can be seen weekly on TV in all shapes, ages, gender identities and ethnic backgrounds. Skinny white dudes dancing in a music video is not as revolutionary as it once was.

That said, the song is vapid and the video is equally as shallow so it doesn't bother me much. This song does not need to be a political statement. But the greater conversation is valid because the needle of what we consider a "big moment for visibility" has shifted. If you enjoy it for what it is that's fine. It's not outright "problematic," but if it feels antiquated to you, that is also fine to talk about.

I actually said music in my post. Drag Race is great, but its TV not music.

I also didn't say skinny white dudes dancing is revolutionary, but I think from most of the posts on here, a lot of users are thrilled at the fact Troye has made such a gay music video, especially at a time where lgbt rights are being questioned left, right and centre. If you don't think its such a big moment then that's fine, but clearly a lot of people do and I do. At the same time though, if its not such a big revolutionary moment, then why is it so important for the body diversity then? Surely if its a just another music video from an artist that isn't really impacting the world in anyway, why do we care so much then?

I'm not arguing with you by the way, its just an interesting discussion.
 
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