Westworld

[SHYGUY]

I just think it was too deceiving to propose a narrative that questions the power estructure of our society and even what it means to be human through the suffering and experiences of female characters (Dolores, Meave, Charlotte) who took back control and power through a fundamental change in their thought.... to end up giving prominence again to a white cis heterosexual man and end with one of the most 'powerful' women practically implying that he was the chosen one to lead humanity.

Especially after seasons where that same archetype of man was proposed as the 'evil' or the 'controller'. And not only that, on top of everything they choose to horn in an archetype of a character who has been used ad nauseam in entertainment media, the 'misfit' overwhelmed by his past, hunted by his macho actions in the military, the 'regular' man who fights against a world that funnily enough does not reject him or at least not in the same extent as to other people.

So that's my rant about Caleb and why it was so disappointing to end last season on that note.

 

[kermit_the_frog]

I just think it was too deceiving to propose a narrative that questions the power estructure of our society and even what it means to be human through the suffering and experiences of female characters (Dolores, Meave, Charlotte) who took back control and power through a fundamental change in their thought.... to end up giving prominence again to a white cis heterosexual man and end with one of the most 'powerful' women practically implying that he was the chosen one to lead humanity.

Especially after seasons where that same archetype of man was proposed as the 'evil' or the 'controller'. And not only that, on top of everything they choose to horn in an archetype of a character who has been used ad nauseam in entertainment media, the 'misfit' overwhelmed by his past, hunted by his macho actions in the military, the 'regular' man who fights against a world that funnily enough does not reject him or at least not in the same extent as to other people.

So that's my rant about Caleb and why it was so disappointing to end last season on that note.

I agree with all of this and yet… Caleb is REALLY STUPID and the show doesn’t even mask this, which makes me think, if the sort of core of the narrative has to be a pawn, it should probably be a white, cis heterosexual man.

Caleb is (was) actually a replacement for Teddy in that sense, isn’t he?

 

[SHYGUY]

I agree with all of this and yet… Caleb is REALLY STUPID and the show doesn’t even mask this, which makes me think, if the sort of core of the narrative has to be a pawn, it should probably be a white, cis heterosexual man.

Caleb is (was) actually a replacement for Teddy in that sense, isn’t he?

Hmm, interesting, maybe so, as you say Teddy was treated as a pawn to Dolores and the final strand to her 'past' life along with her father, pieces that pushed her to finally break free.

 

[kermit_the_frog]

Hmm, interesting, maybe so, as you say Teddy was treated as a pawn to Dolores and the final strand to her 'past' life along with her father, pieces that pushed her to finally break free.

I mean don’t get me wrong, he’s useless and boring and shouldn’t be a main character in the first place but… if that’s what they’ve written I understand casting him.

His wife and daughter were, in a three minute scene, involved in more peril, thrills and exciting television than he’s managed in two SEASONS! And, laughably, he was actually part of that in the cutaways with Maeve and his daughter and still barely registered. Almost legendary.

 

[johnoclock]

Spoiler

For what it's worth, Caleb's story is pretty much done and they passed the torch to his daughter.

 

[kermit_the_frog]

Spoiler

For what it's worth, Caleb's story is pretty much done and they passed the torch to his daughter.

I’m hoping you’ve somehow seen the whole season and this is true!

 

[johnoclock]

I’m hoping you’ve somehow seen the whole season and this is true!

No, just watching the regular episodes but

Spoiler

he's just being tortured by Hale now. Sure, he's part of the robot resistance but I think the focus has moved mostly to his daughter.

 

[Scaper]

No, just watchint the regular episodes but

Spoiler

he's just being tortured by Hale now. Sure, he's part of the robot resistance but I think the focus has moved mostly to his daughter.

Spoiler

They will surely want to reunite some version of Caleb with his daughter and Maeve at some point? I get the feeling him and Maeve are endgame.

 

[johnoclock]

Spoiler

His last transmission felt like goodbye to his daughter to me and I think our new duo will be Maeve and C who along with Christina/Dolores and Bernard will be our plot engines. Maybe a reunion at the end of the season or some sort of sacrifice to stop Hale.

But yeah it cannot be overstated how amazing Tessa Thompson chewing the scenery as the power drunk big bad of the season is. Did you see her sitting in that chair made out of humans that episode? Iconic, frankly. Being her furniture is what we deserve.

 

[drewsky]

I have no idea how this story gets stretched to a 5th season after tonight. I feel like we should be prepared for next week to be the end of the series.

Spoiler

I started getting inclinations a few episodes back it would lead to a Man in Black/Dolores showdown and it would be an inverse of S1 where this time she's freeing humans from host control.

 

[Scaper]

Ed Harris said in an interview there is one more season to go, which starts filming in April. The promo for the finale also says 'season finale' rather than series. I would think HBO would want to promote the end of the show properly. Having said that, everything at Warner Discovery is a mess at the moment so they could easily pull the plug.

I feel like the Sublime will play a role in whatever happens moving forward.

 

[CIOB]

Episode 7 was a bit of a dud in comparison with the last few, but I’m still on board for what’s coming in the last episode. The series deserves to go out on its own terms but I’m prepared for it to potentially end with the finale next week.

 

[dvno]

This last episode was a big cold shower for me. Once again they are killing all the black and interesting characters in succession, while re-centering the narrative on the psychopath from S1 that has shown zero character development on the show.
Let's see what they do for the last episode (I feel we're in a 'projected reality' - kind of like a Matrix - with Dolores / Teddy being 'softwares' inside it, maybe being 'beamed' from the Sublime? And then MiB objective is to destroy the Sublime on S5?) but I'm not very excited by what's to come.

 

[Osiris]

As much as I love Maeve and her story, the show has always been about Dolores vs MIB.

But judging by the season 4 & episode 8 trailers,

Spoiler

Halores is going to be reuploaded into a new host body. And there's another copy of Maeve too. Not sure about Bernard.

 

[Alphableat]

This season is dreadful.

 

[HorseTears]

So help me out here. I'm fully caught up up to the current episode, season 4, episode 7. [The current iteration of] Hale is actually a version of Delores that Delores herself created? Am I remembering that correctly?

 

[drewsky]

So help me out here. I'm fully caught up up to the current episode, season 4, episode 7. [The current iteration of] Hale is actually a version of Delores that Delores herself created? Am I remembering that correctly?

Yes, Delores duplicated her pearl and put it into a host version of Hale. She began to develop her own personality in the real world with Hale's family until Serac blew them up and Halores realized the original Delores' plan involved killing off copies of herself so she became vengeful.

 

[HorseTears]

So, current Hale isn't acting in Delores' original intent but has broken off with her own 'free will' and evil plans to help hosts ascend to some supreme way of life while killing off all humans? Or perhaps that's what we're led to believe, but Hale has been acting in the way Delores intended all along? This show's convoluted obfuscation can be so ridiculous. But, I stick around for the stellar production design, atmosphere and performances.

 

[drewsky]

I think this was a soft series finale, someone who allegedly worked on the show got fired and posted this long spoiler years ago about where the creators saw it ending and IF it's renewed, I definitely see it playing out the way they said...

Spoiler

Basically the show takes place even farther in the future after human extinction and hosts are running multiple simulations in an attempt to see what will bring back human civilization. Arnold was an AI trying to weed out the hosts incapable of bringing human life back, and Dolores was ultimately the one who could do it. I guess it ends with them trying to see if humans have fidelity/memory of previous civilization and people think that's how the S2 credit scene connects it all with William being tested by Emily

 

[HorseTears]

Did Hallmark Channel acquire this show mid-season? What a gooey episode. And, Lord, that dialogue feels like it's written by AI. But, of course, I'll be back for the next season.